Early Warning Signs of Fascism: A point by point discussion.

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
Just because dumbshits don't use terms correctly doesn't mean much. Orwell as a socialist who wrote Animal Farm would be well aware of this problem.
Words mean things, and their misuse can have serious consequences. I could conclude that you dismiss the incorrect use of terms so easily because you've shown yourself to be a serial abuser of pejorative terms yourself.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Words mean things, and their misuse can have serious consequences. I could conclude that you dismiss the incorrect use of terms so easily because you've shown yourself to be a serial abuser of pejorative terms yourself.

Why are you engaging him?
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
Why are you engaging him?
Mostly because I am bored, partly for others who might read this thread, and finally with the minuscule hope that agent00f might be changed by it in some way. I've been accused of been naive many times over the years, it's still true, I know... It's just who I am.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JoeBleed

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Mostly because I am bored, partly for others who might read this thread, and finally with the minuscule hope that agent00f might be changed by it in some way. I've been accused of been naive many times over the years, it's still true, I know... It's just who I am.

He is the most mindless poster on here. Others can be engaged, like I can disagree with Amused or Commodus but they make thoughtful arguments which show evidence of having actually read and responded. Agent00f there is a 1 in 3 chance he is some grad student's AI experiment.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
He is the most mindless poster on here. Others can be engaged, like I can disagree with Amused or Commodus but they make thoughtful arguments which show evidence of having actually read and responded. Agent00f there is a 1 in 3 chance he is some grad student's AI experiment.
Hmm, I've never attempted a Turing test on him. What do you say, @agent00f ? What is the nature of your existence?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
It isn't the extreme threat because it is under 1% of the population.

Why haven't all the countries with Muslim majorities all turned into terrorists yet?
It actually looks like the majority are fighting against the terrorists
You figure that its an act?
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
Early Warning Signs of Fascism

Since it's been demanded of me (and it'll be fun to do) let's pick over this one by one...

*Powerful and continuing nationalism
Definitely not a progressive thing, they hate their own countries and blame the world's ills on its existing citizenry. Many are even happy to see their own race and citizens exterminated to correct those ills. White guilt to the ultimate extreme.

*Disdain for human rights
Luxurious goodies get reclassified as "human rights" and then progressives scream for not getting them. Unlimited free abortions are just one example of that.

*Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Like "white supremacist white male cisgendered sexist nazis"?

*Supremacy of the military
Again, not a progressive thing. They hate military and police or any authority figure that will prevent them from doing anything they darn well please. Freedom is a good thing, but structure needs to be in place for those who would abuse it, and everyone (including Progressives) will. A military may not be "nice" but neither is invasion from another country. Then again, see #1, they're fine with being invaded and conquered, even welcoming it with open arms, hearts, flowers, and free kisses as they come pouring off the trains. (All real-world examples.)

*Rampant sexism
xrj7q.jpg


*Controlled mass media
The vast majority of mass media peddles the Progressive message, right up to telling the population who to vote for and demonizing the one they don't like.
Over. And over. And over they spread their views and scream insults and the very idea of disagreement. Have you watched how awful CNN (etc) have become?

*Obsession with national security
Back to the military. Progressives hate their own country and citizens and would be fine with its destruction. Protecting its citizens from outsiders is hardly "xenophobia", especially when certain ones most definitely mean harm... which Progressives see as "distrusting" or "mean to deny them what we unjustly have", etc.

*Religion and government intertwined
Depends on the religion. They shout down and scream insults at a public prayer for Jesus but will lovingly embrace islam in schools, workplaces and public areas, vegan lefties will still fight for halal foods (where the animals suffer even MORE than regular factory farms) and even don the hijab and sing aloha-snackbar at events like the women's march. In short, Christians bad, islam good, all others.... meh, who cares?

*Corporate power protected
Only in one direction. Progressives are very happy to take down EXISTING corporate powers (hoggin' all that loot!) but once they have control and are lining their pockets (too many methods used to discuss here) they most definitely protect their booty! Look at the rioting over reducing funding to PP or leftist schools.

*Labor power suppressed
Like the constant threat of being fired and forever unemployable for daring to speak against the Progressive agendas.
...and don't you dare make a "dongle" joke!

*Disdain for intellectuals & the arts
Boy is this one ever subjective! But I'll condemn the Progressives as the greater offender for this one too. After all, who are the ones preventing debate because someone might say something they don't like and/or deem "potentially offensive". Many of the Progressive "art" projects are not only zero-effort garbage in quality, but most times the "art" exists only to spread its messages again. (And again, and again...) Feminist slam-poetry? You could sell them a blank canvas if it came with a story of "oppression and white guilt". :D

*Obsession with crime & punishment
...and Progressives are obsessed with ignoring the law to do whatever they like. Why buy a house if they can find one temporarily empty and squat in it? (See "free citizens") Watch these school riots closely... it's the Progressives (especially BLM!) who spit on cops and call for their deaths until the INSTANT they need one, then it's like flicking a light switch and they demand satisfaction from the same police officer they just spat on seconds ago.

*Rampant cronyism & corruption
Looooooooots of examples of that. The leftist-dominated media is the first to come to mind.

*Fraudulent elections
We've all seen the tricks Hillary pulled in trying to get as many votes as possible - free concerts, bussing people around, etc. I don't see the other side being 100% squeaky clean either, but not the rampant and total level of corruption found on the FAR left (I have to make that distinction.) These are the folks who will use any method to win - the ends always justify the means. This is why fascism is fine on their "righteous" side, and any opposition from their opponents is considered "fascism" at them.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
Why haven't all the countries with Muslim majorities all turned into terrorists yet?
It actually looks like the majority are fighting against the terrorists
You figure that its an act?

Just TRY doing something "haram" in an islamic country. Walk down the streets drinking a beer. See how far you get.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
He is the most mindless poster on here. Others can be engaged, like I can disagree with Amused or Commodus but they make thoughtful arguments which show evidence of having actually read and responded. Agent00f there is a 1 in 3 chance he is some grad student's AI experiment.

Not that I'm a fan of Agent's style but he's far from the most mindless. Those honors go to posters at the other end of the spectrum. You know it's true.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Since it's been demanded of me (and it'll be fun to do) let's pick over this one by one...


Definitely not a progressive thing, they hate their own countries and blame the world's ills on its existing citizenry. Many are even happy to see their own race and citizens exterminated to correct those ills. White guilt to the ultimate extreme.


Luxurious goodies get reclassified as "human rights" and then progressives scream for not getting them. Unlimited free abortions are just one example of that.


Like "white supremacist white male cisgendered sexist nazis"?


Again, not a progressive thing. They hate military and police or any authority figure that will prevent them from doing anything they darn well please. Freedom is a good thing, but structure needs to be in place for those who would abuse it, and everyone (including Progressives) will. A military may not be "nice" but neither is invasion from another country. Then again, see #1, they're fine with being invaded and conquered, even welcoming it with open arms, hearts, flowers, and free kisses as they come pouring off the trains. (All real-world examples.)


xrj7q.jpg



The vast majority of mass media peddles the Progressive message, right up to telling the population who to vote for and demonizing the one they don't like.
Over. And over. And over they spread their views and scream insults and the very idea of disagreement. Have you watched how awful CNN (etc) have become?


Back to the military. Progressives hate their own country and citizens and would be fine with its destruction. Protecting its citizens from outsiders is hardly "xenophobia", especially when certain ones most definitely mean harm... which Progressives see as "distrusting" or "mean to deny them what we unjustly have", etc.


Depends on the religion. They shout down and scream insults at a public prayer for Jesus but will lovingly embrace islam in schools, workplaces and public areas, vegan lefties will still fight for halal foods (where the animals suffer even MORE than regular factory farms) and even don the hijab and sing aloha-snackbar at events like the women's march. In short, Christians bad, islam good, all others.... meh, who cares?


Only in one direction. Progressives are very happy to take down EXISTING corporate powers (hoggin' all that loot!) but once they have control and are lining their pockets (too many methods used to discuss here) they most definitely protect their booty! Look at the rioting over reducing funding to PP or leftist schools.


Like the constant threat of being fired and forever unemployable for daring to speak against the Progressive agendas.
...and don't you dare make a "dongle" joke!


Boy is this one ever subjective! But I'll condemn the Progressives as the greater offender for this one too. After all, who are the ones preventing debate because someone might say something they don't like and/or deem "potentially offensive". Many of the Progressive "art" projects are not only zero-effort garbage in quality, but most times the "art" exists only to spread its messages again. (And again, and again...) Feminist slam-poetry? You could sell them a blank canvas if it came with a story of "oppression and white guilt". :D


...and Progressives are obsessed with ignoring the law to do whatever they like. Why buy a house if they can find one temporarily empty and squat in it? (See "free citizens") Watch these school riots closely... it's the Progressives (especially BLM!) who spit on cops and call for their deaths until the INSTANT they need one, then it's like flicking a light switch and they demand satisfaction from the same police officer they just spat on seconds ago.


Looooooooots of examples of that. The leftist-dominated media is the first to come to mind.


We've all seen the tricks Hillary pulled in trying to get as many votes as possible - free concerts, bussing people around, etc. I don't see the other side being 100% squeaky clean either, but not the rampant and total level of corruption found on the FAR left (I have to make that distinction.) These are the folks who will use any method to win - the ends always justify the means. This is why fascism is fine on their "righteous" side, and any opposition from their opponents is considered "fascism" at them.

And up jumps the devil, right on cue...
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
When people with MAGA hats start attacking people? That shit happened throughout the campaign and escalated soon after the election. Oh, but because some of them were shown to be fake that means all of them are fake. Sorry, I forgot. Airtight logic showing MAGA hicks haven't been attacking minorities, which explains why Trump doesn't need to publicly condemn it.

Nobody is permitting violence. If suspects are caught they will be dealt with, no matter what side they are on. Well actually Trump is "tacitly" permitting violence of course when neglects to speak out about violence committed in his name. He also actively requested violence when he offered to pay people's legal fees, but let's ignore all that. What do you propose is the best way to stop this ANTIFA problem? Shall we ban the use of masks in public? Short of that, I don't think there's anything anyone can do so you are wasting your time.

Those people with MAGA hats have largely been charged with assault or sued, afaik.

The best solution to ANTIFA is concealed carry and video cameras everywhere. Worked in Washington, it will work elsewhere. ANTIFA only operates in urban areas with significant gun control. As long as people are allowed to defend themselves when assaulted for expressing their political views, I don't really care beyond that.

I am not... are you having some of this conversation in your head?

Read "escalation" again then.

well, we did learn that simply appeasing the fascists didn't work. We got a pretty big war using your strategy.

wait...what is your prescription, then, if we can't call them out on their bullshit, loudly and, at times, violently? Just let these fascist white-supremecist alt-righters and their violence go on, unaddressed?

Are you saying Nazi Germany came about purely because of "bullshit"? Like, everything was a-OK for the average German and then suddenly, voila Hitler?
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
Generally under shari'ah, the punishment for drinking is flogging. In the US, we're much more inconsistent. It can range from a ticket to having the living crap beaten out of you then jail, depending on a multitude of factors.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
Generally under shari'ah, the punishment for drinking is flogging. In the US, we're much more inconsistent. It can range from a ticket to having the living crap beaten out of you then jail, depending on a multitude of factors.

yyyeah, not the most obvious or extreme example on my part. I should have gone the "openly gay" route which will get you flung from a roof or hung. I still think he'd prefer to dance around that landmine than point it out. [shrug]
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
The thing about Fascism is that it was always a mashup of the worst of the right and left, blended into an authoritarian nightmare. Definitions can downplay one or the other's contribution, depending on the leanings of the author. But oppose authoritarianism, and you can know that you are reliably opposing Fascism, regardless of the blind spots imparted by left or right ideologies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue_Max

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
yyyeah, not the most obvious or extreme example on my part. I should have gone the "openly gay" route which will get you flung from a roof or hung. I still think he'd prefer to dance around that landmine than point it out. [shrug]

You would probably think most Muslim men were gay in the Middle East
They are all walking around openly kissing hugging and holding hands
You would be all offended to hell
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
Singapore ticks most of the boxes in the OP and I'd say they're something of a fascist miracle. I think it's funny that people care so much about fascism when communism has a far worse success record. Like, "Oh we have to stop the fascists and assassinate baby Hitler before it's too late, but that McCarthy guy? What a jerk!"
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
2,294
146
Singapore ticks most of the boxes in the OP and I'd say they're something of a fascist miracle. I think it's funny that people care so much about fascism when communism has a far worse success record. Like, "Oh we have to stop the fascists and assassinate baby Hitler before it's too late, but that McCarthy guy? What a jerk!"
I always thought Singapore was an example of authoritarian Confucianism more than anything else.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
I always thought Singapore was an example of authoritarian Confucianism more than anything else.

I don't know much about Confucianism, but I do know they're possibly the most diverse yet stable multicultural nation on Earth, both religiously and ethnically. They have a one-party system ruled by a single leader for 40 years until death (inherited by his son), they LOVE corporations and the wealthy, censor their media and entertainment, their love for military, authority, and punishment is legendary, yet despite all that no one calls them fascist because... it works? I won't say that it would work for any population, the disadvantages of being a city-state also become positives when it means you can tightly control your nation, and when you happen to be located at an ideal location to stick ports, but hey, can't fault success.

I'm just wondering how many of the people in this thread would be OK with mobs going around beating the shit out of commies. Do we respect the rights of others to hold differing political viewpoints, or do we not?
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
I don't know much about Confucianism, but I do know they're possibly the most diverse yet stable multicultural nation on Earth, both religiously and ethnically. They have a one-party system ruled by a single leader for 40 years until death (inherited by his son), they LOVE corporations and the wealthy, censor their media and entertainment, their love for military, authority, and punishment is legendary, yet despite all that no one calls them fascist because... it works? I won't say that it would work for any population, the disadvantages of being a city-state also become positives when it means you can tightly control your nation, and when you happen to be located at an ideal location to stick ports, but hey, can't fault success.

I'm just wondering how many of the people in this thread would be OK with mobs going around beating the shit out of commies. Do we respect the rights of others to hold differing political viewpoints, or do we not?

You hit it on the head. Asian countries are examples of fascism that works. Japan you could say is quite fascist, and yet it is very peaceful as well. Luckily they are an island nation and very geographically isolated.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
The thing about Fascism is that it was always a mashup of the worst of the right and left, blended into an authoritarian nightmare. Definitions can downplay one or the other's contribution, depending on the leanings of the author. But oppose authoritarianism, and you can know that you are reliably opposing Fascism, regardless of the blind spots imparted by left or right ideologies.

Pardon me, but there's a reason psychologists coined the term "Right Wing Authoritarianism". It describes a headset we're seeing too much of in this country & around the globe. Pitching to it is child's play for politicians & propagandists craven enough to go there. Repubs have done it for decades, thinking they could always control it. With Trump, they're having trouble riding that tiger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nickqt