Dumb Qustions regarding P4, sorry usually build amds

[bob4432]

what is the difference between the intel 865 vs 875 chipsets?

 

[InlineFive]

Originally posted by: bob4432
what is the difference between the intel 865 vs 875 chipsets?

The 875 "officially" has PAT (Performance Acceleration Technology) which reduces the amount of steps the chipset needs to take to access the memory. Some motherboards manufacturer's have enabled this on the 865 chipset. However they market it under different names to avoid problems from Intel. The performance increase is usually negligable thought so it may or may not be worth the extra price.

-Por

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?


i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

I what configuration is your memory? (i.e. what are the sizes of the sticks you have?) The Intel 865PE and the 875 are dual channel chipsets, so they require matched pairs to run in dual channel mode. So, if you have say 1 x 512MB and 3 x 256MB, you will not be able to use all of your memory in dual channel mode - you would only be able to use 2 x 256, which is only a total of 512MB. If you have this kind of configuration, and want to use your current RAM, I would suggest a P4 3.06 FSB 533, and a Intel 845 based mobo. The only problem I foresee is finding a board that will have enough DIMM slots to hold your RAM - it really depends a lot on your RAM configuration on what you can do.

 

[bob4432]

just ordered a abit is7-g

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?


i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

I what configuration is your memory? (i.e. what are the sizes of the sticks you have?) The Intel 865PE and the 875 are dual channel chipsets, so they require matched pairs to run in dual channel mode. So, if you have say 1 x 512MB and 3 x 256MB, you will not be able to use all of your memory in dual channel mode - you would only be able to use 2 x 256, which is only a total of 512MB. If you have this kind of configuration, and want to use your current RAM, I would suggest a P4 3.06 FSB 533, and a Intel 845 based mobo. The only problem I foresee is finding a board that will have enough DIMM slots to hold your RAM - it really depends a lot on your RAM configuration on what you can do.

Excellent insight. May I suggest another idea: spend the $300 to buy the movies you want, already pre-burned onto DVDs. They do sell them that way.

Ok, ok... now put the rope down, I was only joking! :Q My actual suggestion: sell off the PC2100 in For Sale/Trade, and spend the money on two 512MB Kingston HyperX PC3700 modules. Add a 2.4C, an i865PE board, and overclock it to somewhere in the 3GHz+ area. I don't know what you can sell the PC2100 for, but I think that roughly would fit your budget with the funds from the memory sale... those modules are $114 each, the CPU is about $165, and motherboards for around $100.

 

[bob4432]

i have 3x256 and 1x512. could i run it in single channel mode?

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: bob4432
1. 400MHz FSB = PC 1600, 533MHz FSB = PC2100? 800MHz FSB = PC3200? is this correct?
2. Which chipset is the most stable?


i have 1.25GB of pc2100 laying around and want to use it, want p4 because of superior encoding performance.

thanks

I what configuration is your memory? (i.e. what are the sizes of the sticks you have?) The Intel 865PE and the 875 are dual channel chipsets, so they require matched pairs to run in dual channel mode. So, if you have say 1 x 512MB and 3 x 256MB, you will not be able to use all of your memory in dual channel mode - you would only be able to use 2 x 256, which is only a total of 512MB. If you have this kind of configuration, and want to use your current RAM, I would suggest a P4 3.06 FSB 533, and a Intel 845 based mobo. The only problem I foresee is finding a board that will have enough DIMM slots to hold your RAM - it really depends a lot on your RAM configuration on what you can do.

Excellent insight. May I suggest another idea: spend the $300 to buy the movies you want, already pre-burned onto DVDs. They do sell them that way.

Ok, ok... now put the rope down, I was only joking! :Q My actual suggestion: sell off the PC2100 in For Sale/Trade, and spend the money on two 512MB Kingston HyperX PC3700 modules. Add a 2.4C, an i865PE board, and overclock it to somewhere in the 3GHz+ area. I don't know what you can sell the PC2100 for, but I think that roughly would fit your budget with the funds from the memory sale... those modules are $114 each, the CPU is about $165, and motherboards for around $100.

i need to go through my old computer stuff to clean out -> should have quite a bit of items for sale, misc optical drives, m/bs, hdds. stuff needs to go...

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: bob4432
i have 3x256 and 1x512. could i run it in single channel mode?

I don't think that is going to give the results you're aiming for.

 

[bob4432]

will it be faster than the xp2000 with 1GB i currently have running in dual channel mode? if it does, then i can buy/sell the ram later. i have read many articles between dual channel and single channel ram, but is it different running pentium vs athlon? i guess that is why the intel based boards have either 2 or 4 dimm slots..... starting to get it.... definately different than amd nvidia stuff....

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: bob4432
will it be faster than the xp2000 with 1GB i currently have running in dual channel mode? if it does, then i can buy/sell the ram later. i have read many articles between dual channel and single channel ram, but is it different running pentium vs athlon? i guess that is why the intel based boards have either 2 or 4 dimm slots..... starting to get it.... definately different than amd nvidia stuff....

I don't know, partly because I don't know what CPU you're getting. If you do get some PC3700, then you could throw an AthlonXP 1800+ with the Tbred core into your nForce2 and crank that up to about 220MHz synchronous memory/FSB X 9.0 to 10.0 multiplier, given some reasonable CPU cooling. Given that the CPU costs $50 and you have the mobo already, and will need the RAM to really make the P4 thing work optimally anyway... could be worth thinking about. 2200MHz of Thoroughbred with a 220MHz memory pipe... not bad

The Pentium4's architecture likes tons of memory bandwidth and it will reward you for using 1) fast memory, and 2) dual-channel mode. It is different from Athlon, yes... the dual-channel AMD platforms don't really need the excess bandwidth to perform well in typical consumer applications, although it can be a big boost if the board has onboard video (nForce2 IGP being the prime example). Remember Hyperthreading too. Do you mind linking to the review(s) you've seen, so we can look at what they used for a configuration?

 

[bob4432]

i believe the reviews were probably regarding the athlon.

the chip i will be using will either be something like a 2.8c or 3.xc.

i ordered the board off of newegg's refurbs section for $60. should i cancel it or is that a pretty good price for that board. i really don't need its features since i already have a 1394 card and have scsi hdd/s but it seemed like a pretty good deal.

unfortunately i need atleast 1GB of memory since i do quite a bit of editing with photoshop, illustrator and premiere. i am sure i could trade somebody the 512 stick for 2 256s so i would have 4 256 sticks, that wouldn't be a problem.

would that work out atleast temporarily until i get some pc3200, or should i get a 533MHz chip in the first place?

would i be correct in saying that the 800MHz chip would run the same as a 533MHz chip if the memory is pc2100 and i would notice a difference when going to pc3200 since the chip would still be running at the same speed but bus to the memory would be increased?

thanks again for all the assistance. this is only going to be my 2nd pentium system out of many, many amd systems.....

 

[mechBgon]

For an i865/i875 chipset to run dual-channel mode, the modules need to be of identical logical organization, not just identical capacities, so even with four 256MB modules, you will need two pairs of modules where the modules in pair #1 match eachother, and the modules in pair #2 match eachother. Throw in one oddball (a dual-bank module along with three single-bank modules, for example), and you're back to single-channel mode. You could have one pair of single-bank and one pair of dual-bank as long as you get them in slots 1 & 3, and 2 & 4 respectively.

The motherboard you ordered... well first of all, a refurb? It won't come with the I/O shield, the cable kit, or any other goodies, and that board doesn't use a standard I/O layout either. I would bail and get a new one if it were me.

The Pentium4C's are the performers, but the reviews you're going to see them in are going to be using a decent test setup with dual-channel PC3200, not a freak-show setup (no offense meant) with single- or dual-channel PC2100. Why bother cramming a Chevy 454 into your engine bay if you're going to bolt on the intake system from a lame, tame Olds Delta88 sedan? Eh? *hears a bell ring inside bob4432's head somewhere*

Also I presume you have WinXP so you can use Hyperthreading (properly). If not, that is going to cut into the results too.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
i believe the reviews were probably regarding the athlon.

the chip i will be using will either be something like a 2.8c or 3.xc. i ordered the board off of newegg's refurbs section for $60. should i cancel it or is that a pretty good price for that board. i really don't need its features since i already have a 1394 card and have scsi hdd/s but it seemed like a pretty good deal. unfortunately i need atleast 1GB of memory since i do quite a bit of editing with photoshop, illustrator and premiere. i am sure i could trade somebody the 512 stick for 2 256s so i would have 4 256 sticks, that wouldn't be a problem. would you suggest that? or should i get a 533MHz chip in the first place?

1. Buy a 2.8C. It is only a few $s more than the 2.4 or 2.6 and you get the extra MHz. The 2.8 will perform very close to the 3.0 so its not worth the extra to go to 3.0. Also by buying the 2.8 over a lower model you increase the multiplier which in turn allows you to buy lower speed ram (cheaper) and maintain the 1:1 ratio needed to keep "GAT" while OCing. Some will say that you want the lower multiplier to get insane FSB and bandwidth increases thinking that a 2.4 @ 3.2 will outperform a 2.8 @ 3.2 because of the increased bandwidth but the difference is almost nonexistent in all benches I have seen.

2. Yes the IS7-G is a good deal for $60. It is simply an IS7 with Gigabit LAN (which for most people is useless) but if your paying less than you would for a board without it why not. However to my knowledge it does not support presscott which would be a logical upgrade in 12-18 months and you won't get any goodies with it.

3. Do not get a 533MHz chip. Use the money you saved by buying the IS7-g and a 2.8C and buy 1 more stick of 256Mb 2100. You already have 3 sticks. This should still keep you under $300. Keep the 512 stick laying around and when you get ready to upgrade sell them all to offset the cost of the new ram.

 

[fredtam]

mechBgon, what do you mean by "and that board doesn't use a standard I/O layout either"?

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: fredtam
mechBgon, what do you mean by "and that board doesn't use a standard I/O layout either"?

I mean that the rear jack layout is not quite "normal," or it sure doesn't look that way to me: Newegg the ever-useful shows a very non-normal I/O shield, and the USB 2.0 and Firewire outlet is desireable too (particularly since this would get the Firewire off the PCI bus, it being native to the chipset on this board).

And then there is the obvious: it's a refurb, so you pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: fredtam
mechBgon, what do you mean by "and that board doesn't use a standard I/O layout either"?

I mean that the rear jack layout is not quite "normal," or it sure doesn't look that way to me: Newegg the ever-useful shows a very non-normal I/O shield, and the USB 2.0 and Firewire outlet is desireable too (particularly since this would get the Firewire off the PCI bus, it being native to the chipset on this board).

And then there is the obvious: it's a refurb, so you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I use an IC7-g and an IS7 and they came with an IO shield so I guess I never thought of it as odd. I didn't know there was a standard setup for the I/O on the boards themselves so I guess that does present a problem if OEM doesn't come with a shield. Then you have to spend $10 to get one taking away from the great price. I doubt I would go with a refurb either. I like the piece of mind that comes with new stuff and its much easier/ quicker to RMA to Newegg than Abit. I think you can only RMA the refurbs to Newegg for 30 days (may be wrong).

Good point about getting the firewire off the PCI bus.

 

[bob4432]

you all made some good points and i did cancel the order on the refurbished board. all of the 256MB sticks i have have 8 chips on them on the same side if that matters and the 512 stick has 16, eight on each side. i didn't realize that dual channel was such a big deal with pentium 4, so i guess i will do some research and get it done correctly.

thanks

 

[bob4432]

just out of curiosity, how are via and sis chipsets compared to the intel 865?

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
you all made some good points and i did cancel the order on the refurbished board. all of the 256MB sticks i have have 8 chips on them on the same side if that matters and the 512 stick has 16, eight on each side. i didn't realize that dual channel was such a big deal with pentium 4, so i guess i will do some research and get it done correctly.

thanks

Here use my research:

1. Dual channel doubles the bandwidth available (theoretically).
2. To match the bandwidth of 800Mhz chip You need 3200 Ram
3. The ram should be the same type, speed and timings.
4. If your OCing you want higher speed ram to match the increased FSB of the chip.
5. The difference made by going from cheaper 3200 (crucial) to expensive (corsair LL) is small.
6.The performance of a P4C system using your current ram will still be better than your old system just not by the margins 3200 would yield.
7. IMHO it would be better to have the RAM as the limiting factor until an upgrade is possible than to limit yourself to an 845 board and a 533MHz chip.
8. It looks like selling your 2100 would significantly offset the price of good 3200 ram (crucial).

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
just out of curiosity, how are via and sis chipsets compared to the intel 865?

Read. I would still go with the 865.

 

[bob4432]

you guys are great. thanks for all the help

i won't be ocing but want good stable stuff for the encoding, which, like i have said in the past is why i am going to go p4.

since i am not going to oc, should i go with a prescott over a northwood or would i notice it?

 

[MDE]

Go Northwood, it'll run cooler.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: bob4432
you guys are great. thanks for all the help

i won't be ocing but want good stable stuff for the encoding, which, like i have said in the past is why i am going to go p4.

since i am not going to oc, should i go with a prescott over a northwood or would i notice it?

No at the current speeds you are considering (2.8-3.0) the Northwood outperforms the Prescott.

 

[Thegonagle]

Don't bother with the Prescott "E" chip. They've made some changes (namely, a longer instruction pipeline) that will allow it to reach higher clock speeds in the future than the Northwood "C" chip could dream of, but those changes slightly hurt the performance on a clock-for-clock basis. In other words, a 3.2 "E" will be ever so slightly slower than a 3.2 "C". Save your money.

 

[imported_Phil]

Or you could look at it from the point of view that the Prescott might reach insane overclock levels with some pretty good forced-air cooling...

(Sorry, I'll shut up now before I confuse things further lol)