Dumb Qustions regarding P4, sorry usually build amds

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: DopeFiend
Or you could look at it from the point of view that the Prescott might reach insane overclock levels with some pretty good forced-air cooling...

(Sorry, I'll shut up now before I confuse things further lol)

Ah, that's OK. I look at it the same way. (Once they fix them so they produce a little less heat, that is. )

I'm going to hold off on the Prescott until those new 700+ pin motherboards and chips are out.

 

[JonTheBaller]

Buy a Dell 400SC, check Hot Deals.

 

[bob4432]

thanks again for all the assistance. after much reading it appears that it is pretty safe to o/c these p4s. what would you say is a safe amount of o/c under heavy load? or does it depend on the chip? air cooling only. are they locked like the amd stuff? would i just need to change the settings in the bios?

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
thanks again for all the assistance. after much reading it appears that it is pretty safe to o/c these p4s. what would you say is a safe amount of o/c under heavy load? or does it depend on the chip? air cooling only. are they locked like the amd stuff? would i just need to change the settings in the bios?

2.4-2.6 tend to max out at 3.0-3.2 on air.
2.8-3.2 max between 3.4-3.6 on air.

3.4-3.6 is about the max for the Northwoods on air at a safe voltage.

All you need to do to OC a P4 is raise the FSB (multiplier is locked), lock the PCI/AGP bus, and adjust memory settings (timings, ratio, GAT/PAT accordingly.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: bob4432
thanks again for all the assistance. after much reading it appears that it is pretty safe to o/c these p4s. what would you say is a safe amount of o/c under heavy load? or does it depend on the chip? air cooling only. are they locked like the amd stuff? would i just need to change the settings in the bios?

2.4-2.6 tend to max out at 3.0-3.2 on air.
2.8-3.2 max between 3.4-3.6 on air.

3.4-3.6 is about the max for the Northwoods on air at a safe voltage.

All you need to do to OC a P4 is raise the FSB (multiplier is locked), lock the PCI/AGP bus, and adjust memory settings (timings, ratio, GAT/PAT accordingly.[/q

what type of cpu temps are acceptable for reliability? the case will be a antec 835 with 7 80MM fans and a geforce ti4200. it will have 2 optical drives and 2-3 hdds, some being 10k rpm scsi.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: bob4432
what type of cpu temps are acceptable for reliability? the case will be a antec 835 with 7 80MM fans and a geforce ti4200. it will have 2 optical drives and 2-3 hdds, some being 10k rpm scsi.

I try to keep my P4 3.0 under 50C under load. It runs great at 3.3 GHz at this temp and slightly higher. It's idling at 30C right now, which is way cooler than the north bridge at 42C.

In contrast, my P4 2.4 stayed at about 40-42C under load with stock cooling (with q-fan activated). I think the P4 goes into self-protection mode at 65-70.

You've got quite a lot of fans in that case, so you should see lower core temps if you use a good cooler. Even the stock P4 HSF is pretty good as a cooler (especially if the thermal wax is replaced with AS-5), though the higher pitched noise of its 70mm fan forces sensitive uses to upgrade to units using 80 and 92mm fans.

 

[fredtam]

what type of cpu temps are acceptable for reliability? the case will be a antec 835 with 7 80MM fans and a geforce ti4200. it will have 2 optical drives and 2-3 hdds, some being 10k rpm scsi.

The safe temp limit is around 70c for the 2.8c. If you have decent cooling the chip will usually max out before temp becomes an issue. I try to stay between 45-60c under load.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: Thegonagle

Originally posted by: bob4432
what type of cpu temps are acceptable for reliability? the case will be a antec 835 with 7 80MM fans and a geforce ti4200. it will have 2 optical drives and 2-3 hdds, some being 10k rpm scsi.

I try to keep my P4 3.0 under 50C under load. It runs great at 3.3 GHz at this temp and slightly higher. It's idling at 30C right now, which is way cooler than the north bridge at 42C.

In contrast, my P4 2.4 stayed at about 40-42C under load with stock cooling (with q-fan activated). I think the P4 goes into self-protection mode at 65-70.

You've got quite a lot of fans in that case, so you should see lower core temps if you use a good cooler. Even the stock P4 HSF is pretty good as a cooler (especially if the thermal wax is replaced with AS-5), though the higher pitched noise of its 70mm fan forces sensitive uses to upgrade to units using 80 and 92mm fans.

fan noise is not a problem, actually i find the sound calming.... call me crazy :Q

 

[bob4432]

how do you guys/gals feel about buying a refurb p4 from newegg? and get a good hsf. or should i just get a new retail chip?

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: bob4432
how do you guys/gals feel about buying a refurb p4 from newegg? and get a good hsf. or should i just get a new retail chip?

How do I feel? I feel that the new retail chip has a three year warranty and an effective HSF while the others don't.

The retail versions are usually only $2-10 more than the OEM versions at Newegg, so even though it's worth it for the warranty alone, you also can decide to upgrade the HSF at a later time, or decide that it's just fine and keep it. At such a small price premium, you won't find a cheaper HSF and 3 year warranty option than what comes with the retail box.

Hint: Buy an Asus P4P800 motherboard with that retail chip and slow the fan down with Asus Q-Fan. It makes a huge difference on the stock cooler if you're sensitive to PC noise. I'm sure other board makers also have similar technology, but I'm not sure which ones. Another hint if you're sensitive to PC noise: Don't buy a motherboard with a fan on the north bridge. Passive cooling will work fine.

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the insight, no fan noise is not a problem for me whatsoever

 

[bob4432]

not the oem, but a refurb, which is about $50+ cheaper. i will only keep this machine for about 12-18 mo

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: bob4432
not the oem, but a refurb, which is about $50+ cheaper. i will only keep this machine for about 12-18 mo

If you get it and it doesnt work, newegg will exchange it for the exact same item only. But they are usually good about it.

If you plan overclock consider the fact that whoever returned the chip may have because it was a poor OCer, and there always the increased risk of a DOA chip.

 

[Thegonagle]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: bob4432
not the oem, but a refurb, which is about $50+ cheaper. i will only keep this machine for about 12-18 mo

If you get it and it doesnt work, newegg will exchange it for the exact same item only. But they are usually good about it.

If you plan overclock consider the fact that whoever returned the chip may have because it was a poor OCer, and there always the increased risk of a DOA chip.

I'm not positive, but I believe that the warrany on most refurbs from Newegg is very short, something like 15 or 30 days from the ship date. (Basically, it's just a no-DOA guarantee, not a significant warranty.)

Once you add a semi-decent HSF, you're only going to save $20-25. Do what you like. It depends how good you feel about hanging on to $25 while you gamble with virtually no warranty. The odds are certainly in your favor--you'll probably win, but if you do lose, you're out at minimum the cost of shipping it back for a replacement, at most the entire cost of the processor.

Newegg will spell out the exact terms of the refurb warranty on the specific item so read that carefully. (In other words, don't trust me on the refurb warranty terms, go by what Newegg has to say).

(I'm not telling you to do one thing or the other. Just offering info to base your decision on. I know what I would do, because I've already bought 2 retail P4c chips in the past 9 months, and I feel very good about my choice. You need to make yours.)

 

[bob4432]

thanks for the additional perspective. i usually don't o/c so i didn't even think that they they would have returned it because of that....thanks again

 

[kuritadelta]

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?


i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

PC1600 = 200 PC2100 = 400 PC2700 = 533 PC3200 = 800

 

[bob4432]

what would you all think of a intel 865 board, p4 2.8c and then 1GB of ram. my question is should i get pc3200 or faster. i would like to o/c the chip to something reliable, maybe 3.0? what should the setting be for fsb, voltage and the like. i would like to keep the price as low as possible, but want a good setup and also understand that in 12-18mo i will probably upgrade again so i don't want to spend a ton on end of life items. i need a board recommendation - i don't need sata as i run scsi, i don't need raid, i don't need lan, 1394 or all the expensive audio options as i have cards for lan, 1394 that i would rather use than onboard stuff.

thanks in advance

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
what would you all think of a intel 865 board, p4 2.8c and then 1GB of ram. my question is should i get pc3200 or faster. i would like to o/c the chip to something reliable, maybe 3.0? what should the setting be for fsb, voltage and the like. i would like to keep the price as low as possible, but want a good setup and also understand that in 12-18mo i will probably upgrade again so i don't want to spend a ton on end of life items. i need a board recommendation - i don't need sata as i run scsi, i don't need raid, i don't need lan, 1394 or all the expensive audio options as i have cards for lan, 1394 that i would rather use than onboard stuff.

If you are only trying for 3.0 which is a 214 FSB any quality 3200 RAM should be able to OC to that. Any higher and I would recommend 3500 or 3700. That way you can keep the 1:1 ratio. You want to do this because if you had 3200 and moved to 5:4 you would need to reach a 250 FSB to run the memory at its rated speed but if you had 3500 or 3700 your FSB could be raised to 216 (3.0GHz) or 233 (3.2GHz) respectively while retaining the 1:1 ratio and keeping GAT. Usually you can go a little higher because most memory will OC.

Again a 2.8c and an IS7 would probably be best for you. The fact is most boards come with sata, 1394, and 6 channel audio. You are not paying a premium for it because it has become standard. This is evidenced by the fact that the IS7-E you looked at that lacks these features plus some is <$10 cheaper than the IS-7 which includes them all.

 

[mooojojojo]

Originally posted by: kuritadelta

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?
i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

PC1600 = 200 PC2100 = 400 PC2700 = 533 PC3200 = 800

shouldn't it be
PC1600 = DDR200 = 400MHz FSB
PC2100 = DDR266 = 533MHz FSB
PC2700 = DDR333 = 667MHz FSB
PC3200 = DDR400 = 800MHz FSB

 

[kuritadelta]

Originally posted by: mooojojojo

Originally posted by: kuritadelta

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?
i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

PC1600 = 200 PC2100 = 400 PC2700 = 533 PC3200 = 800

shouldn't it be
PC1600 = DDR200 = 400MHz FSB
PC2100 = DDR266 = 533MHz FSB
PC2700 = DDR333 = 667MHz FSB
PC3200 = DDR400 = 800MHz FSB

Yes you are correct.. I was implying recommended ram use for FSB systems.
My bad.. I guess i was misleading

 

[bob4432]

how much of a performance hit would i take if i ran it in single channel mode for a short time? atleast until i sell my other stuff? will probably go 2.8c with pc3700 ram, 512 stick first then another one later.

 

[AWhackWhiteBoy]

you want superior encoding performance? let me guess,your using Divx on an AMD chip and its really,really slow,right?

 

[bob4432]

using squeeze and windows media encoder on a xp2000 and also on a 2xp3 setup. also using premiere. it is slower than what i need because i may only encode a small percentage of videos compared to what else i do, but that takes a lot longer, rendering my computer useless for that time.

 

[AWhackWhiteBoy]

ok then,thats a different story. it sounded like you wanted just encoding performance,not editing/rendering too. dvix is optimized for Pentium,and Xvid is optimized for AMD.

i got 2.5 fps encoding with a crappy encoding program and divx on my old athlon 1700. i switched to xvid and used virtualdub and got 35fps.

my $100 barton zips along at 55fps...

 

[bob4432]

i should have been more clear originally, thanks for the input