Dual-core over quad-core right now for gaming but how about the future?

[Tempered81]

if people like appopin, n7, & mark are struggling to get 3.8G on a q9550/q6600/q6700/qx9650, and ocguy31 grabs an e8600 & his first OC attempt is 4300mhz/1.34v stable, then it's obvious dual cores are ocing better. I'm still hoping to see someone bench cpus in games. The best i've found so far is tomshardware's cpu charts, but they only test low resolutions & non-overclocked cpus. Overclocked quads are more powerful in 3dmark06, vantage, UT3, & supreme commander, but [easily] overclocked duals have the advantage in almost all other games.

Why is there even an argument about dual vs. quad in gaming anymore? Because the performance at identical clock speeds is the same, yet the quad costs twice as much, or more.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: n7
8.5 x 450 = 3825 GHz.

So basically, with a solid mobo, good knowledge of OCing, a solid cooler, & some luck, i'd say you can get 3.8 GHz, yes.

But YMMV.

OK, i decided on the Asus P5e deluxe and a q9550; it is what fits my budget. Thanks to all of you for the suggestions!

wish me luck .. although i am a successful O/C'er since ... since ...
.. Celeron 300A

- luck on the O/C'ing
... My credit is still good at NewEgg

Maximus II Forumla cuz you need 2 x 16x pci-e or DFI X38 LT series, NOT DK

some good ram. if you dont know your ram, get ram raited for DDR2 1000.

A solid and good brand PSU.

And a bit of praying.


usually at this point its sometimes cheaper to go lower end parts higher end cpu to yeild greater oc. :T

Oh and this is if you get a E0. Get a C1 and.. well, YMMV.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
if people like appopin, n7, & mark are struggling to get 3.8G on a q9550/q6600/q6700/qx9650, and ocguy31 grabs an e8600 & his first OC attempt is 4300mhz/1.34v stable, then it's obvious dual cores are ocing better. I'm still hoping to see someone bench cpus in games. The best i've found so far is tomshardware's cpu charts, but they only test low resolutions & non-overclocked cpus. Overclocked quads are more powerful in 3dmark06, vantage, UT3, & supreme commander, but [easily] overclocked duals have the advantage in almost all other games.

Why is there even an argument about dual vs. quad in gaming anymore? Because the performance at identical clock speeds is the same, yet the quad costs twice as much, or more.

What are you talking about?

3.8 Ghz on a 65nm quad pretty much requires insane vcore/cooling/luck.

To get anywhere close to that you're doing extremely well.

The reason people are struggling to get high OCs with the 45nm quads is largely due to the crippled low multipliers, which makes pretty much all OCs FSB limited.

Also it seems the 45nm quads require a bit more finesse, so an average n00bie clocker is likely to get stumped well before getting too far.

As for duals clocking better than quads...that's not exactly a revelation.

I love the arguments in favor of dual cores...it's the same single core vs. dual core crap all over again...

Sure, for shortterm use, get a dual.

But if you want the best overall solution or want to keep your chip for a while, you don't buy what will considered low end in a couple years.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: n7
Also it seems the 45nm quads require a bit more finesse, so an average n00bie clocker is likely to get stumped well before getting too far.

DOE is that the secret? finesse??

i just kick my box a few times and yell at it. And it gets it to work.

LOL....

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
DFI X38 LT series, NOT DK

some good ram. if you dont know your ram, get ram raited for DDR2 1000.

A solid and good brand PSU.

And a bit of praying.

No DFI!

There are lots of people reporting they cannot get their 4870X2s going on pretty much every different newer DFI board out there.

Unless all those issues get magically fixed, apoppin has a good chance of getting one & having it not even work w/ his cards.

P5Q i can recommend yes.

I'm happy to give settings for those boards as i have one.

Here's the list of DFI epic fail: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com...eo-card-review-22.html
Here's a R3D thread...more DFI & 4870X2 issues.
Actually even google find even more issues: http://www.google.ca/search?q=dfi+4870x2

If you like gambling, get a DFI board.
Otherwise, stay the hell away.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: aigomorla
DFI X38 LT series, NOT DK

some good ram. if you dont know your ram, get ram raited for DDR2 1000.

A solid and good brand PSU.

And a bit of praying.

No DFI!

There are lots of people reporting they cannot get their 4870X2s going on pretty much every different newer DFI board out there.

Unless all those issues get magically fixed, apoppin has a good chance of getting one & having it not even work w/ his cards.

P5Q i can recommend yes.

I'm happy to give settings for those boards as i have one.

ACK.. i did not know that. But i said the X38, not X48.

So i shouldnt wait for the HD4870X2? becuase thats whats holding back my final rebuild.

 

[n7]

See edit, & another link coming.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: n7
8.5 x 450 = 3825 GHz.

So basically, with a solid mobo, good knowledge of OCing, a solid cooler, & some luck, i'd say you can get 3.8 GHz, yes.

But YMMV.

OK, i decided on the Asus P5e deluxe and a q9550; it is what fits my budget. Thanks to all of you for the suggestions!

wish me luck .. although i am a successful O/C'er since ... since ...
.. Celeron 300A

- luck on the O/C'ing
... My credit is still good at NewEgg

Maximus II Forumla cuz you need 2 x 16x pci-e or DFI X38 LT series, NOT DK

Huh .. you lost me there

is this MB OK for what i want?

ASUS P5E Deluxe LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $219.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131317

some good ram. if you dont know your ram, get ram raited for DDR2 1000.

A solid and good brand PSU.

And a bit of praying.


usually at this point its sometimes cheaper to go lower end parts higher end cpu to yeild greater oc. :T

Oh and this is if you get a E0. Get a C1 and.. well, YMMV.

my RAM is very OCable PC6400

my PSU is OCZ 850w - very stable until you get near its rated capacity

forget prayer
:Q


and this is the CPU i picked:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115041

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
$329 .. best O/C'er for the $$$ ?
Submit .. or start over ?

 

[aigomorla]

Pause.

you dont want to buy the CPU right now.

im hearing a lot of C1's are still getting mailed out.

EDIT: BAH... need to wait on bios updates. Thanks n7

Reason why i say the P45 chipset is because they run a bit cooler.

 

[n7]

And they are a better value.

P5Q-E will do PCI-e 2.0 8x + 8x for CF, which shouldn't have any bandwidth issues.

PCI-e 2.0 8x essentially = PCI-e 1.0 16x

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: n7
And they are a better value.

P5Q-E will do PCI-e 2.0 8x + 8x for CF, which shouldn't have any bandwidth issues.

PCI-e 2.0 8x essentially = PCI-e 1.0 16x

Yeah, but the Maximus is more built to run cooler overall. He's gonna have issues with heat as it is from the cpu if he's looking at numbers that high.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: n7
And they are a better value.

P5Q-E will do PCI-e 2.0 8x + 8x for CF, which shouldn't have any bandwidth issues.

PCI-e 2.0 8x essentially = PCI-e 1.0 16x

Yeah, but the Maximus is more built to run cooler overall. He's gonna have issues with heat as it is from the cpu if he's looking at numbers that high.

Edit: nvm, P45 i see.

Yeah it looks good, though is it worth the extra in price?!

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: minmaster
yeah, quad looks like what i'll be going for. i haven't replaced my system in 5 years. (well besides video card and memory upgrade) it's going to be a huge change for me.

If you keep your systems for that long, I'd consider waiting to pick up the cheapest 2.66ghz i7 for $284 in the fall. Even without overclocking, considering roughly 30% performance increase per clock cycle, you are looking at 3.4-3.5ghz C2Q equivalent. It'll also have Hyper-Threading giving you the ability to perform 8 threads at once. With this option, you get the best of all worlds imo.

 

[minmaster]

^ yes, i do hope to get the nehalem sometime late this year or early next year but how do you know the prices? i keep hearing that we might have to wait well into next year for the chips that'll be made for mainstream desktops.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: minmaster
yeah, quad looks like what i'll be going for. i haven't replaced my system in 5 years. (well besides video card and memory upgrade) it's going to be a huge change for me.

If you keep your systems for that long, I'd consider waiting to pick up the cheapest 2.66ghz i7 for $284 in the fall. Even without overclocking, considering roughly 30% performance increase per clock cycle, you are looking at 3.4-3.5ghz C2Q equivalent. It'll also have Hyper-Threading giving you the ability to perform 8 threads at once. With this option, you get the best of all worlds imo.

i will leave the debugging of i7 to you early adopters. Do you think the MBs will be perfect?

i am certain that a QC ~4.0 Ghz will be a solid high end option until neha is really desktop mainstream .. as late as early next Summer ? .. maybe Spring at the earliest. It is August. Mid-Summer [now] and even the most optimistic are saying December, aren't they? For what, exactly?

i need something very soon .. as soon as q9550's e0 is available, i am jumping on it together with Asus P5e x48 deluxe MB that can be so easily flashed to Rampage. It is less than $600 and will make my x3 4870s *fly*

i think my e4300 C2D even at 3.25Ghz is getting a little out of breath even with a single O/C'd 4870


here you go - "extreme" [priced] edition in q4:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=475

We expect the "i7" designation to first appear on the Bloomfield series of chips with the blue logo addressing the bottom level speed bins. The black logo addresses the top speed bin that will be marketed as an Extreme Edition processor, probably with an extreme price to go along with it.

The mobile and entry level derivatives of Nehalem should be launched in the second half of next year although the brand names for these products could differ from the "i7" theme

You like to wait?
:roll:

 

[minmaster]

heh i waited this long, what's another half-year?

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: minmaster
yeah, quad looks like what i'll be going for. i haven't replaced my system in 5 years. (well besides video card and memory upgrade) it's going to be a huge change for me.

If you keep your systems for that long, I'd consider waiting to pick up the cheapest 2.66ghz i7 for $284 in the fall. Even without overclocking, considering roughly 30% performance increase per clock cycle, you are looking at 3.4-3.5ghz C2Q equivalent. It'll also have Hyper-Threading giving you the ability to perform 8 threads at once. With this option, you get the best of all worlds imo.

i will leave the debugging of i7 to you early adopters. Do you think the MBs will be perfect?

i am certain that a QC ~4.0 Ghz will be a solid high end option until neha is really desktop mainstream .. as late as early next Summer ? .. maybe Spring at the earliest. It is August. Mid-Summer [now] and even the most optimistic are saying December, aren't they? For what, exactly?

i need something very soon .. as soon as q9550's e0 is available, i am jumping on it together with Asus P5e x48 deluxe MB that can be so easily flashed to Rampage. It is less than $600 and will make my x3 4870s *fly*

i think my e4300 C2D even at 3.25Ghz is getting a little out of breath even with a single O/C'd 4870


here you go - "extreme" [priced] edition in q4:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=475

We expect the "i7" designation to first appear on the Bloomfield series of chips with the blue logo addressing the bottom level speed bins. The black logo addresses the top speed bin that will be marketed as an Extreme Edition processor, probably with an extreme price to go along with it.

The mobile and entry level derivatives of Nehalem should be launched in the second half of next year although the brand names for these products could differ from the "i7" theme

You like to wait?
:roll:

I just want to caution you FROM EXPERIENCE to not get fixated on an OC number that you want to hit. I've been down that road......

If you have a certain speed goal in mind, be prepared to pay out the nose to attain that goal or buy a chip that is rated as close to that speed (stock) that you want. Just search through Mobo and CPU/OC for my threads and you'll see that I've been through HUNDREDS of $ lately upgrading this and that in search for that ever elusive goal. First trying to get my Q6600 to 3.6GHz which resulted in epic failure @ 3.4GHz to trying to get pretty much ANY quad over 3.6GHz. Even the ES I got loaned was quite the battle to get stable over 3.6 and it's an ES!!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: n7

No DFI!

There are lots of people reporting they cannot get their 4870X2s going on pretty much every different newer DFI board out there.

Unless all those issues get magically fixed, apoppin has a good chance of getting one & having it not even work w/ his cards.

Uh oh. I wish someone had mentioned this before I dropped half a grand on a pair of DFI X48 board to CF some 4850s on.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: n7

No DFI!

There are lots of people reporting they cannot get their 4870X2s going on pretty much every different newer DFI board out there.

Unless all those issues get magically fixed, apoppin has a good chance of getting one & having it not even work w/ his cards.

Uh oh. I wish someone had mentioned this before I dropped half a grand on a pair of DFI X48 board to CF some 4850s on.

larry theres a beta bios out that resolves it tho. Well i hear its 50/50.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: minmaster
yeah, quad looks like what i'll be going for. i haven't replaced my system in 5 years. (well besides video card and memory upgrade) it's going to be a huge change for me.

If you keep your systems for that long, I'd consider waiting to pick up the cheapest 2.66ghz i7 for $284 in the fall. Even without overclocking, considering roughly 30% performance increase per clock cycle, you are looking at 3.4-3.5ghz C2Q equivalent. It'll also have Hyper-Threading giving you the ability to perform 8 threads at once. With this option, you get the best of all worlds imo.

i will leave the debugging of i7 to you early adopters. Do you think the MBs will be perfect?

i am certain that a QC ~4.0 Ghz will be a solid high end option until neha is really desktop mainstream .. as late as early next Summer ? .. maybe Spring at the earliest. It is August. Mid-Summer [now] and even the most optimistic are saying December, aren't they? For what, exactly?

i need something very soon .. as soon as q9550's e0 is available, i am jumping on it together with Asus P5e x48 deluxe MB that can be so easily flashed to Rampage. It is less than $600 and will make my x3 4870s *fly*

i think my e4300 C2D even at 3.25Ghz is getting a little out of breath even with a single O/C'd 4870


here you go - "extreme" [priced] edition in q4:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=475

We expect the "i7" designation to first appear on the Bloomfield series of chips with the blue logo addressing the bottom level speed bins. The black logo addresses the top speed bin that will be marketed as an Extreme Edition processor, probably with an extreme price to go along with it.

The mobile and entry level derivatives of Nehalem should be launched in the second half of next year although the brand names for these products could differ from the "i7" theme

You like to wait?
:roll:

I just want to caution you FROM EXPERIENCE to not get fixated on an OC number that you want to hit. I've been down that road......

If you have a certain speed goal in mind, be prepared to pay out the nose to attain that goal or buy a chip that is rated as close to that speed (stock) that you want. Just search through Mobo and CPU/OC for my threads and you'll see that I've been through HUNDREDS of $ lately upgrading this and that in search for that ever elusive goal. First trying to get my Q6600 to 3.6GHz which resulted in epic failure @ 3.4GHz to trying to get pretty much ANY quad over 3.6GHz. Even the ES I got loaned was quite the battle to get stable over 3.6 and it's an ES!!

i bet i get lucky on the first try; i will settle for 3.8 Ghz



betcha

heh i waited this long, what's another half-year?

six months .. 26 weeks .. 183 days .. 4380 hours ..

i can wait another 2 weeks

 

[RussianSensation]

Apoppin, my message for waiting for i7 related to OP only since he upgrades so rarely. For you, I wouldn't suggest waiting. Plus we all know at least once a quarter you have to buy a new computer toy. :laugh:

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: minmaster
heh i waited this long, what's another half-year?

From everything we keep hearing from the "experts", it's going to be ~12 months before the less than $300 Nehalems hit the streets.

 

[ch33kym0use]

future can do with more core optimization and increased cpu performance for each core

 

[minmaster]

damn i guess i have to wait a bit longer then; its ok since i don't need a new PC for anything right now. the only game i'm waiting for is BF3 which isn't even announced yet.

or i might just cave in and build a cheap E5200 based dual core and overclock it like hell. i'll see (when the E5200 hits the stores).

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: minmaster
heh i waited this long, what's another half-year?

From everything we keep hearing from the "experts", it's going to be ~12 months before the less than $300 Nehalems hit the streets.

Hmmm...But random sources around the Internet indicate Q4 2008 at About $316 I also read somewhere a price of $284. Don't recall the source.