Dual Processor System with Dual PCI Express

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WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
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Originally posted by: ribbon13
Yes, it's a workstation card. It's incredibly fast for 3D modeling apps.
Click to expand...

Do you do 3D modeling for your job or something or is it just for fun basically?

 
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imported_Vern

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2004
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I think two things you need to consider when looking at building a machine to play poker with. It would be more useful to have one machine dedicated to playing poker, dual head 6600GT would do the trick with your two 2001FPS, that is 3200x1600 in real estate. This could be done inexpensively, since you would really only need 512MB, a decent MB and processor. Even something as simple as a P4 2.4 or similar AMD. Then a second machine just for you database that does not have the advanced graphics, just a cheap $50, ATI or NVidia card. This would be your database server. The author or Poker Tracker has stated v3, which he he working on, will have a MySQL option. This would enable you to keep the database and processor load for examining/evaluating new data as it comes in on the second machine and even if it crapped out and you needed to re-boot it, you would not have the poker playing machine go down.

Right now with the access engine, this is still possible, but too much processor time would be used by the local machine getting/processing the data along with large data transfers across the networ to result in a noticable preformance change from buying a tricked out machine right now and running it all on one machine. When Poker Tacker is converted for MySQL, having the server is the best option. You would see minimal processor load on the machine designed for play and the database machine could be 'grown' to meet your growing need.

I would suggest from the FAQ at the top of the page you build one Mid-High End machine for playing and one Low-Midranged machine for your database server. On the play machine, stress a good graphics processor, on the database server stress memory and storage.

my $0.02

Vern
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Vern,

Pokertracker Pat has stated that MySQL will be available even before version 3, probably in the form of a version 2 patch.

I have considered your idea. This inexpensive solution is preferable in my mind, as I am a cheap bastard. In fact, I have this setup right now. However, there are some issues with it.

Current Setup in the vein of what you are describing:

Main Computer / Play Computer
-------------------
Athlon 2400+ with 1.5 GB of RAM
Radeon AIW 9600XT with 2 2001FPs running at 1600 X 1200 each.

This computer runs the poker room software and the gametime software, which overlays PokerTracker information over the poker room windows. Windows are spread 4 to a screen (800 X 600 each). It is actually the Play machine that is the most CPU intensive. The poker room and gametime software are, by far, the most taxing applications run.


Secondary Computer / Poker Tracker Computer
--------------------------
Old Pentium 2 850 MHz (Something around there)
Old monitor

This computer has PokerTracker on it. I have set the ODBC to a mapped networked drive on the main machine where the database is located. PokerTracker pulls hand histories from shared folders on the Main Computer and updates the Database on the main computer. PokerTracker doesn?t actually use much CPU bandwidth here. This leads me to believe that the bottleneck might be in the transfer speed or Play Computer CPU cycle unavailability.

---------------------------

That was the theory anyway.

In practice, it doesn?t work for several reasons.

1. My Athlon 2400+ is just a tad too slow for 8 or 9 windows. 7 windows runs well. My solution for this problem would have been to go to Fry?s and get an upgraded motherboard / CPU combo. Probably the Athlon 64 3000+ or something and do an upgrade. This small increase in speed would probably be enough to accomplish the amount of windows I want.

2. The remote PokerTracker imports really slow when there are many poker windows open. It imports at a rate of 1 or 2 hands a minute, which is unacceptable as I generate about 5 hands per minute. I can?t figure out how to speed this up. When I first started, playing 4 windows, it would import hands at a rate of 5.7 per minute. But when I scaled it up the next day that figure dropped to the 1 or 2 per minute I alluded to earlier. Do you have any idea what would cause this slowdown?

Possible bottlenecks would be:

a. not enough bandwidth for transfer over LAN ? this is possible, but the fact that importation slowed down when the Play machine became increasingly taxed for resources would indicate something else perhaps.

b. not enough CPU power on the DataBase machine. ? This seems unlikely as the CPU usage on this machine is always very low.

c. not enough free CPU poker on the Play machine ? is this possible? If PokerTracker is updating a remote database that resides on the Play machine, does this actually take CPU power from the Play machine?

------------------------------

So, why is the database reside on the Play Machine, you might wonder?

Because, the Database importation of new hands does not need to be super fast. It just needs to import at 6 hands per minute, nothing more (which it cannot do at the moment).

However, the gametime software needs to look at the PokerTracker database independently. It overlays this information over the actual poker screen. The problem here is that any delay in this information and it can freeze up the poker room software. When you add this to a room, it freezes up momentarily sometimes. At the wrong time a hand could be folded due to this.

The reason I have the database reside on the play machine is that gametime access needs to be fast. If it is not fast, it can freeze and fold my hands and cost me money. The PokerTracker import does not need to be fast, just fast enough.

If I could somehow figure out a way to speed this remote import, I would be happy with the current system and maybe settle for a new MOBO CPU combo to give it a little extra juice. Are these remote access queries dependent on free resources on the Play machine I wonder?

However, since I can?t seem to get this to work properly, I am considering the higher end computer option instead.

I am not done troubleshooting this makeshift two computer solution yet, however. Perhaps I can make it work yet .

Any ideas?

 
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imported_Vern

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2004
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I am looking forward to when PT is MySQL. Gametime, or PV, would then have to be updated as well. Since their Queries would be sent to the server, run there and returned, the database would not have to be on the play machine.

First, I think the tables open is not the biggest issue but the CPU assist to net traffic and disk read/writing. I am assuming all 8 windows write their HH to a file on the local machine. That is 8 processes keeping 8 files open constantly adding data to them. I have found if you take a break after a set amount of time, close the tables. This removes some of the client overhead of having to add to ever growing files and prevents PT from having to scan through a huge file to get at the new stuff every time it imports. Have you tried putting the db on the server machine and ODBC mapping that location so GT can find it there? The only downside to that is that GT will send a query to the server, and instead of processing the data and sending back just the requested info, the Access engine sends a lot more, sometimes the whole database. Right now, one powerful machine may be the best answer, but in just a little while, I think having a dedicated SQL server will be the best way since the SQL engine does all the query work and just returns what is asked for.
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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OK. I get it.

The E4 stepping chips have a slightly different model number and are made with the 0.90 micron process.

Anyone have any idea when these will be available to buy?

Anyone know how long it usually takes between press release and retailer?

I want to build this system ASAP.

Thanks!
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
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The lifecycle of the systen I specced for you is server class. The upgradeability is second to none. A desktop system will be obsolete much sooner. So if you're really cheap, think if the long run. By this time next year you could have a 4-cpu 2.6Ghz system. With the dual PCIe x16 you should be set for gaming for the next 6 years, easily. And when desktop peeps are getting the latest and greatest, you could get some 15krpm SCSI or SAS, and your machine would seriously smoke thiers. With dual core coming to the desktop, and the new Unreal engine being optimized for SMP, you will be set for sure.

ASAP == Don't wait for E4 stepping. They're very difficult to obtain right now. As I said before, get the dually now, and a year from now you can get a pair of Italies if you need more horsepower.
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Thanks again ribbon13.

So, if I were to wait a bit, how long in your best estimate would it take for these to get to retailers?

A couple of weeks?

Or a month, month and a half?

Thanks so much for all your help!
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Thanks again ribbon13.

Do you think the extra 200 in Bus Speed will make much difference, practically speaking?

A month is a long time. I don't think I can do that.

Thanks again/
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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Not really. Maybe for the x48-x52s, and thats only marginal. No need to wait. Gonna go with the dually? It's a jump of no return! You'll never want to go back to uniprocessors again!
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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All right ribbon13!

You talked me into it!

I'm going to do it!

The only change in your recommendations that I am considering is getting two XFX 6600 GTs instead of the eVGA.

Selling point: Dual DVI per card.

Since I will be eventually running 4 LCDs at 1600 X 1200, being able to run them all through DVI is a definite plus.

Any thoughts?

An acceptable alternative?

Thanks again!
 
Spikesoldier

Spikesoldier

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2001
6,766
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@ the XFX 6600GT"s:

exactly what i was giong to suggest.

running 3 even 4 1600x1200 2001FP's is great, but DVI is best.

i mean come on its apparent the guy is a pro poker player, and he must do this most of the day - id imagine if you put it to VGA it would look like crap. i know my poker application did when i used my fathers LCD with VGA. put it on DVI and its a world of difference.

definately go with the XFX, i have one in my system although its an AGP version.

anyway, looking at a screen all day on VGA on an LCD is horrible.

at work we have some real nice precision workstations, 3.06 single xeon (dual capable) HT enabled, fireGL X1 (dual DVI), 1gb ecc ram, 15K SCSI raid 0, dell 1900FP.

anyway its freakin stupid how they do the monitor. its a dual DVI card, and the monitor supports DVI, yet they insist on using a DVI to VGA adaper and vga cable....probably the IT guys stole the DVI cable when the monitor came in..i dont see the reasoning behind that..yeah and they give us a $6K computer, but give us a fscking $2 BALL MOUSE to do graphic work. this adds to the theory that input devices / displays / human interaction / audio devices are not to be skimped on, and can bring a BOSS system to shame and to its knees.
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Thanks for the input Spikesoldier, I appreciate it.

Honestly, I've never seen an LCD run through DVI, so I'm looking forward to it. My current Radeon 9600 XT AIW doesn't have DVI at all.

I know that, having to look at monitors all day, I could never go back to CRT. Let's hope I feel the same way about DVI (and Dual Processors, ribbon13).

ribbon13,

I decided to go with the SCSI as well. I actually have a Fujitsu fi-4120C2 scanner that has SCSI and I mine as well use it. What's $100 when you are already spending $2600?

Speaking of which, do you think I should get a SCSI hardrive instead of the Raptor?

Which would you recommend?

The Cheetah you have in your rig?

Thanks!
 
Markfw

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,258
16,116
136
One more thought. If you go up to 246 or better, than you can run DDR400. The 244 and below will only run DDR333.
Maxtor Atlas 15k II I think are the current champs for HD's
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Know any good places to get those Atlas IIs?

I don't see them at Newegg or ZipZoomFly.

I would need the 68 pin SCSI drive, right?

So, the DDR400 I am buying would still work with 244s, right? It will just run at 333 instead?

Thanks.
 
Markfw

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,258
16,116
136
SCSI4me.com has an 8.96 rating on resellerratings.com, and They have many good drives. I couldn;t find the Maxtor Atlas 15k II, just the first one, but I don;t think thats a big deal. Also yes it would just run at 333. If you have the money for the 246's it would be nice after spening that much on motherboard and memory. Also you wouldn;t have to upgrade as soon.
 
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Remedy

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 1999
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The 244 and below will only run DDR333.
Click to expand...

Not true. All Opteron processors based on that are built on c0(C-Zero) and later stepping all support DDR 400 @ CL3. The only reason it wasn't written in stone or stated as PC2700 only was because JEDEC didn't approve of it @ the time of writing. It now officially supports DDR 400 thruout the whole product line that have the masking of c0 and later.(Which is pretty much all x40+ grade Opterons.
 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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OK.

My last question has be answered elsewhere.

My question now, is The Fujitsu MAU or the Maxtor Atlas 15K II.

The fujitsu is $50 cheaper.

Newegg - $238

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-116-149&depa=0

Or the Maxtor - $291.10

http://www.techonweb.com/products/productdetail.aspx?id=B48525

Is the Maxtor worth the extra $50?

68 PIN, right?

If I wanted to do hot swappable drives, I could always get this:

http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/server/detel.php?kind=servercases&serial=42

and the 68 PIN drive would still work.

Are these 15K SCSI drives OK to just put bare in the case? It won't be too hot or anything?

Thanks!
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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XFX dual dvi is a great choice. I was actually trying to find a dual dvi card when I put that list together, but was distracted at the time. (Cat's like to walk on my keyboard to get attention.)

SCSI is awesome. Be sure to get the SCSI model of the board then. Unless you want raid 5, its just as economical to us the U version of the K8WE, because the LSI 53C1030 is a decent IC HBA, and it's connected to the PCI-X bus. Seriously kickass.
$580 Tyan Thunder K8WE S2895UA2NRF
$100 more well spent. And yes its U320 68-pin.

I only buy Seagate (only exception for the Raptor), but yes, Maxtor get's my approval in the SCSI realm. For non water-cooled systems, I'd use a Vantec Vortex on em if you concerned about heat.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-888-110&depa=0

 
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Inayat

Member
Jan 31, 2002
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Should I be worried about heat?

I don't want to be.

I am a bit of a musician as well and may also be running some music apps on this.

I envision having a seperate SCSI drive with seperate OS for this purpose. Hence, when using it as a music workstation, I would like to physically swap the drive.

What do you think about the Enlight Hot Swap drive bay?

http://us.enlightcorp.com/products/server/detel.php?kind=servercases&serial=42

Thanks for all your help ribbon13!
 
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