Tying it in to the PS3 is probably mostly so they can profit from the people who pirate and burn their games. If it doesn't support hd dvd, and that's what takes off: PS3 sales will hurt for it. I wonder how well protected the media will be on either of these formats.
There is a lot of room for dual layer discs out there. HD-DVD & Blu-Ray aren't going to jump in & take the world by storm, and they won't for two big reasons: (1) everyone already has a dvd player, & (2) a lot of people will fear buying the wrong standard and wait a long time before buying either technology even if they have the money to (thank you competition).
Look, dvd-r's used to be $15+ / disc. Dual layers are still really ~6 months old, they've come down from $20 to $10 per disc, and would be great for people who are converting their vhs's to dvd's, when you don't have a perfect digital copy to start out with.
Look, dvd-r's used to be $15+ / disc. Dual layers are still really ~6 months old, they've come down from $20 to $10 per disc, and would be great for people who are converting their vhs's to dvd's, when you don't have a perfect digital copy to start out with.
Right, okay, that's absurd........no, it's the same reason why Microsoft got into the game business in the first place. Sony's a main interest in the Blu-Ray group, and with the likely massive success of the PS3, Sony is assured a huge installed base. People won't need to worry about investing in the wrong format or shedding a DVD player, they'll already have a Blu-Ray player in their house.
As usual, hacker-kiddies over-emphasize the importance of piracy. That's something that the game studios and the hackers have in common.
gsellis
Diamond Member
- Dec 4, 2003
- 6,061
- 0
- 0
IIRC, that was multiple layers > 6. I do wonder if that will pan out. On the deep layers, I wonder if they will not have refraction issues on the reads through the layers. But then again, the now defunct Constellation 3D stored data on a roll of clear packaging tape...
There are a lot of people who just need the movie, though. Mostly parents who have small children who are rough on DVD disks, who want to be able to burn a copy of just the movie that they can give their kids to watch in their rooms or on a long car trip while keeping the original in a safe place in case the copy gets scratched up and needs replacing. For them, reauthoring to a single layer DVD works just fine.
wow, that's one of the dumbest things I've read on this board in a long time. not everyone pirates games, some of us actually pay for them
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
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DL DVD burners are only a minimal ($20-30 tops) over DVD ROM drives or single layer DVD burners. The NEC 3520A which is a really good quality burner can be had for $60-70 which is not that expensive relatively speaking.
I don't see Blu-Ray or HD-DVD making a big dent in regular DVD sales for at least two years. People have only just started ditching their VCR's for DVD players for a couple of years. They are not going to toss out their DVD's and rebuy their movie collection on the next gee-whiz-bang format. Heck, look at computers where there is a huge installed base of DVD's and only just now in the last year are we getting software released on DVD's rather than spanning 5-6 CD's.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will require a hefty investment in upgrading manufactoring plants. We also don't have pricing on the initial batch of players nor do we know when and at what price the burners and their discs will come out at.
Don't mistaken the quick pace at which consumers embraced DVD's over VHS. VHS was around for a long long time and the quality was nowhere near as good as a DVD. DVD's also had a price factor involved as it was cheaper to press DVD's than to make VHS cassettes. A DVD much like a CD is simply a few layers of plastic and metal after all. A VHS cassette consist of more complex parts and thus cost more to manufactor. This gave the companies an incentive to push the DVD format as it saved them money.
The move to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is going to produce less benefits for Hollywood than the move from VHS to DVD did. You're also left with the harsh reality that it will probably be cheaper to manufactor a two or three disc DVD set than to make a single Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disc.
As a consumer you should also be afraid of being burned if the format you chose should lose the format wars (refer to Beta vs VHS). Not to mention there needs to be a sizeable installed user base before either format takes off. From what I see, neither format is going to replace DVD's in the next two years and probably for quite a few years after that.
As someone who downloads a lot of foreign language TV shows not available in the US where I live, I would love to have a next generation format that can hold more data but I have to face reality and facts. And from what I know, it's all pointing to a much slower adoption of the format that is suppose to replace DVD's. I think I'll be using my DVD burner for at least 3-4 years.
I don't see Blu-Ray or HD-DVD making a big dent in regular DVD sales for at least two years. People have only just started ditching their VCR's for DVD players for a couple of years. They are not going to toss out their DVD's and rebuy their movie collection on the next gee-whiz-bang format. Heck, look at computers where there is a huge installed base of DVD's and only just now in the last year are we getting software released on DVD's rather than spanning 5-6 CD's.
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD will require a hefty investment in upgrading manufactoring plants. We also don't have pricing on the initial batch of players nor do we know when and at what price the burners and their discs will come out at.
Don't mistaken the quick pace at which consumers embraced DVD's over VHS. VHS was around for a long long time and the quality was nowhere near as good as a DVD. DVD's also had a price factor involved as it was cheaper to press DVD's than to make VHS cassettes. A DVD much like a CD is simply a few layers of plastic and metal after all. A VHS cassette consist of more complex parts and thus cost more to manufactor. This gave the companies an incentive to push the DVD format as it saved them money.
The move to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is going to produce less benefits for Hollywood than the move from VHS to DVD did. You're also left with the harsh reality that it will probably be cheaper to manufactor a two or three disc DVD set than to make a single Blu-Ray or HD-DVD disc.
As a consumer you should also be afraid of being burned if the format you chose should lose the format wars (refer to Beta vs VHS). Not to mention there needs to be a sizeable installed user base before either format takes off. From what I see, neither format is going to replace DVD's in the next two years and probably for quite a few years after that.
As someone who downloads a lot of foreign language TV shows not available in the US where I live, I would love to have a next generation format that can hold more data but I have to face reality and facts. And from what I know, it's all pointing to a much slower adoption of the format that is suppose to replace DVD's. I think I'll be using my DVD burner for at least 3-4 years.
Whoa.. that was one of the most dumb quote posts I've heard in a while, Don't bag on the immoral VIVA LA PIRACY
What's killing DL is media prices. Twice the space should be twice the price right? I guess not.
When you can get 4.7GB blanks for a quarter apiece in quantity, it's hard to beat the space-price ratio.
When you can get 4.7GB blanks for a quarter apiece in quantity, it's hard to beat the space-price ratio.
gsellis
Diamond Member
- Dec 4, 2003
- 6,061
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Just a minor course adjustment here. Blu-Ray will require a hefty investment in upgrading manufacturing plants. The advantage of HD-DVD is quoted as a swap in components on a line to change from HD-DVD to DVD to HD-DVD. Blu-Ray takes a whole new line to mfgr.
Xbox Next will not be using HD-DVD but rather DVD9.
BTW, Blu-Ray = Betamax. It may have a chance in the PC market but with HD-DVD's backward compatibility and the "DVD" brand name, Blu-Ray doesn't stand a chance. Just because it's superior doesn't mean it will win. Secondly, it being in the PS3 means nothing except that the PS3 will be insanely expensive leading to less than average sales.
When I say HD-DVD is backwards compatible, I mean that your current DVD player will be able to play DVD movies on it. This means that HD-DVD manufacturers can get the new logo and the name out there without customers having to buy new hardware. Add to this that DVD and HD-DVD can essentially share the same manufacturing resources whereas Sony has to make Blu-Ray seperate from everything else.
I'd also like to chime in here......HD-DVD also already has the support of major players in the movie industry behind it. And what do you think manufacturers would rather do? simply swap their lines or create whole new plants to manufacture blu ray. Bluray will fail as it is seen now simply by a business/ marketing perspective. Please tell me how it would economically make sense for the movie industry to go with bluray. Bluray will be the next betamax regardless of the PS3 incorporating it.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
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That makes no sense. Both of the new formats are based on a shorter-wavelength blue laser. Your existing DVD player's optical head will not likely be able to read either of the new formats. You will have to replace all of your standalone players and computer optical drives in order to support either of the new formats. Given that, why not pick the format with higher capacity? Both new-format drives should be able to read prior red-laser-based DVD/CD media, assuming that they include both lasers on the optical head.
I did see a blurb about the possibility of creating hybrid media discs, kind of like SACD discs today, that have one half that is a standard red-laser DVD format, and one half that is a next-gen blue-laser DVD format. But that doesn't mean that "your current drive can read HD-DVD", that only means that your current DVD drive... can read current red-laser DVD media. You might as well have saved yourself some money, and purchased the normal DVD edition of the movie, rather than waste money on the HD-DVD version that you can't even play.
And the "Blu-ray = Betamax" thing... is DAT = Betamax? Is SACD = Betamax? Is MiniDisc/NetMD = Betamax? Is *everything* that Sony makes, = Betamax?
What's wrong with a superior format winning? Or is it the "American way" to ensure that the lesser underdog wins out, because Americans much prefer mediocrity on a grand scale? (Which might well explain the popularity of McDonald's, Wal-Mart, and Microsoft, to say the least.)
akugami
Diamond Member
- Feb 14, 2005
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I stand corrected.
Both formats will still require set top boxes to be sold through in the retail market before people will be buying HD-DVD's or Blu-Ray's. I was one of those that quickly snapped up the DVD ROM drives when they first came out and I was a fairly early adopter of DVD burners. Paid close to $300 for a 4x burner. However, I'm just not seeing a quick adoption for HD-DVD & Blu-Ray and from most of the posts here, neither do a lot of other people.
We might even get to the point where we won't see a true winner between the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray wars. It's quite possible that we'll see something similar to the DVD+/- wars with neither truly winning the battle and optical drive manufactorers making drives that can read and burn to both formats.
I still say the earliest we see burners based on blue laser discs will be 3-4 years in the future and thus there is no reason not to get a DL DVD burner now.
If we keep waiting for the next best thing to come out before making a purchase no one would buy anything. There is always something better down the line. It just depends on how long and how much it will cost and whether it is worth the wait.
I have a feeling that Sony will screw up the Blu-Ray format by pricing them out of the market and by marking it as proprietary as possible. Just like it did with DAT, MD Beta & etc.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
- 56,587
- 10,225
- 126
I tend to suspect that as well, unfortunately. They may end up crippling it with too many copy-protection features as well. I do think that the format is technically superior, but it remains to be seen how cheaply and quickly it will be made available into the market.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 20
- 81
Hopefully one standard will wind up winning out - I don't want to be left with a drug-out war like the DVD-R vs +R battles have become. One standard was supposed to win out, but neither seems to be ahead. Hopefully drives that support Blu-ray/HD-DVD aren't too difficult to produce - they might show up during the initial border skirmishes between the two formats.
Good, more power to them in that respect. Then we're left with HD-DVD, and the format wars are over.
If that happens, I just hope that HD-DVD is a better format.
Good, more power to them in that respect. Then we're left with HD-DVD, and the format wars are over.
If that happens, I just hope that HD-DVD is a better format.
Yet, the XBOX-NEXT is going to be out before the PS3 and use HD-DVD which is backwards compatible with regular DVDs. I believe HD-DVD has a much better chance...
Edit: or are they saying NEXT will use DVD9 now?....Maybe Nintendo is going to use HD-DVD, i know they aren't going to use BluRay for sure.
Both formats are backwards compatible, that's a non-issue. In reality, neither is truly backwards compatible, unless you consider DVD's backwards compatible with CD's. The players will read both, but only because the necessary hardware to read the old format is added to the drive.
Neither format is likely to go away as they both have support from major studios. When dual format players are released like the current +/- DVD drives, the format wars won't matter anymore. Blu-Ray currently has Microsoft, Disney, MGM, Fox and obviously Sony Pictures signed on. That's pretty formidable support that should prevent it from losing, though doesn't guarantee winning. Hopefully it won't lose, as it is the technically superior format.
Neither format is likely to go away as they both have support from major studios. When dual format players are released like the current +/- DVD drives, the format wars won't matter anymore. Blu-Ray currently has Microsoft, Disney, MGM, Fox and obviously Sony Pictures signed on. That's pretty formidable support that should prevent it from losing, though doesn't guarantee winning. Hopefully it won't lose, as it is the technically superior format.
Please point me to where you found Microsoft has signed on to Blu-Ray.........get the info right and back it up please. As far as i've heard they are all for hd-dvd.
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