E15: Trump's plan to ruin your engine and wallet to bail out losing trade war

[nakedfrog]

No one is more Anti Trump than me but whining about him going for renewable fuel sources?

All vehicles that can run unleaded can run E15 (which is the standard in EU), all vehicles made after 2002 can run anything up to E95.

Briggs & Stratton engines can be run on everclear or paint cleaner without any harm, they are damn near indestructible.

Sure, the octane is higher which means you get more power output but it does mean less mileage.

Fuck the market.

That is politics, grow sugar canes instead.

Um, no, renewable fuels are self contained when it comes to CO2 and it has a lower NOx footprint too.

Higher octane = more power? No, that's not how it works. It's not magic.
All vehicles after 2002? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that's wrong too (and I assume you mean E85, I've never heard of E95).

 

[Josephus312]

Meanwhile somewhere else on the planet

https://euobserver.com/tickers/143002

"Denmark to end new petrol and diesel cars sales by 2030"

Yeah and guess what the fuel already mostly is there to reduce emissions? E85! I mean that is 85% ethanol, surely all their cars have broken down and emissions are through the roof?

It applies to all of Scandinavia and the rest of the EU, emissions standards have led to a 15%blend as normal and E85 is about two thirds of the price of the E15 that is standard. Why did they do that?

Was it A. To increase pollution or B. to break all their cars that have been running on this for 20 years?

I know some of you just want to hate on Trump regardless of what he's doing but you can't say that introducing more renewable fuel into the system is a bad thing unless you want to be conspiracy theorists who don't believe in Global Warming.

 

[Josephus312]

Higher octane does not mean less mileage.

I don't think you understand the subject at hand. E85 has a much higher octane than pure gasoline but it also has a lower energy content which means it has worse mileage stats.

 

[Josephus312]

Higher octane = more power? No, that's not how it works. It's not magic.
All vehicles after 2002? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that's wrong too (and I assume you mean E85, I've never heard of E95).

Really? You should tell all racing tech companies and among them Koenigsegg who produces the Agera RS that has 250 more horsepower on E85 because of the higher octane.

ALL vehicles produced after 2002 have the E95 rating (and yes, that is the rating on the fuel lines and O-ring gaskets, they are all rated E95 since then).

Higher octane = more power for quite obvious reasons, if you understand how a combustion engine works you will know why.

 

[Josephus312]

Also we're getting off track here, how is renewable fuel a bad thing now?

 

[realibrad]

I don't think you understand the subject at hand. E85 has a much higher octane than pure gasoline but it also has a lower energy content which means it has worse mileage stats.

Oh I don't eh? Maybe I should go back to post 9 in this thread and reread what I wrote about ethanol having less energy per gallon. Maybe then I could catch up with myself.

A few things though.

Higher octane does not mean you get more power but less mileage. In this case, you have an energy source that has less energy per unit measure, but, burns faster. That means that you can extract the energy faster but must use more of it to do the same amount of work due to the conservation of energy.

2nd, your statement about renewable energy being self contained in terms of CO2 is stupid. Currently CO2 is trapped in a state where it would otherwise have little to no effect on the climate. When you burn a renewable energy source, you increase the amount of CO2 that acts on the climate even though the total amount in the system stays the same. Ultimately all energy sources such as oil are renewable if you spread out the time long enough. Thats dumb to do though so nobody does that.

Also, you should say it has a lower energy density and not content. That is small though.

 

[realibrad]

Higher octane = more power? No, that's not how it works. It's not magic.
All vehicles after 2002? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that's wrong too (and I assume you mean E85, I've never heard of E95).

He is right in that you get more energy in a specific unit of time. Work = energy/time in this case. Because ethanol has a higher octane you get more energy extracted in that unit of time. The downside is you have to burn more gallons to extract that energy as the energy density is lower in ethanol.

 

[nakedfrog]

Really? You should tell all racing tech companies and among them Koenigsegg who produces the Agera RS that has 250 more horsepower on E85 because of the higher octane.

ALL vehicles produced after 2002 have the E95 rating (and yes, that is the rating on the fuel lines and O-ring gaskets, they are all rated E95 since then).

Higher octane = more power for quite obvious reasons, if you understand how a combustion engine works you will know why.

I do know that if an engine is designed to run on a higher octane fuel, it can use a knock sensor to retard the timing if you put lower octane fuel in the engine. You don't suddenly get an extra 10HP from using a higher octane fuel in any random sedan you care to drive.

This picture is from the owner's manual of a 2017 Toyota, seems like they think you shouldn't put E85 in it...

 

[cytg111]

Yeah and guess what the fuel already mostly is there to reduce emissions? E85! I mean that is 85% ethanol, surely all their cars have broken down and emissions are through the roof?

It applies to all of Scandinavia and the rest of the EU, emissions standards have led to a 15%blend as normal and E85 is about two thirds of the price of the E15 that is standard. Why did they do that?

Was it A. To increase pollution or B. to break all their cars that have been running on this for 20 years?

I know some of you just want to hate on Trump regardless of what he's doing but you can't say that introducing more renewable fuel into the system is a bad thing unless you want to be conspiracy theorists who don't believe in Global Warming.

I dont think there be E85 in those hoses? E5 maybe?
Anyway, of course its a good thing but then again, Trump is not doing this for the climate which means he'll be ready to remove it again at a whim.

 

[ivwshane]

Are you people completely fucking retarded?

This is adding a renewable fuel source and you dislike that because? Don't believe in climate change any more when it's Trump proposing a change?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I dislike it because it's a horrible way to help the environment. The focus should be on electric vehicles and infrastructure.

Its not adding anything but extra costs to people who have to fuel up sooner rather than later. Its a bottom up change where those who can least afford it are affected most.

I'm sorry you lack the foresight to see that.

 

[rommelrommel]

We have E10 here in both summer and winter blends. I think you can find E15 somewhere if you really look for it.

Back in the 90's Ford (and maybe others) were marking some pickups as "flexfuel"-meaning they could burn E10 or E15. Question-if the manufacturers had so specially engineer vehicles to burn E15 what miracle has Trump pulled to suddenly make all of today's much more complicated engines be able to run on E15?

Also be prepared to replace your lawn mower, leaf blower, snow blower, chainsaw, boat engines, etc. a whole lot faster than you currently do. Unless you go battery powered.

Flex fuel vehicles were for E85, not E15.

 

[rommelrommel]

Really? You should tell all racing tech companies and among them Koenigsegg who produces the Agera RS that has 250 more horsepower on E85 because of the higher octane.

ALL vehicles produced after 2002 have the E95 rating (and yes, that is the rating on the fuel lines and O-ring gaskets, they are all rated E95 since then).

Higher octane = more power for quite obvious reasons, if you understand how a combustion engine works you will know why.

What fucking retarded previously banned member are you?

I have multiple cars in my driveway, all newer than 2002, none are e85 compliant.

E85 only results in more power if the engine is built and tuned for it. Higher octane than the engine is designed to require does not result in more power.

 

[Zorba]

I dislike it because it's a horrible way to help the environment. The focus should be on electric vehicles and infrastructure.

Its not adding anything but extra costs to people who have to fuel up sooner rather than later. Its a bottom up change where those who can least afford it are affected most.

I'm sorry you lack the foresight to see that.

Not to mention it creates bad land usage habits, creates more CO2 than it consumes (i.e. not carbon neutral), decaying plant material generates methane that is worse than CO2 for warming, and corn farms create a lot of pollution run off and consume a lot of water.

 

[Jhhnn]

Buncha ignoramuses. Octane rating refers to anti-knock properties. High compression engines can cause low octane fuel to pre-ignite during the compression cycle, to fire before the spark sets it off. That's very bad for engines. Ethanol has much better anti-knock properties than gasoline.

A variety of compounds added to gasoline will increase the octane rating, including ethanol. The most common one also poisoned catalytic converters & was phased out 30-40 years ago-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead

 

[JSt0rm]

trump is playing simcity.

 

[The_Maestro]

What fucking retarded previously banned member are you?

I have multiple cars in my driveway, all newer than 2002, none are e85 compliant.

E85 only results in more power if the engine is built and tuned for it. Higher octane than the engine is designed to require does not result in more power.

It's funny how retards equate octane with power output when it's only used for anti-pre-ignition properties. True you can make a more powerful engine if it's designed around a higher octane fuel, but that is only because of the higher compression ratio allowed.

 

[umbrella39]

Man you can tell it's election season... Every two years the out of pocket max is met in October...

 

[Thump553]

Also we're getting off track here, how is renewable fuel a bad thing now?

Personally I think ethanol is a lousy renewable fuel. It only exists because of the gigantic government subsidy-directly and indirectly through mandating it's use. It's been in widespread mandated use for a couple of decades now and has never approached a break even point (without the subsidies). It's also taking a product that should be used as food and diverting it.

There are other potentially competitive products-algae and the like-whose growth has been stifled because they don't have a big farm lobby behind them.

We could do a whole lot better than ethanol. As a renewable fuel it is the equivalent of the Pentagon's boondoggle jets, where they make sure some of the work is sent to all fifty states for political support.

 

[Greenman]

Just so you know, curing cancer usually involves physically removing it or going to extreme options like using radiation to kill it. There are no options where speaking rationally and understandingly to cancer makes it leave the body.

So I have to ask, how do you think we should cure this cancer that is killing our society?

Say what you really mean, you want to force people into your world view by any means. Since your logic is unassailable, anyone that disagrees with you is stupid and has to be stopped.
Hate is a powerful emotion.

 

[ivwshane]

Say what you really mean, you want to force people into your world view by any means. Since your logic is unassailable, anyone that disagrees with you is stupid and has to be stopped.
Hate is a powerful emotion.

You are projecting.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Most of the realistic limitations for small engines running E15 or higher is the fact that as already mentioned, energy density is lower. With most of these small engines still using antiquated carburetors, without re-jetting the fuel system to allow more fuel in, these small engines can run poorly, and hotter than necessary.

Subaru still doesn't allow even E15 in their engines. I wish they'd give a more technical reason other than "just don't do it."

 

[Lanyap]

At his rally in Iowa, President Trump said that he intends to support requiring a blend of 15% ethanol in the U.S. gasoline supply.
...

Trump is dum. News at eleven.

From realibrad's AP link. Trump is removing the EPA ban to allow E15 during the summer. It doesn't appear he is supporting a requirement to use it.
https://apnews.com/57473db3685b48a684edff889c607732

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration is moving to allow year-round sales of gasoline with higher blends of ethanol, a boon for Iowa and other farm states that have pushed for greater sales of the corn-based fuel.

President Donald Trump announced he is lifting a federal ban on summer sales of high-ethanol blends during a trip to Iowa on Tuesday.

“Today we are unleashing the power of E15 to fuel our country all year long,” Trump said at a campaign rally, referring to gasoline blends with up to 15 percent ethanol.

At the White House earlier Tuesday, Trump said: “It’s an amazing substance. You look at the Indy cars. They run 100 percent on ethanol.”

He said he wants more energy production and to help farmers and refiners.

“I want more because I don’t like $74,” Trump said, referring to the current price of a barrel of crude oil. “If I have to do more — whether it’s through ethanol or another means — that’s what I want. I want low prices.”

The long-expected announcement is something of a reward to Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley, who as Senate Judiciary Committee chairman led a contentious but successful fight to confirm Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. The veteran Republican lawmaker is the Senate’s leading ethanol proponent and sharply criticized the Trump administration’s proposed rollback in ethanol volumes earlier this year.

Grassley called the proposal “a very good victory for agriculture,” ethanol workers and the environment. “Everything about this is good, good, good,” Grassley said Tuesday after he and Sen. Joni Ernst, R-Iowa, met with Trump at the White House.

The White House said the Environmental Protection Agency will publish a rule to allow high-ethanol blends as part of a package of proposed changes to the ethanol mandate.

Gasoline typically contains 10 percent ethanol. The EPA currently bans the high-ethanol blend, called E15, during the summer because of concerns that it contributes to smog on hot days, a claim ethanol industry advocates say is unfounded.

 

[Bitek]

Trump is dum. News at eleven.

From realibrad's AP link. Trump is removing the EPA ban to allow E15 during the summer. It doesn't appear he is supporting a requirement to use it.
https://apnews.com/57473db3685b48a684edff889c607732

Trump is also saying it's great bc race cars use it, an of course we all drive Indy cars to work.
:Facepalm

Sounds like a man who knows nothing about cars or engines.

It's great the White House press office is racing to clarify his ramblings at the rally, otoh, Trump is basically saying he'll do whatever he wants to, but knows nothing about the subject, but won't let that stop him.

Anyone who puts any long term certainty in statements this president puts out hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's just another way for Trump to pump a little sunshine up everybody's skirts. Like i said earlier, oil companies won't put any more ethanol into gasoline than mandated because it costs them money to do so.

 

[Lanyap]

Trump is also saying it's great bc race cars use it, an of course we all drive Indy cars to work.
:Facepalm

Sounds like a man who knows nothing about cars or engines.
...

You need to expand my article quote.