E6750 & Gigabyte P35C-DS3R Overclocking Thread

[wpcoe]

Originally posted by: honolululu
You should see Core Temp 0.95.4 in the title bar. Download here Make sure you grab the Beta version.

Good grief. It's the "little things" that get me every time. I returned to the CoreTemp download page and immediately saw what I had done wrong: I went to the [Mirror1] and [Mirror2] download sites, which of course, are *not* for the the beta version...

Now, after a re-download, I happily have the correct Tjunction reported and no longer have a gap of 15°C to contend with. Thanks for gently guiding me to that solution!

And, thanks again: you have helped me begin to understand Vdrop and Vdroop finally!

 

[mrfatboy]

Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit
@mtfatboy - I happened upon one of your recent posts - forget the forum board - on your vid card, overclocking, etc. You get it worked out? I was struggling with sort of the same thing. ATITool used to control my overclock AND my fan, but not anymore. So I went to rivatuner, but was pretty frustrated configuring it, and trying to get it to control my overclock AND my fan (at specific temp thresholds.) I banged and banged on it.The most frustrating thing for me was 3D detection - getting it to implement an overclock ONLY when needed - ie. 3D apps and gaming. Truth be told, I never got it done with rivatuner. So I use them both now - rivatuner is configured to adjust my fan at specific temp thresholds, and I use ATITool to overclock and then trigger that overclock ONLY when gaming, benching, etc. Unfortunately, I have to load both of them to my tray at startup, but it's seamless now, and that's what I have 2gigs for. If you need help, you let me know.

Regards,

I think you read some of my posts in the Rivatuner Forums. I had installed rivatuner 2.06 earlier this week in hopes of being able to adjust the shader clock on my 8800gts. Previosly I was just using ATItool and nvidia control panel to OC. They don't have shader clock adjustablility.

Last week, I was using atitool to and it totally borked and crashed. When it crashed it screwed something up in the atitool program. It doesnt' work correctly right now. I have removed/deleted/installed serveral times but it doesn't fix the problem. I believe when it crashed it screwed something up in the registry. I am definately no pro in dealing with the registry. I try not to mess with it in fear that I will create a bigger problem.

So now back to rivatuner 2.06. I installed it but I can't get it to OC the card. I set the OC and it says it's OC'd but it really isn't. I run 3dmark06 to test and I'm still at normal speed. I can control my fans fine in rivatuner. I saw in the rivatuner forums that other people have the same problem but nobody is giving them a solution. They do suggest to use atitool and rivatuner in conjunction but since my atitool doesn't work I am screwed. My current line of thinking is that ATItool screwed something up in the registry that both atitool and rivatuner need. Not sure but just a guess. I am going to run a registry cleaner today and see if that helps.

BTW, while I was playing around with rivatuner when my system totally crashed (see several posts up). Windows was corrupted and had to be reinstalled and my 2 gigs of ballistix went bad. I'm glad I had my backup pair Everything happened all at once. I'm not sure if they are related or not.

I really need to get atitool working again. God know what low level files it uses or it corrupted. I'm taking any and all suggestions

 

[Conjugal Visit]

@wpcoe - this may confuse more than enlighten, let's see...

First, honolululu is right about Core Temps - the version you want for the E6750 is 0.95.4, and it does show up as that value in its Title bar when running. Second, I can't find PC-4300 ram - do you mean PC-4200? No matter. I thought you might enjoy a couple of links to read over concerning Ram speed. The reviewer, Steve Walton of Legion Hardware, has made it his business to test the conventional wisdom that faster Ram (as well as larger quantities of the stuff) will always yield faster results. Steve's tests seem to indicate that this is not necessarily so - at least with Core 2 Duo. Graysky, from right here at Anandtech, has also done some great testing, along with others following his thread, on latencies - look for it, very interesting. Here, check out a couple of these links on Ram speed:

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=628

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=630

Graysky's thread (one of many on the subject):

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2112855&enterthread=y

The point is, I wouldn't worry too much about the PC-4200...not TOO much anyway...

As to VDroop, most boards exhibit this kind behavior, and many power supplies too, to a certain extent. At your modest overclock, you really don't need to worry much about it. I have noticed some variation in the various bios versions when looking at the implementation of EIST/C1E. As I've posted before in this thread, bios versions for my board, the GA-P35C-DS3R, are not consistent re: EIST/C1E and voltage at idle. The F2 bios seems to work best for me - it not only changes the CPU multiplier to x6 (at idle) - it also reduces the voltage to the CPU to 0.963 (the absolute minimum voltage cited in Intel's spec sheets.) More recent versions of this board's bios don't undervolt like that - some drop voltage to 1.152, and some don't allow it to drop at all. I'm no electrical engineer, but I can't see the advantage of dropping the multiplier at idle (reducing FSB at the CPU) without also decreasing voltage...

Honolululu reminds you that I have a weird E6750 - "normal" voltage, the value that shows up in bios, is 1.28, as opposed to 1.35. This does give me some advantage in overclocking this thing at smaller overall voltages - I get to 3.52GHz, completely stable, at a 1.36250v applied in bios. I own another E6750 that registers "normals" at 1.3500v, like everyone else.

As to your Ram instability with different bios versions, I can only offer you two comments:

1. You are running 4gigs, and I've read many threads where 4gigs can be more "sensitive" to bios settings.
2. So check your Ram spec and ensure that you are giving it the specified voltage.

Because if I understand you correctly, if you are trying to run your Ram in sync with your CPU, at 1:1 ratios, these are my assumptions...so...

Your Ram is PC-4200, spec'd at DDR-533, which is 2x266. To achieve an overclock of 3.0GHz, 1:1 ratios, and using the default multiplier of x8 on your CPU, you're setting your Ram at 375 (x8 = 3.0GHz)? If any of that is true, that's a pretty hefty overclock (+40%) on ValueRam, particularly if you haven't made an attempt to adjust VDimm voltages to your Ram's specs (check your Ram's spec.). Perhaps you might try setting the Ram to 333, which would bring your CPU back to stock speed of 2.66GHz? (333 x 8 = 2.66GHz) That still represents a 25% overclock on your Ram, but perhaps more do-able? Honestly, I don't think you're going to notice much of a performance difference, real-world, running at 2.66 vs 3.00Ghz...

Regards,

 

[Conjugal Visit]

@mrfatboy - I've done some pretty silly stuff with ATITool - like uninstalling it while it was still running in the background - but it's never really messed up my registry, as far as I can tell. On reboot, it would simply post an error message about a kernel missing or something, and then this goes away on subsequent reboots. I'd just make sure ATITool wasn't being loaded via msconfig, and all was well. You might try CCleaner registry fix, though. Or, you might try System Restore, if you are running it. Try and find a checkpoint that references either when you installed ATITool, or when you uninstalled. The thing is often like magic.

As to ATITool itself, there are a couple of versions knocking around, and they DO treat the 8800's differently, from the standpoint of sliders available for overclock. What IS consistent is that fan control is not available for the 8800 within ATITool.

I use ATITool version 0.26, and it works beautifully with the 8800. Very easy, allows you to check overclocks for artifacts, and is easy to set up for 3D detection. You know what this means...stock speeds for browsing, etc...overclock for gaming and benches. I get the sense that you're trying to manipulate the shader independent of your core and mem overclocking - and I right? ATITool 0.26 isn't going to let you do that. Rivatuner 2.00 used to let you do that, I think, but not in 2.06? I'm not sure. All I know is, I went thru guide after guide trying to figure out how to enable 3D detection, and never could get it to happen. So the only option available was to overclock BOTH 2D and 3D, and that doesn't seem sensible, especially with the overclocks you are running. Pumping that card 24/7 at those high O/C's to type messages in forums? Why would anyone want to do that...ATITool will show your 3D overclock to be your 2D overclock (linked somehow) but it isn't problematic because it only triggers the overclock during 3D apps. Exit that 3D app, and the card returns to stock. You can confirm this within ATITool and with Rivatuner's own Hardware monitor...

But Rivatuner 2.06 does do a great job with fan control and Hardware monitoring - terrific really. Once setup, it controls my vid fan in a way that the vid card on its own never did. I idle around 56C - fan running at 60%, which is pretty silent. I get to 65C, and I have it increase to 80%. 75C, it goes to 100%. At 100%, the vid card never gets over 75-76C, under the most severe stress i can put it under. And it ramps the fan down after gaming or benching beautifully.

Stability and graphics quality has been excellent running these two programs in tandem. I'm running my card at 630/970, which is an awfully nice bump from 500/800 - stock spec for these cards. My card was factory OC'd to 576/850 - that's still a nice bump to 630/970. Honestly, how you (and Gaucho) are able to get to 707/1100 is beyond me - you sure you aren't getting flashing/snow/etc at those levels? I like the eye-candy - I want the picture to be near perfect. But clearly, you are getting thru the 3DMark06 benchie, and that must be saying something. I go much higher in my settings and 3DMark will freeze..

Regards,

 

[MaDMvD]

I have a question regarding temperatures. I have a Gigabyte P35-DS3R and an E6750 - Intel TAT shows my idle temps @ 36-38C, while CoreTemp 0.95.4 shows them at 47-49C. I have my E6750 modestly overclocked from 2.66GHz to 3.0GHz - which one should I trust? I'm leaning towards CoreTemp's readings, since I am using the stock cooler, although I have a well ventilated (2 medium exhaust fans/1 large intake fan) case. My room is cooled between 67-75 degrees Fahrenheit 24/7. Thank you in advance!

 

[Conjugal Visit]

Intel's TAT uses a Tjunction value of 85C, whereas Tjunction of 100C is appropriate for E6750. Core Temp 0.95.4 applies the correct value automatically. You should see a variance of approximately 15C between the two programs. Personally, I don't see a real issue with your temps in the 48-50 range - well within Intel spec. I wouldn't overclock any higher on the stock Intel cooler, tho, because your temps will really start to climb under stress. Nice cooler for what it's supposed to do - cool the E6750 @ stock. Very quiet and efficient at stock voltages. You haven't had to apply more voltage to the vcore to get that overclock, right? More volts, more heat. I would think you can get to 3.0GHz at "normal" 1.3500v as shown in your P35-DS3R bios. Nice board, don't you think? I have one, along with a GA-P35C-DS3R.

Regards,

 

[MaDMvD]

Thank you for the educational post! I love the internet - there will always be someone that knows more than you in any given subject, thus widening your previously "narrow" knowledge of that topic. But anyway, the VCore being shown by CPU-Z is 1.408, but I'll be working on all of this tonight. Thanks again for the reply!

 

[mrfatboy]

@conjugal visit

I guess you have the magic CPU and I have the magic GPU

I ran a bunch of registry cleaners and it still didn't fix my atitool. However, somehow I noticed that I downloaded version .27 beta 2. This version only has 2 sliders and acts very screwy with my 8800gts. I reinstalled 0.26. This version had the 3 sliders that I remember. It works better but still something is wrong. The center sliders (3d power) are defaulting to 0.00/0.00. Version .27 beta 2 had this 0.00/0.00 problem.

I am running 169.09 beta nvidia drivers. I am now wondering if its a nvidia driver problem. What drivers are you running? Maybe that's why I can overclock better than you. Update your drivers and see if you can overclock better and/or have the atitool problem.

My rivatuner 2.06 still does not work for me for OC'ing. When I OC it the OC had no effect. The fan control slider works tho. Also, rivatuner 2.06 is supposed to work with 169.09 nvidia drivers.

Btw, I don't keep my vid card OC'd 24/7. Just when I need it for benchmarking or playing a game. I don't get any artifacting when I'm OC'ing. That would be an unfair test in my opinion. Hey look, I got 707/1100. It looks like crap but I got there for a few seconds

I'm interested how you are working with rivatuner and atitool at the same time. When you adjust the clock speeds in rivatuner do you see the change in atitool? It doesn't for me.

 

[wpcoe]

Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit
@wpcoe - this may confuse more than enlighten, let's see...

First, honolululu is right about Core Temps - the version you want for the E6750 is 0.95.4, and it does show up as that value in its Title bar when running. Second, I can't find PC-4300 ram - do you mean PC-4200?

Yeah, of course it's PC-4200. I took a lazy shortcut and referred to CPU-Z which reports it as "DDR2, PC2-4300 (266 MHz), 1024 MBytes, Kingston." That'll teach me!

As to your Ram instability with different bios versions, I can only offer you two comments:

1. You are running 4gigs, and I've read many threads where 4gigs can be more "sensitive" to bios settings.
2. So check your Ram spec and ensure that you are giving it the specified voltage.

Oddly enough, the last two RAM sticks I bought (KVR533D2K2/2GR) I cannot find listed on the valueram.com "DataSheets/Product List" page. The first pair of RAM sticks I bought about a year ago (KVR533D2N2/1G) are listed, and the data sheet for them lists voltage as 1.8v (± .1v) -- no big surprise there.

Regarding 4GB vs 2GB, for the time being, I think I'd rather have the benefit of the extra 1.5GB RAM available for Vista to consume than any benefit I'd get from a newer BIOS. And, from what I've now read, there doesn't seem to be any benefit for my configuration from the newer BIOSes.

Because if I understand you correctly, if you are trying to run your Ram in sync with your CPU, at 1:1 ratios, these are my assumptions...so...

Your assumptions are correct. Since the fastest speed I can run the RAM is 375, what other ratios could/would/should I try?

Your Ram is PC-4200, spec'd at DDR-533, which is 2x266. To achieve an overclock of 3.0GHz, 1:1 ratios, and using the default multiplier of x8 on your CPU, you're setting your Ram at 375 (x8 = 3.0GHz)? If any of that is true, that's a pretty hefty overclock (+40%) on ValueRam, particularly if you haven't made an attempt to adjust VDimm voltages to your Ram's specs (check your Ram's spec.).

Your assumptions are all true, and I agree that it's a hefty RAM overclock. I'm quite impressed that the ValueRam is stable at that large overclock. (And, while I was running the Othos stress tests with the case open, I would periodically touch the RAM sticks, and they were not all that hot...warm, but not hot.)

Perhaps you might try setting the Ram to 333, which would bring your CPU back to stock speed of 2.66GHz? (333 x 8 = 2.66GHz) That still represents a 25% overclock on your Ram, but perhaps more do-able? Honestly, I don't think you're going to notice much of a performance difference, real-world, running at 2.66 vs 3.00Ghz...

Yeah, yeah, I know it's not a dramatic boost, but I'll take it. If nothing else, it has served as a valuable learning experience. I'm going to price higher-speed RAM on my next venture into the big city (Bangkok) to see if they have any reasonably-priced stuff now. When I checked a few months ago, it was still >US$150/GB and there wasn't much available.

Thanks for the lessons & great feedback!

 

[wpcoe]

Hmmm. Conjugal Visit's comment that: "Honolululu reminds you that I have a weird E6750 - "normal" voltage, the value that shows up in bios, is 1.28, as opposed to 1.35" made me think: Is there a downside to lowering the Vcore as long as the system is stable?

I progressively lowered my VCore setting from 1.35, currently down to 1.3. In CPU-Z the core voltage shows 1.264-1.248 at idle, and 1.248-1.232 at load while running Orthos stress tests.

The Intel data sheet says the VID voltage range for the E6750 is .85v - 1.5v.

Is it a Good Thing or a Bad Thing to lower the core voltage?

On one hand I feel lower voltage should lead to lower temps, but somehow I feel it's possibly not a good idea -- mainly because I never hear of folks bragging of how low they can take their VCore?

 

[Conjugal Visit]

Originally posted by: MaDMvD
Thank you for the educational post! I love the internet - there will always be someone that knows more than you in any given subject, thus widening your previously "narrow" knowledge of that topic. But anyway, the VCore being shown by CPU-Z is 1.408, but I'll be working on all of this tonight. Thanks again for the reply!

You bet. While you're working on things this evening, you might want to check the following:

I'm gonna bet you've left your voltages on "Auto" in bios when you overclocked to 3.0GHz. I would suggest you switch over to Manual, and try your overclock on stock voltages, which your bios should show as "Normal" 1.3500. Or you might tweak it up just a bit, maybe to 1.36250, which is two steps up. I have a rig with a modest 3.2GHz overclock - P35-DS3R & E6750 - running stable at normal voltages. That 1.408 in CPU-Z really jumps out at me. Factoring in some normal VDroop, you've got some pretty high voltage on that CPU for a very, very modest overclock - understand? You'll run very stable at much lower voltages - near the normal 1.3500 @ 3.0GHz. Then watch your core temps drop, and your heatsink get real quiet - both very good things, yes?

Regards,

 

[Conjugal Visit]

I ran a bunch of registry cleaners and it still didn't fix my atitool. However, somehow I noticed that I downloaded version .27 beta 2. This version only has 2 sliders and acts very screwy with my 8800gts. I reinstalled 0.26. This version had the 3 sliders that I remember. It works better but still something is wrong. The center sliders (3d power) are defaulting to 0.00/0.00. Version .27 beta 2 had this 0.00/0.00 problem.

@mrfatboy - that's what my ATITool looks like too - two sets of sliders - 2D and 3D performance. It's normal, I think. Works fine for me, I promise you.

Regards,

 

[Conjugal Visit]

Originally posted by: wpcoe
Hmmm. Conjugal Visit's comment that: "Honolululu reminds you that I have a weird E6750 - "normal" voltage, the value that shows up in bios, is 1.28, as opposed to 1.35" made me think: Is there a downside to lowering the Vcore as long as the system is stable?

I progressively lowered my VCore setting from 1.35, currently down to 1.3. In CPU-Z the core voltage shows 1.264-1.248 at idle, and 1.248-1.232 at load while running Orthos stress tests.

The Intel data sheet says the VID voltage range for the E6750 is .85v - 1.5v.

Is it a Good Thing or a Bad Thing to lower the core voltage?

On one hand I feel lower voltage should lead to lower temps, but somehow I feel it's possibly not a good idea -- mainly because I never hear of folks bragging of how low they can take their VCore?

I've read some threads here and there where folks are undervolting, yeah, and happy to do so. I don't know enough about that, frankly. Personally, if the manufacturer says "run my Ram at 2.1v if you wanna do 4-4-4-12" for instance, I set it to 2.1v. IMO, I'd leave the voltage at Normal - 1.3500 - and then implement EIST and C1E, which will undervolt your rig when it's just sitting around. Or go for it, and start dropping down a step or two, but I'd Orthos the heck out of it, just to make sure when you launch some mission critical shite, undervolted, you don't suddenly freeze, crash, ort start getting computational errors...

Regards,

 

[mrfatboy]

Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit

I ran a bunch of registry cleaners and it still didn't fix my atitool. However, somehow I noticed that I downloaded version .27 beta 2. This version only has 2 sliders and acts very screwy with my 8800gts. I reinstalled 0.26. This version had the 3 sliders that I remember. It works better but still something is wrong. The center sliders (3d power) are defaulting to 0.00/0.00. Version .27 beta 2 had this 0.00/0.00 problem.

@mrfatboy - that's what my ATITool looks like too - two sets of sliders - 2D and 3D performance. It's normal, I think. Works fine for me, I promise you.

Regards,

Just to clarify, do you mean there are 3 sets of sliders but only 2 sets are working properly (2d and 3d performance)? I could have sworn all 3 sets worked for me before.

 

[Conjugal Visit]

@mrfatboy - three set of sliders - 2D, 3D low power, and 3D performance. 3D low is disabled.

 

[MaDMvD]

I went ahead and set my voltage to manual and left it at 1.3500 and set my CPU multiplier to 375. I also set my RAM multiplier to 2.0 instead of auto, so I've got a 1:1 ratio going. Everything is fine, and CPU-Z now shows 1.312 idle/1.296 load. Much better than before at the same clock rate! The only thing bugging me now is that my RAM is now underclocked at 750MHz using the 1:1 ratio. Is there a way to change the RAM clock individually, or is upping the CPU multiplier and adding voltage to the VCore the easiest/only way? Thanks!

 

[mrfatboy]

@madmvd
Change your ram multipler to the next setting up. Like 2.2 or 2.4 and see what that gives you.



@conjugal
Ok, thanks. So atitool working for me. Now, do you know why rivatuner 2.06 is not

 

[Conjugal Visit]

@mrfatboy - not working how? Fan control? Overclocking?

 

[MaDMvD]

Originally posted by: mrfatboy
@madmvd
Change your ram multipler to the next setting up. Like 2.2 or 2.4 and see what that gives you.

Uh oh...I think something bad has happened. I changed the multiplier to 2.4 and upped the clock a bit, and it didn't take when it rebooted. So I watched the flashing cursor on the black screen, awaiting for the automatic "fail-safe" reboot, but it never came... After a minute or so, I manually rebooted, and again, flashing cursor. I hit alt-ctrl-del and it reboot once more, this time turning off and doing the "fail-safe" reboot. However, now things are acting strangely. It seems as though some BIOS options aren't "taking". For example, I when I set CPU Host Clock Control to Enabled, the CPU Frequency field no longer lights up... Changing the multiplier still affects the CPU Frequency, but when I boot into Windows, it's still at 2.66GHz. I currently have it set to 375 (3GHz) and CPU-Z, CoreTemp and My Computer properties say 2.66GHz. I also have my RAM multiplier set to 2.0, which should give me 750MHz, but it's showing up as 333MHz (666MHz), 1:1 ratio. I just flashed my BIOS to the new F8 version; I've also manually cleared the CMOS jumper - no change. Did I screw something up? Has anyone experienced this before? What about removing the CMOS battery for a few minutes? This is not good.

 

[MaDMvD]

Here are some screenshots:

Pic 1
Pic 2

 

[honolululu]

You're welcome wpcoe.

MadMvD
As I recall, since they changed it to do the math for you right there, it doesn't light up anymore.
Yeah, check the OP pics for what it used to look like when only the multiplier was there and did light up.

As for the CPU-Z misreporting I can't explain. Unless you're booting twice with the "fail-safe" boot and not hearing it.

 

[MaDMvD]

Originally posted by: honolululu
You're welcome wpcoe.

MadMvD
As I recall, since they changed it to do the math for you right there, it doesn't light up anymore.
Yeah, check the OP pics for what it used to look like when only the multiplier was there and did light up.

As for the CPU-Z misreporting I can't explain. Unless you're booting twice with the "fail-safe" boot and not hearing it.

It's not just CPU-Z, I'm afraid. CoreTemp, Intel TAT, Everest, Windows itself, and even Gigabyte's EasyTune5 is showing 2.66GHz/333MHz multiplier...

 

[MaDMvD]

SUCCESS! Solution: I know it sounds crazy, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't know exactly what did it, but I did this...

I was in BIOS screen, fed up and pissed off, staring off into space. I decided to clear the CMOS jumper while IN the BIOS screen. PC remained operational (could still go through BIOS menus), but I could not reboot or shutdown, even if holding the power button. Switched off the power supply via switch in the back (jumper still in), and back on. Tried turning PC on, would not start. Removed jumper, PC came on automatically (did not turn on power). Went into BIOS, loaded my OC profile - BAM!!!!!

CPU-Z reporting 440x7 multiplier, for a total of 3080MHz @ 1.312 volts. Memory at 880MHz DDR2 @ 4-4-4-12. Will try to set multiplier even higher to see where I end up - maybe I'll mess everything up again! Such is life.

 

[mrfatboy]

Originally posted by: Conjugal Visit
@mrfatboy - not working how? Fan control? Overclocking?

fan control works. Overclocking core,memory& shader does not. When I set them using rivatuner the press "apply" it doesn't OC. Very strange.

 

[honolululu]

Originally posted by: mrfatboy

fan control works. Overclocking core,memory& shader does not. When I set them using rivatuner the press "apply" it doesn't OC. Very strange.

Any chance you're not hitting test first? I think the warning pop-up is gone.