Early Warning Signs of Fascism: A point by point discussion.

[crashtech]

Race resentment is the main political force in contemporary america per every study on the matter, ie. most statistically accurate predictor of party affiliation. Eg. http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm

It's quite a leap to impute so-called white nationalism to every Republican, but typical of the everyday rhetoric around here. I don't have any love for the GOP, but in life I am surrounded by its members, and they are mostly decent people. So I can't give your point of view much credence due to my own real experience. But I think insisting that race is the main problem is a derail anyway, perhaps these kinds of wedge issues loom large to you, but not to average people, imo.

 

[agent00f]

It's quite a leap to impute so-called white nationalism to every Republican, but typical of the everyday rhetoric around here. I don't have any love for the GOP, but in life I am surrounded by its members, and they are mostly decent people. So I can't give your point of view much credence due to my own real experience. But I think insisting that race is the main problem is a derail anyway, perhaps these kinds of wedge issues loom large to you, but not to average people, imo.

You must think you're good at science, too. Or maybe also used to it.

 

[NesuD]

I'm kinda tired of boomers and their crusades. Like, they don't have the mental flexibility to adapt to new paradigms or really think things through. The same record just gets played over and over with them.

A generalizarion as old as time. Old = stupid, Young = we have all the answers. The boomers were saying exactly the same thing in the sixties. Only difference was in the sixties the boomers were essentially labelling the greatest generation as fascists which was pretty funny since they were the generation that crushed fascism. Your post made me chuckle.

 

[dank69]

Enjoy the escalating violence then. I'm sure that when people with MAGA hats start donning masks as well and attacking peaceful liberals unprovoked, you'll be all "Hey that's cool, doesn't really matter".

When people with MAGA hats start attacking people? That shit happened throughout the campaign and escalated soon after the election. Oh, but because some of them were shown to be fake that means all of them are fake. Sorry, I forgot. Airtight logic showing MAGA hicks haven't been attacking minorities, which explains why Trump doesn't need to publicly condemn it.

And yes, MAGA hats and masks are not comparable. White supremacists have a right to vote for a con man fascist, white supremacists have a right to proverbially masturbate their support of their favorite con man fascist, but they lack a right to attack others that don't support their favorite con man fascist. Once you begin to permit some kinds of collective violence along ideological grounds, you provide precedent for white supremacists to begin also practicing collective violence.

...

Nobody is permitting violence. If suspects are caught they will be dealt with, no matter what side they are on. Well actually Trump is "tacitly" permitting violence of course when neglects to speak out about violence committed in his name. He also actively requested violence when he offered to pay people's legal fees, but let's ignore all that. What do you propose is the best way to stop this ANTIFA problem? Shall we ban the use of masks in public? Short of that, I don't think there's anything anyone can do so you are wasting your time.

 

[jackstar7]

Are you implying that any current violence committed by the alt-right represents the worst it could possibly get?

I am not... are you having some of this conversation in your head?

 

[brandonbull]

Nah, I nailed it.

Not sure what you nailed, but "it" wasn't.

 

[jackstar7]

Not sure what you nailed, but "it" wasn't.

Go back and check. You'll see it eventually.

 

[desura]

A generalizarion as old as time. Old = stupid, Young = we have all the answers. The boomers were saying exactly the same thing in the sixties. Only difference was in the sixties the boomers were essentially labelling the greatest generation as fascists which was pretty funny since they were the generation that crushed fascism. Your post made me chuckle.

Not so much stupid but more like fighting the last battle. Op here sounds like he relishes fascism because being anti-fascism gives him purpose and righteousness that otherwise he completely lacks in this society. There is more prestige in European battles with clear cut European foes than there is with 3rd world peoples. Opposing fasicsm for the op has a purity to it that opposing Islamic terrorism does not.

 

[Jhhnn]

Race resentment is the main political force in contemporary america per every study on the matter, ie. most statistically accurate predictor of party affiliation. Eg. http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm

Fear mongering the White majority is how Repubs win elections?

Only since Nixon.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah. Nothing fights fascism likes fascism.

well, we did learn that simply appeasing the fascists didn't work. We got a pretty big war using your strategy.

wait...what is your prescription, then, if we can't call them out on their bullshit, loudly and, at times, violently? Just let these fascist white-supremecist alt-righters and their violence go on, unaddressed?

 

[brycejones]

well, we did learn that simply appeasing the fascists didn't work. We got a pretty big war using your strategy.

wait...what is your prescription, then, if we can't call them out on their bullshit, loudly and, at times, violently? Just let these fascist white-supremecist alt-righters and their violence go on, unaddressed?

Make them chocolate milk and cookies of course.

 

[werepossum]

If you spend more time on your platform and messaging for the next election rather than consuming the Kool Aid that implies losing the last election means "fascism is coming" then you might actually win next go-around.

Never gonna happen. The Dems as a party has proven that they are too stupid to learn from their mistakes. Now the only question is whether the Pubbies will out-stupid them in spite of their best efforts. Led by Trump, the smart money is on "yes".

 

[crashtech]

It is much more comforting to simply blame and demonize your opponents than it is to be introspective, refine your own belief system, and learn to articulate those beliefs. The former brings gratification with little effort, the latter, little gratification with much effort.

 

[jackstar7]

The volume of pieces about what went wrong while looking directly at the campaign and party and platform says that there is significant introspection going on... so what are you talking about?

 

[zinfamous]

It is much more comforting to simply blame and demonize your opponents than it is to be introspective, refine your own belief system, and learn to articulate those beliefs. The former brings gratification with little effort, the latter, little gratification with much effort.

maybe you should school Newt Gingrich on this nugget of wisdom. He's the architect of this current drastic polarization in our political demographics.

 

[crashtech]

The volume of pieces about what went wrong while looking directly at the campaign and party and platform says that there is significant introspection going on... so what are you talking about?

Mainly I'm talking about what I witness here as a gentle reader. I suppose it's typical when your own side loses, but knowing that doesn't make it more palatable. Usually I read to gain some understanding about the beliefs of those with whom I've traditionally disagreed, but most of it is just saying how the other side is stupid, racist, backward, etc. It's not really that informative or helpful.

 

[crashtech]

maybe you should school Newt Gingrich on this nugget of wisdom. He's the architect of this current drastic polarization in our political demographics.

I don't know Newt, but to address what I think is the substance of your retort, I would certainly not blame Dems alone for this kind of behavior. It's human nature, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Edit: I don't want this to come off as a personal attack because I kind of like you, but it's a little funny and ironic that you would point to Newt and basically say, "Well he did it first!" Isn't that exactly the behavior I am trying to say is not productive? I don't ever see anything about what's good about the Left, only that the Right is bad, which makes the Left, what, less bad, even when the tactics look the same?

 

[xthetenth]

I don't know Newt, but to address what I think is the substance of your retort, I would certainly not blame Dems alone for this kind of behavior. It's human nature, but that doesn't mean it's inevitable.

Edit: I don't want this to come off as a personal attack because I kind of like you, but it's a little funny and ironic that you would point to Newt and basically say, "Well he did it first!" Isn't that exactly the behavior I am trying to say is not productive? I don't ever see anything about what's good about the Left, only that the Right is bad, which makes the Left, what, less bad, even when the tactics look the same?

You come off as saying that the capability for a political movement to engage in introspection is a bad thing. It's not bad for people to have some things they disagree with in the party that represents more of the things they prefer.

As far as the rest of it goes, right now the Dems are up against opposition that is trying to warp the government in its favor however and whenever possible. Ignoring that and not fighting back isn't taking the high ground, it's being an accomplice to the destruction of any idea of a state or even nation.

Well as primates we haven't even completely mastered the art of a united country. Nationalism is a step shy of world citizenship, which is often thought of as the opposite of nationalism but is, in its purest form, the ultimate evolution of the greater identity concept. Ideally, nationalism would be a friendlier but no less fierce competition between forms of governance, may the best one win, but being what we are, national identity still constantly runs afoul of culture, ethnicity, and politics, making even a united country a very difficult prospect, much less a united world.

Nationalism and world citizenship are very different for a huge number of people. Nationalism can be opposed to an other, world citizenship requires trying to find common ground with others.

 

[crashtech]

You come off as saying that the capability for a political movement to engage in introspection is a bad thing. It's not bad for people to have some things they disagree with in the party that represents more of the things they prefer...

I was trying to say the opposite, so one of us is doing a poor job of communicating. I am more referring to what I see here in the forums than to any political movement, though.

Nationalism and world citizenship are very different for a huge number of people. Nationalism can be opposed to an other, world citizenship requires trying to find common ground with others.

I think your view of these terms might be somewhat limited, but I'm not the one to expound on it, at least not right now. I have a cold and I feel really cranky. But consider that each of these terms builds on the next: Family, extended family, friends, peer group, neighborhood, town, city, state, nation, world. Each asks us to expand our definition of "us" and limit our definition of "them." They are discrete points on a continuum of growth.

 

[agent00f]

Fear mongering the White majority is how Repubs win elections?

Only since Nixon.

It's a mutually beneficial transaction of social status for political support:

It is much more comforting to simply blame and demonize your opponents than it is to be introspective, refine your own belief system, and learn to articulate those beliefs. The former brings gratification with little effort, the latter, little gratification with much effort.

For example, I don't necessarily blame degenerates for acting in their self-interest. It's not as if this guy wasn't going to categorize them as anything less than "decent" even when they were legally permitted to be more degenerate toward lower status minorities.

 

[crashtech]

For example, I don't necessarily blame degenerates for acting in their self-interest. It's not as if this guy wasn't going to categorize them as anything less than "decent" even when they were legally permitted to be more degenerate toward lower status minorities.

I think there are too many pronouns here. Perhaps these vague statements make sense to those who know the code?

 

[agent00f]

I think there are too many pronouns here. Perhaps these vague statements make sense to those who know the code?

I do believe you were the guy who categorized degenerates who trade their political alignment for higher social status against various minorities as "decent", and you're well aware of this despite pretending not to.

 

[crashtech]

I do believe you were the guy who categorized degenerates who trade their political alignment for higher social status against various minorities as "decent", and you're well aware of this despite pretending not to.

Oh, okay. I don't accept your premise, just for starters, so it will be hard for me to respond meaningfully. I'm positive that virtually all the people I've talked to don't even think much about race at all when it comes to politics. Where I live, it's more of an urban/rural divide, and I'm certain that could be used as an even more accurate predictor of party affiliation. It's a bit distressing that you want to focus on this one thing, but I can't really help it. You want to paint conservatives with the racist brush, let me step aside and let you continue.

 

[agent00f]

Oh, okay. I don't accept your premise, just for starters, so it will be hard for me to respond meaningfully. I'm positive that virtually all the people I've talked to don't even think much about race at all when it comes to politics. Where I live, it's more of an urban/rural divide, and I'm certain that could be used as an even more accurate predictor of party affiliation. It's a bit distressing that you want to focus on this one thing, but I can't really help it. You want to paint conservatives with the racist brush, let me step aside and let you continue.

Pretty funny when nobody wants to admit to supporting the hussein is kenyan muslim / mexicans are rapists / a-rabs are terrorists guy, even second-hand. Probably also going to deny that millions elected him president.

 

[crashtech]

Pretty funny when nobody wants to admit to supporting the hussein is kenyan muslim / mexicans are rapists / a-rabs are terrorists guy, even second-hand. Probably also going to deny that millions elected him president.

Is it just me, or are you trying really hard to find ways to marginalize and insult me, instead of engaging in the exchange of ideas? Is this it, then, can you really find nothing civil, or better yet, compelling to say? I'll admit that I might be challenging your world view a bit, but I'd prefer to come away with a bit of understanding instead of the usual hard feelings...