E15: Trump's plan to ruin your engine and wallet to bail out losing trade war

[Josephus312]

I do know that if an engine is designed to run on a higher octane fuel, it can use a knock sensor to retard the timing if you put lower octane fuel in the engine. You don't suddenly get an extra 10HP from using a higher octane fuel in any random sedan you care to drive.

This picture is from the owner's manual of a 2017 Toyota, seems like they think you shouldn't put E85 in it...

And that is an actual legal requirement to put in there ONLY in the US despite the same car with the exact same specs doesn't have that in South America or Europe. Take a guess why that is in there?

It's not because it's an old shabby car without an octane sensor and an ECU able to set the ignition timing, it's because oil companies required it in the US and of course we take it up the ass and let the oil companies handle all such matters.

 

[Josephus312]

Oh I don't eh? Maybe I should go back to post 9 in this thread and reread what I wrote about ethanol having less energy per gallon. Maybe then I could catch up with myself.

A few things though.

Higher octane does not mean you get more power but less mileage. In this case, you have an energy source that has less energy per unit measure, but, burns faster. That means that you can extract the energy faster but must use more of it to do the same amount of work due to the conservation of energy.

2nd, your statement about renewable energy being self contained in terms of CO2 is stupid. Currently CO2 is trapped in a state where it would otherwise have little to no effect on the climate. When you burn a renewable energy source, you increase the amount of CO2 that acts on the climate even though the total amount in the system stays the same. Ultimately all energy sources such as oil are renewable if you spread out the time long enough. Thats dumb to do though so nobody does that.

Also, you should say it has a lower energy density and not content. That is small though.

Less energy per gallon but higher octane doesn't mean less power. In any modern car with a proper ECU (anything beyond 2002) it will develop more power even though it will take more fuel per the mile.

Tell me, do you think a massive V8 develops less power than a tiny straight four because it uses more fuel to get that power?

The entire point of renewable fuels is that it can only produce the same amount of CO2 that the source has consumed you dumb fuck. That is how that works.

 

[Josephus312]

What fucking retarded previously banned member are you?

I have multiple cars in my driveway, all newer than 2002, none are e85 compliant.

E85 only results in more power if the engine is built and tuned for it. Higher octane than the engine is designed to require does not result in more power.

Let me explain this to you, from the year 2002 ALL vehicles have an ECU capable of detecting octane as high as E85.

It's that FUCKING simple.

And no, all ECU's are capable of adjusting to higher octane which MEANS that you have a different ignition timing which inevitably will increase power output because of it.

ALL engines sold in the western world post 2002 have this. It's not like they made one version for South America, Asia and Europe and a completely different version for the US.

Also, the term flexifuel is a trademark, you might find the note "eco" somewhere on your engine which means the same thing.

For example, a F150 sold in 2002 is "ecosmart" everywhere but in the US but it's the same engine in the US.

So how about you shove your "knowledge" up your ass and get the fuck out of my face you dumb fuck?

 

[realibrad]

Less energy per gallon but higher octane doesn't mean less power. In any modern car with a proper ECU (anything beyond 2002) it will develop more power even though it will take more fuel per the mile.

I never said it meant less power. Weird you would say that.

Tell me, do you think a massive V8 develops less power than a tiny straight four because it uses more fuel to get that power?

Nope, and what a weird question.

The entire point of renewable fuels is that it can only produce the same amount of CO2 that the source has consumed you dumb fuck. That is how that works.

Solar does not produce the same amount of CO2 that the source has consumed. Is solar not renewable?

Renewable energy is an energy source that is not depleted when used fyi.

 

[Josephus312]

I never said it meant less power. Weird you would say that.



Nope, and what a weird question.



Solar does not produce the same amount of CO2 that the source has consumed. Is solar not renewable?

Renewable energy is an energy source that is not depleted when used fyi.

I'm not going to quibble with you.

But I will have to admit that you are correct on this one, the term I should have used would be "CO2 neutral".

 

[realibrad]

I'm not going to quibble with you.

But I will have to admit that you are correct on this one, the term I should have used would be "CO2 neutral".

I don't know why you said the other part, but, I can't make your tell me.

 

[zerocool84]

Let me explain this to you, from the year 2002 ALL vehicles have an ECU capable of detecting octane as high as E85.

It's that FUCKING simple.

And no, all ECU's are capable of adjusting to higher octane which MEANS that you have a different ignition timing which inevitably will increase power output because of it.

ALL engines sold in the western world post 2002 have this. It's not like they made one version for South America, Asia and Europe and a completely different version for the US.

This is not true. You cannot put higher octane gasoline in any modern vehicle and expect it to make more power. The car, has to specifically be designed to do that.

I don't know why you keep saying this. Either you provide evidence of this or stop saying it because you are flat out incorrect.

 

[OWR88]

I don't want anymore ethenol in my fuel. Plain and simple. These morons with MAGA hats are stupid as fuck following everything this fake blond touts.

 

[Zorba]

I'm not going to quibble with you.

But I will have to admit that you are correct on this one, the term I should have used would be "CO2 neutral".

Corn ethanol is not carbon neutral and creates other environmental issues as well.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Let me explain this to you, from the year 2002 ALL vehicles have an ECU capable of detecting octane as high as E85.

It's that FUCKING simple.

And no, all ECU's are capable of adjusting to higher octane which MEANS that you have a different ignition timing which inevitably will increase power output because of it.

ALL engines sold in the western world post 2002 have this. It's not like they made one version for South America, Asia and Europe and a completely different version for the US.

Also, the term flexifuel is a trademark, you might find the note "eco" somewhere on your engine which means the same thing.

For example, a F150 sold in 2002 is "ecosmart" everywhere but in the US but it's the same engine in the US.

So how about you shove your "knowledge" up your ass and get the fuck out of my face you dumb fuck?

You need to stop spouting what you know nothing about. You have been shown in this thread owners manual from 2017 Toyota saying do not use anything higher than E15. Let me put a link to that post in case you ignored it. https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...losing-trade-war.2555109/page-2#post-39607481 I also know someone who mistakenly put E85 in their 2007 Honda CRV and ruined the engine. What you're saying is simply false.

 

[The_Maestro]

And that is an actual legal requirement to put in there ONLY in the US despite the same car with the exact same specs doesn't have that in South America or Europe. Take a guess why that is in there?

It's not because it's an old shabby car without an octane sensor and an ECU able to set the ignition timing, it's because oil companies required it in the US and of course we take it up the ass and let the oil companies handle all such matters.

You DO realize that burn profile and, more importantly, compression ratio are what determines usable octane rating in a conventioal ICE, right? Spark timing can only do so much (hint: not very much) to help with pre-ignition caused by low octane. It's more helpful in direct injection engines like diesels and new gassers like Ford's ecoboost, but if you think an ecu change will allow a 2002 dodge 360 v-8 to run on 78 octane (or conversely to get more power out of 110 octane) your are incredibly ill informed.

 

[cytg111]

Seems to me that if the possible higher power output from an engine running higher octane fuel is due to higher compression ratio..... well compression ratio is sort of fixed for any fixed type of combustion engine isnt it? Youd have to screw with the volume of the engine right(stroke length?) and i've just never seen a Ford labelled 2.0-2.5L.. From this I can deduce that running a higher octane fuel than what my engine is designed for will net me 0 extra horsepower.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seems to me that if the possible higher power output from an engine running higher octane fuel is due to higher compression ratio..... well compression ratio is sort of fixed for any fixed type of combustion engine isnt it? Youd have to screw with the volume of the engine right(stroke length?) and i've just never seen a Ford labelled 2.0-2.5L.. From this I can deduce that running a higher octane fuel than what my engine is designed for will net me 0 extra horsepower.

Not quite. Compression ratio is just what it says- the volume of the combustion chamber (the head space) when the piston is up vs the volume when it's down. That's independent of engine displacement, Stroke x bore x pi R squared. Hot rodders of old commonly milled the heads to reduce the headspace to raise the compression ratio. Another technique was to use pistons that had raised areas at the top rather than just being flat to do the same thing. Both necessitated the use of higher octane fuel to prevent knock.

 

[Chaotic42]

No one is more Anti Trump than me but whining about him going for renewable fuel sources?

All vehicles that can run unleaded can run E15 (which is the standard in EU), all vehicles made after 2002 can run anything up to E95.

Briggs & Stratton engines can be run on everclear or paint cleaner without any harm, they are damn near indestructible.

Sure, the octane is higher which means you get more power output but it does mean less mileage.

Fuck the market.

That is politics, grow sugar canes instead.

Um, no, renewable fuels are self contained when it comes to CO2 and it has a lower NOx footprint too.

How does ethanol do when you factor in the fuel used to harvest and transport it along with the petroleum used to grow it?

 

[cytg111]

Not quite. Compression ratio is just what it says- the volume of the combustion chamber (the head space) when the piston is up vs the volume when it's down. That's independent of engine displacement, Stroke x bore x pi R squared. Hot rodders of old commonly milled the heads to reduce the headspace to raise the compression ratio. Another technique was to use pistons that had raised areas at the top rather than just being flat to do the same thing. Both necessitated the use of higher octane fuel to prevent knock.

Yea I get the image, I used to do the same on old dirt bikes, flatten the top, adjust the ignition get a little more power... little did I know it was compression ratio I was screwing with, I just figured if you were going to do that ad-hoc, on the fly, and reversable, in a modern engine that would be close to impossible, though you might be able to rise the crank somehow... Dont know, just seems like it would be an engineering marvel to have on the fly adjustment of compression ratio like that.