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ebay buyer "lost" product, what would you do? IT HAS BEEN FOUND!

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i dont get this, so a person can just randomly claim that he never gets things and he'll always win in court. i mean, so the next time i buy stuff on ebay, i'll just put it in the closet, and claim that i never got it, so then i'll get a refund right? i mean based on what you guys are saying this is easily possible


Its a frustrating position to be in for both of you, im sure. It happened to me once and I still to this date think the buyer falsely claimed the package never came (even though I had delivery confirmation.) So now whenever I ship something out that's worth over $100 or so, I'll use a service that requires a written signature.

I dont know the legal aspect, perhaps one of the lawyers on here could help you out.
 
Originally posted by: Lucky
i dont get this, so a person can just randomly claim that he never gets things and he'll always win in court. i mean, so the next time i buy stuff on ebay, i'll just put it in the closet, and claim that i never got it, so then i'll get a refund right? i mean based on what you guys are saying this is easily possible


Its a frustrating position to be in for both of you, im sure. It happened to me once and I still to this date think the buyer falsely claimed the package never came (even though I had delivery confirmation.) So now whenever I ship something out that's worth over $100 or so, I'll use a service that requires a written signature.

I dont know the legal aspect, perhaps one of the lawyers on here could help you out.


i'm gonna put a giant disclaimer on all my auctions from now on.
 
you would go to court and lose.

he did everything he has to. he sent the item has a delivary confermation. i agree he was stupid and should have gotten insuarance.

But trying to take him to court would result with a lose. hopefully he has learned in the future to get insurance on any item over $100.
 
Originally posted by: hans007
i dont get this, so a person can just randomly claim that he never gets things and he'll always win in court. i mean, so the next time i buy stuff on ebay, i'll just put it in the closet, and claim that i never got it, so then i'll get a refund right? i mean based on what you guys are saying this is easily possible
Of course it is easily possible. That's part of what insurance is for. I feel for you. I really do. I think you are a great trader and I also believe you know what the right thing to do is.
 
Originally posted by: SirDante
What I'm hearing here is totally against what I normally hear in AT F/S. Basically it is the seller's responsibility until the buyer has the goods in his hands. Also it is the seller's responsibility to insure his product.

I feel bad for the poor guy. I'll assume he's innocent of any wrong-doing until proven otherwise. The seller's view on insurance is...

I feel sorry for him, too. But why should the shipper get shafted. He has confirmation of delivery. If the buyer does not secure his/her home, that is not his fault. I think the best course would be to hunt down and beat all mail thieves.

 
Originally posted by: Jfur
Originally posted by: SirDante
What I'm hearing here is totally against what I normally hear in AT F/S. Basically it is the seller's responsibility until the buyer has the goods in his hands. Also it is the seller's responsibility to insure his product.

I feel bad for the poor guy. I'll assume he's innocent of any wrong-doing until proven otherwise. The seller's view on insurance is...

I feel sorry for him, too. But why should the shipper get shafted. He has confirmation of delivery. If the buyer does not secure his/her home, that is not his fault. I think the best course would be to hunt down and beat all mail thieves.

yes theives suck
 
You did your part, its not your fault that USPS messed up. What kind of business makes you pay a fee to insure that they dont mess it up? They shouldnt mess it up to begin with!

Besides, for all you know, the person can claim they never got it and demand a refund, while they received it and are using it. You do not know this, and this is not as unlikely as you think, especially on ebay.

Insurance is optional. If they wanted it, they could have paid for it. If they take it up with paypal, just show them the DC number, and youre fine.

Just keep in mind, you dont know who the thief is.
 
Signatures don't mean jack to UPS. Ever had a package delivered to you that was dropped off at the porch or doorstep? Check the tracking number online and look at the signature. It will say door or porch! :|
 
Actually, delivery confirmation means jack. You would go to court and lose because you do not have his signature. He could very well say that he never got the package and the confirmation is wrong. Although I think that rests on the carrier and not on the seller.
 
Originally posted by: TNTrulez
Actually, delivery confirmation means jack. You would go to court and lose because you do not have his signature. He could very well say that he never got the package and the confirmation is wrong. Although I think that rests on the carrier and not on the seller.

I think the case would get thrown out for lack of evidence long before it went to trial.
 
It sucks what happens, and he is the one getting screwed, but he is also the one who had a package delivered to his appartment. How should you know he has neighbors who steal mail? It sucks, but it's his fault, and you shouldn't have to refund the money. How do you know it was actualy stolen? Maybe he's just trying to get a free video card.
 
You have some learning to do. The seller assumes absolutely no responsibility, except to avoid dealing with people who dont know any better and being trolled. Case law clearly favors the buyer in almost all instances that I can remember. If I were the buyer in this situation we would be headed to small claims court unless I got a full refund.
Your statement is quite contradictory. First you claim the "seller assumes absolutely no responsibility" then you say "case law clearly favors the buyer" and you would be heading to court if you were the buyer. If the seller assumes no responsibility, then what is your argument in court?

The sender has no "obligation" to insure a package - none - unless the recipient stipulates to it in the terms of the sale. Did the seller promise to insure it? Did the buyer request it to be insured? If the answer is no, then the seller has no obligation to do it. I've been buying mail-order for 15 years and insurance is frequently an optional charge. A courtesy? Yes, but an obligation it is not.

The sender has an obligation to ship the package to the recipient, in adequate packaging to prevent casual damage (according to the carrier's specifications for proper packaging), to the address as requested by the recipient, according to any special stipulations requested by the recipient, and that is all.

It is the recipient's responsibility to MAKE HIMSELF AVAILABLE TO ACCEPT THE PACKAGE or to make other arrangements if he cannot be available during delivery hours. This is not only stipulated in USPS policies, but UPS and Federal Express policy as well (read the little yellow delivery notice you get from UPS when they try to deliver a package and you're not home - its YOUR responsibility to make arrangements if you cannot be available to accept your package delivery).

This can be stipulated to the seller before the item is shipped: the recipient can request that the package be held for pick-up at the nearest UPS hub or even at the recipient's Post Office by requesting "General Delivery". I've done this two dozen times because I was often never home during delivery hours.

If you cannot be home to accept a package from the USPS, you can have your Post Office hold your package for pick-up by requesting that the sender address the package thusly:

Recipient's Full Name
"General Delivery - Please Hold For Customer Pick-up"
City, State, Zip Code

The Post Office will hold your package for IIRC 14 days. If you do not come to pick it up within 14 days, they return it to the sender. The Post Office has only been doing this for over 100 years and it is also the way many people have stuff delivered in Europe.

I'm operating under the presumption that the package was delivered and the mail carrier set the package in the common area of the apartment building, then someone came along and snatched it. This has happened to me before, its rather common. I realize that may not be what happened, but I believe that is the most likely possibility at this point, until we find out more information.
 
Anytime I ship anything of value =>$100, I always insure it and ship via FedEx, and always require a signature to confirm delivery.

As a seller, it is my responsibility to deliver the product to the buyer AND protect my interests.

It's called CYA.
 
You never know if the guy is lying or not. He shouldn't just demand a refund. Maybe you guys should split the payment.
 
Originally posted by: LuNoTiCK
You never know if the guy is lying or not. He shouldn't just demand a refund. Maybe you guys should split the payment.

What a good way to get half off all your Ebay purchases.

I wouldn't give him a cent, it sucks what happened, but it's not your fault. It's between him and USPS. He was the one who had it delivered to an unsafe location. HE is the one who lives there and know's his apartment complex.
 
California Commercial Code

The link also includes stuff on FOB and CYI that any ebay'er ought to read.


SECTION 2301-2328

2301. The obligation of the seller is to transfer and deliver and
that of the buyer is to accept and pay in accordance with the
contract.


2303. Where this division allocates a risk or a burden as between
the parties "unless otherwise agreed," the agreement may not only
shift the allocation but may also divide the risk or burden.

2308. Unless otherwise agreed
(a) The place for delivery of goods is the seller's place of
business or if he has none his residence; but
(b) In a contract for sale of identified goods which to the
knowledge of the parties at the time of contracting are in some other
place, that place is the place for their delivery; and
(c) Documents of title may be delivered through customary banking
channels.

2310. Unless otherwise agreed
(a) Payment is due at the time and place at which the buyer is to
receive the goods even though the place of shipment is the place of
delivery; and
(b) If the seller is authorized to send the goods he may ship them
under reservation, and may tender the documents of title, but the
buyer may inspect the goods after their arrival before payment is due
unless such inspection is inconsistent with the terms of the
contract (Section 2513); and
(c) If delivery is authorized and made by way of documents of
title otherwise than by subdivision (b) then payment is due at the
time and place at which the buyer is to receive the documents
regardless of where the goods are to be received; and
(d) Where the seller is required or authorized to ship the goods
on credit the credit period runs from the time of shipment but
postdating the invoice or delaying its dispatch will correspondingly
delay the starting of the credit period.




 
Ok what I don't get is how people are saying hans would lose in court. Unless otherwise specified (which it wasn't) - their agreement for hans to ship via USPS to joebob is a shipment contract. The seller is required to ship goods by carrier. The seller is only required to deliver the goods into the hands of a carrier, and title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. joebob should take it up with USPS
 
Originally posted by: RagingBITCH
Ok what I don't get is how people are saying hans would lose in court. Unless otherwise specified (which it wasn't) - their agreement for hans to ship via USPS to joebob is a shipment contract. The seller is required to ship goods by carrier. The seller is only required to deliver the goods into the hands of a carrier, and title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. joebob should take it up with USPS



he cant! hans didnt buy insurance. Delivery confirmation is *not* insurance. With DC the PO's obligations end at the moment they leave the package at the house/mailbox/etc. With insurance a signature is required.
 
I'd have to take the side of the seller in a case like this. It is not the seller's obligation to insure an item. Hans played his role in shipping out the package and once it was out of his hands, he had no control over it.

That being said, if I were in your position, I'd probably return half the money to the buyer but not a penny more and pray this situation never happens again.
 
<<<---- oldsmoboat adds dafatha00 to his DNT list.

Originally posted by: dafatha00
I'd have to take the side of the seller in a case like this. It is not the seller's obligation to insure an item. Hans played his role in shipping out the package and once it was out of his hands, he had no control over it.

That being said, if I were in your position, I'd probably return half the money to the buyer but not a penny more and pray this situation never happens again.

 
I would complain to the Post Office. That's horrible that they just leave the package out for someone else to take. I would also have the buyer contact the Management Office and see if anything was dropped off. How long ago was this? Maybe you can track down the Post Office worker who is "delivering" these packages and have a serious inquiry. If all else fails, report it as a theft to the police and management office.
 
Originally posted by: her209
I would complain to the Post Office. That's horrible that they just leave the package out for someone else to take. I would also have the buyer contact the Management Office and see if anything was dropped off. How long ago was this? Maybe you can track down the Post Office worker who is "delivering" these packages and have a serious inquiry. If all else fails, report it as a theft to the police and management office.

this was like 2 days ago, the guy already went to his post office, and i dunno what he's doing he hasnt emailed me in a day.
 
From NewEgg.com Policy:
Shipping Charges: Your total cost for purchase of any product will include shipping and handling charges shown on the NewEgg.com invoice.

Title; Risk of Loss: NewEgg.com will arrange for shipment of ordered product(s) to the Customer, Free On Board (F.O.B.) shipping point (origin), meaning title to the product(s) -- excepting software-- and risk of loss passes to the Customer upon delivery to the carrier.

Definition of Shipping Terms...

F.O.B. Origin, freight prepaid:

Seller - Pays freight charges
Seller - Bears freight charges
Buyer - Owns goods in transit
Buyer - Files claims (if any)

Terms of Sale:

The point at which sellers have fulfilled their obligations so the goods in a legal sense could be said to have been delivered to the buyer. They are shorthand expressions that set out the rights and obligations of each party when it comes to transporting the goods. Following, are the terms of sale in trade.

- FOB (Free On Board) (ORIGIN OF SHIPMENT): A Term of Sale that means the seller fulfills his or her obligation to deliver when the goods have been passed into the hands of the carrier at the named port of shipment. This means that the buyer has to bear all costs and risks to loss of or damage to the goods from that point.

That should shut a lot of mouths, but it probably won't.
TCS - You have some learning to do.
Yes, thank you for that suggestion. I did a little reading and just proved you don't know any more than most 5 year-olds about terms of sale. Ouch.
 
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