DVD Burning Questions

[Lokan]

I'm considering getting a DVD burner to backup my 500+ collection of DVDs that I've spent a small fortune on as well as backing up data and even possibly converting DVR/HD divx/mpeg files into DVDs that will play in my set top player.

I'm currently considering two different drives. Both are 16x DL +/-R/RW burners, one from Pioneer, one from NEC.

Pioneer Model: DVR-108 Link
NEC Model: ND-3500A Link

Now, keep in mind I'm a newb. I've been scared to jump into the DVD burning waters because of the stories of incompatabilities and media not being read. I have some questions that I was hoping the AT community could help me with. Should you have a link or site that has a vault of information, please PM or reply here so I can research there. I've done some limited research thus far but I can't seem to find the answers to my specific questions. Here they come, in a (hopefully) simple list form.

What's considered quality media for 8x burning? Is there a reputable site to purchase them from with good reliability/prices?

How fast does it take to burn an 8x, 12x, and 16x DVD?

How difficult is it to burn a copy of a DVD? I've got tons of DVDs I want to backup to safeguard my "opus" I've put a small fortune into this.

When you copy a DVD, does everything copy including the menu's?

When making a backup of data, is the process similar to CDs, but just able to hold more?

If trying to convert DIVX/mpeg files to DVD media for set top playback, does the burning software create menus or do you need to build them, or is that even an option?

What's considered the best burning software for DVDs? I've used Nero for CDs and have been pretty happy with them, but my copy doesn't support DVD and the NEC has OEM Roxio software.

Compatability? I know there's -R and +R, what's the most typical format? I.e., I have a Toshiba Progressive scan set top player (model number isn't handy ATM), does it tend to play both, some, or all formats? What format is supported the most? Also, how come any store bought DVD will play in my toshiba, but not neccasarily some formats?

I know there's a ton of questions in there, but any help or advice would be helpful. I'd rather watch a backup and keep my originals in pristine condition because I've spent up to $120 on some of these DVDs and collections. Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

[pax2179]

I have an NEC 1300A and it has been nothing but problems, Ive heard the best things about LiteOns because of their compatibility with all types of media. I think the retail is about 75 at newegg.

 

[yankeesfan]

Originally posted by: Lokan
I'm considering getting a DVD burner to backup my 500+ collection of DVDs that I've spent a small fortune on as well as backing up data and even possibly converting DVR/HD divx/mpeg files into DVDs that will play in my set top player.

I'm currently considering two different drives. Both are 16x DL +/-R/RW burners, one from Pioneer, one from NEC.

Pioneer Model: DVR-108 <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/...w...gt;Link</a>
">"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/app/view...gt;Link</a>
"><b">http://ww...w...gt;Link</a>

</a>
</a>
NEC Model: ND-3500A &amp;amp;lt;a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=27-152-032&amp;amp;amp;amp;depa=0&amp;amp;amp;amp;manufactory=BROWSE"&amp;amp;gt;Link&amp;amp;lt;/a&amp;amp;gt;

Now, keep in mind I'm a newb. I've been scared to jump into the DVD burning waters because of the stories of incompatabilities and media not being read. I have some questions that I was hoping the AT community could help me with. Should you have a link or site that has a vault of information, please PM or reply here so I can research there. I've done some limited research thus far but I can't seem to find the answers to my specific questions. Here they come, in a (hopefully) simple list form.

What's considered quality media for 8x burning? Is there a reputable site to purchase them from with good reliability/prices?

How fast does it take to burn an 8x, 12x, and 16x DVD?

How difficult is it to burn a copy of a DVD? I've got tons of DVDs I want to backup to safeguard my "opus" &amp;amp;lt;img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif" border="0"&amp;amp;gt; I've put a small fortune into this.

When you copy a DVD, does everything copy including the menu's?

When making a backup of data, is the process similar to CDs, but just able to hold more?

If trying to convert DIVX/mpeg files to DVD media for set top playback, does the burning software create menus or do you need to build them, or is that even an option?

What's considered the best burning software for DVDs? I've used Nero for CDs and have been pretty happy with them, but my copy doesn't support DVD and the NEC has OEM Roxio software.

Compatability? I know there's -R and +R, what's the most typical format? I.e., I have a Toshiba Progressive scan set top player (model number isn't handy ATM), does it tend to play both, some, or all formats? What format is supported the most? Also, how come any store bought DVD will play in my toshiba, but not neccasarily some formats?

I know there's a ton of questions in there, but any help or advice would be helpful. I'd rather watch a backup and keep my originals in pristine condition because I've spent up to $120 on some of these DVDs and collections. Thanks in advance for any help or advi-ce!

-i'd get the nec
-almost anything rated 8x is good media. check cdfreaks.com for ratings on media.
-my 8x burner takes about 8-9 minutes to burn a full DVD
-you can't make a straight 1 to 1 copy of a DVD movie. You should use DVD decrypter and DVD shrink to make copies of movies. see doom9.net for guides.
-Yes, it can just hold more. drag and drop files in nero
-never tried it.
-Nero 6 is good.
-All the new players will play both.

 

[Lokan]

Anymore thoughts? Two conflicting views about the NEC models and any more info in general would be appreciated!

 

[FreshFish]

I am still a quasi-newb to it all...but I have the NEC 2510A (the 3500A you are contemplating is faster) and I have a flawless record once I figured out what I was doing. I only use 4x media so I can only burn so fast, but I can burn a DVD in about 14 minutes. Just download DVD Shrink for free, copy the DVD to your HD, then burn the DVD movie folder which is created by DVD Shrink onto the DVDR using burning software. I use Roxio Easy Media Creator which came with my NEC and it's quite easy to operate.

 

[bluntman]

I just bought the NEC-3500a in black to take over for my trusted LG-GSA 4040b drive. At 4x the LG drive too about 15 minutes to burn a full DVD, the 2x burner in my laptop takes about 30 minutes. I don't have any faster media available to me so I am stuck at 4x even with my 16x burner. Theoretically, an 8x burner should take around 7 or 8 minutes to burn and you can come to your own conclusions as to how fast a 12x and 16x burner will take to burn a full DVD.

Backing-up a DVD isn't all that difficult, some would make it seem that way but there are various pieces of software out there that can suit your needs. Personally, I use DVDShrink to rip and CloneDVD2 to compress (if needed) and burn. My OEM NEC came with a copy of Nero OEM Suite, but the version of Nero I already have on my system supported DVD writing already, you may just need to upgrade your version to the latest version.

The store bought, prerecorded DVDs, I believe use the DVD-ROM format, that's why they can be played in any machine with the proper corresponding region code. The "+" and "-" come into play when you are talking about blank, recordable media.

For more useful information check out DVD-R Help.com

 

[Fulcrum]

I've heard some bad things about the new pioneer, but to be fair that was also with early firmware and drivers, so things may have improved by now. I've not heard much on the newest NEC, but I have the 2510a and it works great, for whatever that's worth.

 

[kaizersose]

Originally posted by: Fulcrum
I've heard some bad things about the new pioneer, but to be fair that was also with early firmware and drivers, so things may have improved by now. I've not heard much on the newest NEC, but I have the 2510a and it works great, for whatever that's worth.

i want to try some faster media, but the newegg (ritek) 4x dvd-r's that my pioneer dvr-108 came with have all burned flawlessly with both movies and data.

 

[Lokan]

So the NEC is getting some love with a few people cautioning the Pioneer. They both seem to have identical specs with the Pioneer costing a bit more. I've used NEC monitors before and have good luck with them, so I guess I'm inclined to go with them (unless there's some more Pioneer lurkers out there ).

As for software, on 8.30 newegg is due to receive the NEC w/ an OEM version of Roxio and it's only $5 more so I'll wait to order that one tomorrow morning. I wanted to thank everyone for their input. I feel much better knowing that the DVDs I burn should play fairly well and I'm going to start w/ the links provided and research some more.

A couple questions no one seemed to touch on were: Is there a great place to purchase the media (ex: reputable and cost efficient?), and What format seems to have the best compatability, -r or +r? Or is that a case of "burn one of each and find out newb" ;D

Thanks again guys, this info is great!

 

[Lokan]

Upon reading the info at the dvd help link above, they mention something about only being able to burn dual layer discs at 2.4x because of CSS. The drives I'm looking at don't mention anything about that speed limitation. Can anyone elaborate on that? And what's the major difference between dual layer and non-dual layer? I.e., are most of my store bought DVDs dual layer, meaning I won't be able to back them up w/o hacking up the movie into seperate discs?

 

[Kalisperas]

I have the NEC, and I haven't had any problems with it yet.
Some random comments in regards to your above questions:
When backing up, keep in mind that DVD+/-R's are 4.5gb whereas your video DVD's are 9gb. So you can't really make a perfect 1/1 copy. You have to use something like DVD Shrink to cut out stuff you don't want (like foreign language audio tracks) in order to improve video quality on the backup, or keep it all while sacrificing video quality. When buring a DivX or MPEG to DVD, you'll need to use software to create menus. I really like DVD Lab. It's more powerful and flexible than some of the simpler options, but easier to learn and use than the more professional options. Buring a data DVD is just like buring a CD. I like Nero for that purpose, and having the Nero engine installed allows you to burn with DVD Shrink, without needing another app for the burning.

As to which format is more compatible, the answer I've found after my own research is "Depends on who you ask". DVD-R and DVD+R are two competing formats (like VHS and Beta), each hoping to become the standard format. Only time, and consumers, will determine the eventual winner. They both record the same data, but they record it in different ways. I've heard it compared to writing words on a page Up-to-Down, as opposed to Left-to-Right. The arguments I've heard in the past boil down to this: DVD-R was developed first, so manufacturers of hardware have had more time to adapt their hardware to it. DVD+R was developed later, so they had more time to study the hardware and address problems with their format working with it.

As to dual-layer discs, they effectively give you 8.5gb on one disc. Last I knew, yes, the only supported burning speed for DL was 2.4X, but this may have recently changed. I've also heard reports that dual-layer discs have some substantial compatibility problems with existing players, but this is bound to change as newer players are released. Dual layer IS promising, because once the issues have been smoothed out, it will allow you to create 1/1 clones with no loss of quality.

 

[Lokan]

Originally posted by: Kalisperas
I have the NEC, and I haven't had any problems with it yet.
Some random comments in regards to your above questions:
When backing up, keep in mind that DVD+/-R's are 4.5gb whereas your video DVD's are 9gb. So you can't really make a perfect 1/1 copy. You have to use something like DVD Shrink to cut out stuff you don't want (like foreign language audio tracks) in order to improve video quality on the backup, or keep it all while sacrificing video quality. When buring a DivX or MPEG to DVD, you'll need to use software to create menus. I really like DVD Lab. It's more powerful and flexible than some of the simpler options, but easier to learn and use than the more professional options. Buring a data DVD is just like buring a CD. I like Nero for that purpose, and having the Nero engine installed allows you to burn with DVD Shrink, without needing another app for the burning.

As to which format is more compatible, the answer I've found after my own research is "Depends on who you ask". DVD-R and DVD+R are two competing formats (like VHS and Beta), each hoping to become the standard format. Only time, and consumers, will determine the eventual winner. They both record the same data, but they record it in different ways. I've heard it compared to writing words on a page Up-to-Down, as opposed to Left-to-Right. The arguments I've heard in the past boil down to this: DVD-R was developed first, so manufacturers of hardware have had more time to adapt their hardware to it. DVD+R was developed later, so they had more time to study the hardware and address problems with their format working with it.

Awesome! That's some of the info I was needing! Thank you so much! I understand about WHY it's not possible to do a 1-1 copy now. Was dring me bonkers With that in mind, are they ever going to get 9gb DVD's to the market and if so, what speeds will current 16x NEC burners burn at?

And thanks for the heads-up about Nero, I will look into that program to burn my DVDs at as I'm definately familiar w/ them -vs- roxio.

Also, what format would I use to burn a file on my PC to a DVD disc to view it in my Toshiba SD-3800 DVD player? I don't know what format (.mpg, vcd, etc) that a standard DVD player reads to treat a user created DVD as if it were store bought (i.e. will it go directly to menus, or just start and play like a VHS tape but on a DVD player w/ no chapter breaks, etc etc).

Thanks again for the explaining why 1-1 copies aren't possible.. it's making sense now

 

[Kalisperas]

I edited my above post with some info about dual-layer.
The standard video format used by DVD players is MPEG-2. My choice to convert to this is TMPGEnc. For audio, the standard format is AC3, which is a proprietary Dolby Digital format. Last time I checked, there was little in the way of free tools to convert to AC3, so I'm using a plug-in for Vegas, though this is a costly solution. The WAV format will also work, but is FAR larger in terms of filesize than AC3. WAV is also only 2 channel, whereas AC3 can be up to 6 channel, for surround sound.

For things like menus, chapter breaks, etc., you'll need authoring software. Like I said above, my favorite is DVD Lab. You need to convert your video to MPEG2 and your audio to AC3 or WAV, then bring both into your authoring software, where you create the menus, etc. Your authoring software will then turn the whole thing into a .VOB file, and burn it to DVD, after which it will be recognized by stand-alone players.

According to a couple sites I checked, the latest dual-layer burners can burn the first layer at 16X, and the second layer at 4X. As to the compatibility of dual-layer, according to Pioneer, players older than 12 months might not read them at all, and recent players will sometimes read them, but future players should mostly support them. Independant tests from several sources show dual layer DVD's to have about 60% compatiblility on current players, as opposed to 90-95% for DVD-R/+R.

 

[bluntman]

Also, what format would I use to burn a file on my PC to a DVD disc to view it in my Toshiba SD-3800 DVD player? I don't know what format (.mpg, vcd, etc) that a standard DVD player reads to treat a user created DVD as if it were store bought (i.e. will it go directly to menus, or just start and play like a VHS tape but on a DVD player w/ no chapter breaks, etc etc).

Make things easy on yourself and download a copy of DVDShrink to rip the DVD to your hard drive and then use CloneDVD2 (free for 30 days) to compress and burn the DVD. You can get into the more elaborate programs later on when you get more comfortable with what you are doing, but with CloneDVD2 after 3 clicks you'll be off and burning.

To play it safe, use a "-R" blank DVD if you want to be able to view burned DVDs on your Toshiba.

.mpg is the format that store bought DVDs are burned in.
.vcd is a lower quality format, similar to VHS quality with stereo sound. This format is popular in Asia where many people still have movies on burned onto 2 or more CDs.
Keep it simple since you're just starting out and since you only seem to want to view your burned discs on your Toshiba.

DVDShrink will enable you to rip the parts of the disc that you don't want (subtitles, menus, soundtracks, extras) and keep the ones you do want. It will also compress the resultant files for you if you wish, but I let CloneDVD2 do that for me.

CloneDVD2 will read the files that a ripper has outputted and will also allow you to removed subtitles, menus, soundtracks and extras if they were there in the ripped files to begin with. After that you just let it do it's thing, compressing the files if needed. A few minutes later you're done.

 

[Kalisperas]

Originally posted by: bluntman
.mpg is the format that store bought DVDs are burned in.
.vcd is a lower quality format, similar to VHS quality with stereo sound. This format is popular in Asia where many people still have movies on burned onto 2 or more CDs.

VCD is actually still .mpg, it's just MPEG-1 as opposed to MPEG-2. I've only heard of it being used on CD's, although I suppose a DVD could be burned as a VCD, but only specific players will read VCD's.

You might find this site interesting. According to this, your player isn't compatible with dual layer DVD's.

 

[Lokan]

Thanks guys for all the input. It looks like I'm going to purchase the NEC-3500a silver w/ oem from Newegg today. I saw the breakdown on that site as well about my player and if it won't do DVDr-DL then I'll just get another one.

Thanks for all the recommendations and help guys, you've been extremely patient and informative!

If anyone else has a burner recommendation please let me know. I only see ASUS, NEC, and Pioneer available in 16x at newegg.

Oh yes, does the NEC have buffer underrun protection like the Plextor's do? I know my Lite-on CDR does and it's been a nice feature. If anyone can recommend a good burner w/ buffer underrun protection I'd appreciate that as it might sway my thoughts if the NEC doesn't have that. Even if I have to go with a slower burner (seeing as only 8x media is available anyway).

 

[Jeff7181]

I know it's not one of the options you listed, but I like my Optorite one. It's 8X... dual format... and also supports HD-Burn which puts ~1.4 GB on a regular CD-R. It can only be read in drives that support HD-Burn though. I like it for backing up data files that I periodically discard for a new backup disc rather than using CD-RW media since CD-R is so cheap. I have over 150 blank CD-R's sitting next to me that cost me about $3 or 4 for the whole bunch. Another cool thing about HD-Burn... a HD CD can be written (and I believe read) at about 80X =)

 

[Lokan]

That's an interesting feature but I'm mainly using this drive to backup my store bought DVDs (our would be).

I've been looking at this drive here and it has an 8mb cache and buffer underrun protection which I have on my CDR and have never burned a coaster with it. Will this technology do the same for a DVD burner as well?

I know it's not Dual Layer, but are standard 4.7gb DVD-R's able to burn Dual Layer or is that media more expensive (or not even out on the market yet?). If it's too cost prohibitive then I'll just buy the plextor 12x since it seems to have such favorable reviews.

Also, about the NEC, not even NEC's website has specs for this model. I don't know if it has Buffer underrun, firmware, drivers, etc. In fact, it says that due to it being an OEM only drive, they won't support it and to contact the retailer to get drivers, which of course Newegg has no info on. I'm not very reassured about that. Can anyone point me in the right direction on this issue? The important of buffer underrun protected on a DVD burner, dual layer media availability, etc?

 

[Lokan]

Ok, here's an interesting option.

Linkage to product

It's a Memorex 16x Dual Layer +/- RW Drive w/ Buffer UnderRun protection. It seems to be the only 16x with buffer underrun that I've found. However, I don't see it for sale anywhere else or any reviews for it. I don't mind spending the money, but is this a decent drive? Should I even take the chance? And is Dual Layer really worth it?

Argh! Decisions Decisions decisions! I guess I really want to know if Dual Layer is more important than Buffer Underrun, or do neither of those even matter? I'll be purchasing the drive today/tomorrow at the latest so any help would be appreciated.. thanks guys.

 

[gf4200isdabest]

For that it's worth, i have a LDW-411S that works just fine. It's a little old but the compatibility has been very good. It works on my DVD player which, generally, has really poor compatibility with burned stuff. I'd emphatically recommend you check out Lite-On's DVD burners.

As far as burning time goes, it should be noted that the actual burn doesn't take very much time at all. For instance, burning a DVD at 4x should not be viewed as "take the time it takes to burn a CD at 4x and multiply it by 6 because a DVD stores 6 times more." I've found burning times to be quite acceptable at 4x and I certainly won't be upgrading my burner until 16x+ media becomes cheap.

Buffer underrun helps prevent coasters if you do other stuff during a burn. If you leave your computer alone while it's burning, you don't *need* it but it's a nice feature.

Dual layer is very useful for making copies of commercial dvd's. Many places have switched to dual layer to try to prevent their dvd's from being copied. However, I dunno where you'd get dual layer dvd's cheaply. There is software available such as DVD X Copy which will allow you to copy dual layer dvd's with a single layer burner.

 

[Kalisperas]

As gf4200isdabest said, buffer underrun protection is good if you're doing other things with your comp while burning. Personally, I always leave my machine alone while it's burning just to be on the safe side, but it's really a personal preference. If you think you're going to want to do other things on your comp while burning, then get a drive with buffer underrun protection. According to this, the NEC ND-3500A does have buffer underrun protection.

Dual layer support is certainly worth considering, but it is still in it's infancy. You might very well regret purchasing a drive without it, though, especially where your main purpose for the drive is backing up video DVD's.

 

[kaizersose]

Originally posted by: Lokan
Ok, here's an interesting option.

Linkage to product

It's a Memorex 16x Dual Layer +/- RW Drive w/ Buffer UnderRun protection. It seems to be the only 16x with buffer underrun that I've found. However, I don't see it for sale anywhere else or any reviews for it. I don't mind spending the money, but is this a decent drive? Should I even take the chance? And is Dual Layer really worth it?

Argh! Decisions Decisions decisions! I guess I really want to know if Dual Layer is more important than Buffer Underrun, or do neither of those even matter? I'll be purchasing the drive today/tomorrow at the latest so any help would be appreciated.. thanks guys.

not worth it. i think the nec's have buffer underrun protection but if you are really concerned, the pioneer dvr-108 has it. over the weekend, i was burning a dvd, scanning a picture into photoshop and surfing at the same time with no issues whatsoever. you wont go wrong with either the pioneer or the nec-3500. they are the best drives on the market right now.

 

[bluntman]

Many drives, like the Memorex and TDK drives, are just rebadged drives from other manufacturers. I believe the TDK 16x dual layer burner is a rebadged NEC-3500. You'll end up paying for extra packaging, blank media and software. The Memorex drive may be a rebadged Pioneer (or even a Sony drive).

 

[Lokan]

Originally posted by: bluntman
Many drives, like the Memorex and TDK drives, are just rebadged drives from other manufacturers. I believe the TDK 16x dual layer burner is a rebadged NEC-3500. You'll end up paying for extra packaging, blank media and software. The Memorex drive may be a rebadged Pioneer (or even a Sony drive).

D'oh! Oh well. I just ordered the NEC-3500a blk w/ OEM software for $89 today and will hopefully have it by Friday.

Thanks everyone for all the help. I really appreciate it and I'll let you know how things go as I'm sure I'll have questions once the drive arrives.

Does anyone know if Ridata DVD-R's are any good? Newegg has 100pks for $56 and the Fuji's are $73 but out of stock. I'll buy Fuji as it seems they're considered "high quality media" but if I can get the Ridata's now and save a few bucks, I wouldn't mind doing that.

And sidenote: does anyone know what the memorex drive is? I mean, if it's an NEC, it might have been worth getting just for the Nero software since Newegg sells that for $85!

Or does anyone know where I can get Nero6 relatively inexpensively? Thanks!

 

[Broadkipa]

Got the Nec 3500 here, burnt several disks including one dual layer (file back up ) and has worked fine so far.:thumbsup: