E2160 Overlclocking Help Needed

[WEW]

Hi - I am assembling my computer, I have a Abit IP35-E, E2160, Antech 500 Earthwatts, Antec P182B, and 4GB of HP Ram.

Now, I have installed the Power Supply in the case, now am placing the CPU in the motherboard.

My question is on the Intel Stock Cooler - I see three lines of thermal compound it seems.

Can I just utilize it like that and be able to OC to 3ghz?

I do have arctic thermal compound - but didnt know if I should apply it to the CPU or not - I saw how nicely the thermal compound from Intel was applied to the stock cooler - didnt know if I needed to mess with it.

Thanks!

 

[Collider]

You should reapply the thermal paste every time you remove the heatsink, in order for it to be uniformly spread. So if u can see what Intel has on there by default u def should clean that off with some cotton and alcohol, make sure the area is perfectly clean and put on that arctic silver stuff. Its def much better then what they use by default. Use a razor blade to spread a very thin layer of paste, make sure not to put too much.

 

[boomhower]

Agreen. Clean off the Intel paste and apply your compound. There are different theories on which method to use, avp's in one and then there is the pea sized lump in the middle. For application that use the pin mounting method, as the stock cooler does, I prefer avp's. For aftermarket heatsinks that get good pressure I prefer the other.

 

[Replay]

I no longer put system boards in the case until everything is up and running. So much easier to work with the bits spread out on a table.

Some push-pin heatsinks are a b*tch to put on. I sit the mobo on corrugated cardboard while pushing the pins down. Flip the board over and you can see if the pins are fully inserted.

Prefer the 1/2 a pea sized dab of compound in the middle of the cpu. Other methods may leave voids. The stock paste is too thick for overclockers.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm throwing in my two-cents here, waiting for MEMTEST86+ to go through several iterations on an E2180 setup.

I have an E2140 setup and an E2180 setup with the same, chump-change, low-end, marvelous little budget motherboard from Gigabyte (GA-73VM-S2).

Now - this thing uses a 610i nVidia chipset, but I believe the same parameters apply for the CPU's over-clocking. You'll have to experiment with your board's FSB limits in 1:1 settings.

FIRST, we've had a discussion on another recent thread in which I maintain that all of these CPUs are the same -- they came off the same assembly-line, from the same manufacturing process, and were then routed to a point where the CPU was "locked."

The E2140 multiplier is 8; the E2160 multiplier is 9; and the E2180 multiplier is 10.

Although INtel's cooler uses something that "looks like" a silver-based or diamond-based compound -- I say -- get some 90% isopropyl and wipe it clean. I urge you to take time to lap the IHS with 320-grit followed by 400- when the copper half-exposed, and then 600-grit to get all the nickel-plating off.

VERY FREAKIN' IMPORTANT ON THESE PROCESSORS and STOCK HSF's!!

Be very careful to familiarize yourself with the push-pin arrangement. The instructions say that "you'll hear a click" when the pin is locked to the motherboard bottom. You may hear a click, but it may not have locked itself. Either install the cooler on the CPU and board prior to installing in the case, or test each push-pin by pulling straight up on it. People have had problems with this, and then reported unreasonably high temperatures. The pins should be pushed in using a diagonal sequence -- first two opposite corners, then the other two.

Before you install the sink, lay down your Arctic Silver 5 or whatever you plan to use. ONce again -- these are $75 processors, but the extra 3C degree improvement in temperatures -- possibly more for these low-end CPUs -- is worth the $5 for some IC Diamond paste, and the patience spreading the muck on the bottom of the Intel sink and your (hopefully lapped) processor cap. Even without lapping, with 50% over-clocks, my temperatures as normalized for 90F room ambient, are still 17+C degrees below the INtel thermal spec for these processors. (But I used the diamond paste, and so if you choose not to do so, expect a 14C-below-intel-thermal-spec at 90F. )

I've yet to try a different multiplier for the 2180, and the 2140 is locked at 8. I'm guessing -- guessing that you can get to 3.0 Ghz easy for this processor using a 333 Mhz host frequency, and 1:1 with some DDR2-667 (CAS = 3) RAM. You should be able to do it right away -- im-mED-iately!! -- by setting the VCORE to exactly 1.3500V.

But first check to see what your BIOS monitor reports in the default settings' stock "Auto" mode. I'd bet money but for the transaction costs through this forum that it shows something like 1.347V, but maybe it varies. If it shows something lower, then pick a notch above what BIOS monitor reports. Otherwise, follow the guides here on over-clocking.

And -- yes -- "guessing." Remember I have the low-end and the high-end of the 21x0, and your 2160 is in the middle. I defer to my comments above speculating about the manufacturing process, because some of the conclusion came from comparing these chips.

IF you choose to run DDR2-800 or higher, I'm thinking you'd be better off with the DDR2-800. At host-frequency 333 Mhz and FSB 1,333 Mhz, you can run the DDR2-800 (if you buy Crucials or something similar) at 835 Mhz with a 4:5 ratio.

Does that get you started?

 

[Mondoman]

The above suggestions to remove the Intel thermal compound are unnecessary -- just install the cooler as is. Even with Intel thermal compound, the e2160 runs so cool at 3GHz that even if the fan on the CPU cooler is blocked from spinning, there's no problem (BTDT!). The thermal compound pre-applied on the Intel CPU cooler is fine, just mount the CPU cooler to the board before installing the board in the case. Here are some useful assembly instructions: http://www.tomshardware.com/fo...part-assembly#t1184072
Run a number of complete passes of memtest86+ with the CPU at its default speed to make sure everything's OK, then set the FSB to 1333MHz datarate and the memory bus (unlinked!) to 667MHz datarate, and see how things work at 1333MHz FSB!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

NOT-MUCH-OF-A-REBUTTAL:

I'll be the first to say that Mondoman "is not incorrect." The recommended choices are "not necessary." I am retreating a bit myself from my obsessive concerns about cooling -- especially air-cooling.

But cooler is better. It's proven that the Innovation Cooling diamond paste is worth 3C degrees, and it's still chump-change to buy it. It's also reusable, and doesn't deteriorate over time.

On the matter of lapping, I haven't taken so much pains with this before, because handling the CPU always makes me uncomfortable. But my discomfort is born of well-placed concern, even if it's unrealistic. I've discovered that just lapping the processor's IHS -- even for skipping a lap-job on the heatsink base -- is worth about 5C degrees, just proven this evening. So people reporting a 10C drop in temperatures for lapping both surfaces are likely not wrong in their observations.

Even so, I'm stunned at how cool these E21x0 processors run at full-out load, with the stock cooler and with 50%+ over-clock settings. In fact, I'm stunned that you can almost get that far with the settings to include vCore voltage on "Auto", or at least fixed to a notch above the monitored value for "Auto."

The only drawback, as far as I can see, is the small 1MB L2 cache. This was considered "a pile of extra transistors" three or four years ago with the Prescott PEntium 4's. But in comparison to the Conroe and Kentsfield and Penryn models, it's a bit puny.

But if it's puny, it's also cool. Performance may suffer, but the reduction in the power-sucking chip components means less thermal wattage.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, it's confirmed. Lapping your E2180 OC'd to 33% using the stock cooler will buy you 4 to 5C degrees of lower temperatures, even if you don't lap the bottom of the stock cooler . . .

You can, as Mondoman says, over-clock without attention to cooling for these puppies, and I agree that air-cooling improvements probably doesn't buy much in the way of megahertz. I DO think I proved it last summer, though, that enhanced chipset cooling will buy you the same over-clock at a hundredth of a volt VCORE less -- maybe a tad more . . .

 

[Mondoman]

It seemed to me that the OP was not into extreme OCing or "extreme" tinkering (e.g. lapping), so my comments were meant for his specific case. Of course, if you're into such things, there's (usually) no harm in lapping, and I would definitely agree that the HS/CPU need to be cleaned and thermal compound re-applied *every* time the hs is removed from the CPU. However, as BD notes, the e2xxx run very cool, so for the "average user", it's fine to just mount the stock Intel hsf and go.

 

[WEW]

I think I'm already having some problems. I installed the CPU with the stock cooler - I decided to wipe the intel thermal compound and use the arctic - i applied it to the cpu and heatsink.

My idle temperature with just the stock cooler is 53 celcius -- isnt that too high? I removed the cooler and the installed it again by applying some more thermal compound - the temperature is still in that range from 49 - 53 C

I have done no OCing yet

 

[WEW]

By the way my abit IP35-E - I didnt update any BIOS or anything - it double boots - im not sure which version it is - im not sure if its telling me the accurate temp.

 

[DSF]

What are you using the measure the temperature?

If you haven't already, download either CoreTemp or Speedfan and see what they say.

 

[WEW]

I was using whatever is in the BIOS - the temp there - I havent connected a hard drive yet.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Something's not quite right. It's about 65F room ambient here in So-Cal (and wish it were that way year-round, with Seattle rainfall -- so all the sun-worshippin' hoople-heads would migrate to Cabo San Lucas so that real-estate market-values would drop).

I'm stressing with the multi-core version of PRIME95 v.25.5 -- both systems. One is in a midtower case -- with the stock cooler. The other is ina full-tower case -- with the stock cooler. With CPU-intensive small-FFTs, the E2180 barely breaks 50C,50C at full load. The E2140 is OC'd to the same 2.67 Ghz, but with different multiplier and no IHS lap-job. It pushes about 54C under the same conditions.

There's no ducting mod or anything special about these cases. I'm using 120x38mm single Panaflo M1 intake fans. The full-tower has a 120x25mm Evercool Aluminum fan for exhaust that only spins at 2,000 rpm. The little midtower has a 92x25mm ThermalTake "Blue Smart" fan for exhaust that's trimmed to about 2,800 rpm.

Check the push-pins again. Also check your CPU fan settings in BIOS. Something's quirky there.

Oh, yeah. I've never encountered this as a specific problem, but I can imagine that a BIOS revision can read the temperatures incorrectly if it has been proven (and it has . . ) that BIOS revisions read or set the voltages incorrectly.

Maybe there's something wrong with your thermal paste application. Maybe there are air-pockets. Maybe too much or too little. But even if you put a rice-grain's worth of AS5 in the IHS center and just squished it with the cooler base, that's way too high for an idle temperature. Geesh. My idle temp on these things -- both OC'd to 2.67 Ghz -- is more like the room ambient -- they report about 17 or 18C for both cores.

 

[WEW]

core temp says 42 for first processor and 43 for second.

i guess i'll remove it - clean the paste - put a dab of the paste in the center without spreading it this time - i think i might have too much -- i guess one grain rice worth in the center of the CPU is fine - right?

 

[WEW]

bloody hell - im tired of this crap - i applied the thin line of paste - the temp just kept on jumping up - i reapplied after cleaning by spreading it out using intel heatsink - temp is at 49 C

im seeing the temp in the BIOS

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Lissen, WEW. Get a metal straight-edge -- one of those little 6-inch-long metric rulers, or a razor blade, and hold the processor up to a bright light, moving the straightedge around this way and that -- 360-degrees all around -- on the IHS (after you clean it). See if it isn't uneven. I'd say -- take a half hour to an hour (can't be that long with fresh 320-grit followed by 400 -- couple drops of water . . . ) -- and lap it down to copper -- flat. You could even leave a little of the nickel-plating on there, but get most of it down to copper. The copper is about 95%+ accounting for the IHS thickness.

Then when you put the AS5 -- I still recommend the IC Diamond, though -- use a razor-blade to slowly spread the stuff across the IHS and heatsink. If there's just a haze and you can still see something of the copper through it, add just a teensy more. Arctic does their tests with 0.001" thickness. My guess is that 0.002" or more is OK, but spread it on thin enough -- yet thick enough so all you see is the gray paste.

Those damn plastic pushpins are a b**** though. Shame you have to twist and remove them just to sort this out. Something like that, you'd like to get right the first time -- if that indeed is part of the problem. At least you don't have to worry about that s*** if you get an 3rd-party cooler like ThermalRight's Ultima 90, but the stock cooler is all that's called for here.

 

[WEW]

I've put the damn heatsink on about 7 times now - the temp stays idle at 54 C - and i was reading a cooler master box it says with stock heatsink - thats normal temp in the bios.

I have the OS running at idle right now to see what temp it stays at.

I dont even know if i have enough energy in my fingers to take out the push pins - clean and reapply. i have COOLER MASTER GeminII but no fans - maybe i shouldnt have mssed with the thermal paste on stock cooler - ugh

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What does the BIOS setup say about the fan control and fan speeds for the CPU fan?

I just cannot imagine idle values that high. For load values -- yeah -- 50+ or even just 45+ Celsius is about right.

All these C2D's at stock settings shouldn't be more than a couple degrees above room-ambient at idle.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

What sort of case do you have, what sort of graphics and graphics cooling, and how many CFMs are you pushing as intake air?

 

[WEW]

fan says 1721 RPM

graphics card i have a nvidia 7900GS -- I have a PCI-E connected to it - I reapplied again - this time 52 C - at Bios - in windows idle under core temp its like 42-44C

I have a Antec P182B - right i have none of its fans connected -- I only have Intel HEat Sink fan running - and the fan on the Video Card -- thats it.

 

[WEW]

I honestly dont think I can get better than this temp - right now in windows os when sitting idle - temp for both processors fluctuates between 37 C - 40 C.

This is using arctic paste with intel heatsink

Is there any guide to OC - or can someone tell me settings to use Abit IP35-E with E2160 I should use

my fingers hurt with those damn push pins

Thanks!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Originally posted by: WEW
fan says 1721 RPM

graphics card i have a nvidia 7900GS -- I have a PCI-E connected to it - I reapplied again - this time 52 C - at Bios - in windows idle under core temp its like 42-44C

I have a Antec P182B - right i have none of its fans connected -- I only have Intel HEat Sink fan running - and the fan on the Video Card -- thats it.

Uhhh . . . . Lissen, mah fa-riend . . .

Let me get this straight -- get it right, I mean. You have none of the case fans-- intake or exhaust -- connected? And the case side-panel is installed? Or removed?

Tell me what you're doing here . . . .

Also, not to make you uncomfortable, but is this your first computer-building project? Or have you done this a few times before?

 

[WEW]

i had side panel open.

Now I have everything closed up - the fans in the Antec P182B are connected - my idle temp is 40C in Windows XP.

 

[Mondoman]

WEW, there are a couple of possible issues here. I agree with BD that those temps seem too high (my temps *with the cpu fan not working* were about 40C).
1) I suspect that you don't have the 4-pins on the cooler installed properly. Did you follow all the steps in the guide I linked to? One step that people often miss is that you MUST turn all 4 pins completely in the direction OPPOSITE the arrows BEFORE pushing them down. The arrows indicate what to do to release the pins (Stupid Intel Design!). Another is that you should secure the pins in an "X" pattern: push one, then the one opposite it, then the last two.
As may have been mentioned before, it's normally almost impossible to properly get the 4 pins installed with the MB already mounted in the case, so do it with the MB outside the case. That way you will be able to visually verify that each pin is completely seated. That will also allow you to "bench-test" the setup, buy running it with just MB+CPU+cooler, 1-2 sticks RAM, and video card. Just make sure the surface you set the MB on for this is not conductive and won't scratch the MB -- cardboard works well.
2) As BD points out, you always want to be able to compare the CPU temp with the "system" (i.e. inside of case) temp. That temp should also be reported in your BIOS.