(DSOG via MaxPC) Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle

[Keysplayr]

I agree completely. Huddy said something totally incorrect and he is, indeed, solely responsible. As a chief scientist (or whatever his official title is), he should have known better. Petersen was absolutely right to call him out for that and correct him.

(Isn't it funny how some people take more issue with the tone of what is said than with the substance of what was said?)

If one cannot refute the substance, then one must pursue whatever avenues are left in a "debate". In this case, the tone. Calling Petersen condescending has nothing to do with the content of what is being discussed, which is exactly what "should" be focused on.

 

[I/O]

If one cannot refute the substance, then one must pursue whatever avenues are left in a "debate". In this case, the tone. Calling Petersen condescending has nothing to do with the content of what is being discussed, which is exactly what "should" be focused on.

Petersen an that Rev character were actually quite full of it and very vague at best. Basically here's the interview in a nut shell "nvidias the best because we have features and innovate" the whole time the undertone was that AMD does not innovate, does not have features and .... "is just a hardware company". The funny thing is that nvidia is also a hardware company just like AMD and everything it does on the software and PR side is to in turn none other than to sell more hardware because that's what nvidia is a hardware vendor. When put on the spot nvidia Tom would quickly change the subject. Peterson and Rev were very condescending which just goes to show how much of a threat AMD has become to nvidia. What I took from that interview was that nvidia is shaking in their boots because they know that AMD has all their chips in place to "take over the market".

 

[Mand]

Yeah, shaking in their boots so much that they have to cry themselves to sleep thinking about merely outselling AMD two-to-one.

 

[I/O]

Yeah, shaking in their boots so much that they have to cry themselves to sleep thinking about merely outselling AMD two-to-one.

Well making more money today does not mean that things will stay the same down the road. I think AMDs graphics sales are making great progress and in the future with great and innovative technologies like Mantle and the great performance and value AMD is getting setup for success. With over 57 game developers on board with Mantle and Intel taking interest in Mantle things are shaping up. Plus with AMD hardware in the consoles I think more people use AMD graphics than nvidia. In the end I don't care how much sales nvidia or AMD pushes just as long as they are actually moving the gaming industry in a positive direction.

 

[Mand]

Well making more money today does not mean that things will stay the same down the road. I think AMDs graphics sales are making great progress and in the future with great and innovative technologies like Mantle and the great performance and value AMD is getting setup for success. With over 57 game developers on board with Mantle and Intel taking interest in Mantle things are shaping up. Plus with AMD hardware in the consoles I think more people use AMD graphics than nvidia. In the end I don't care how much sales nvidia or AMD pushes just as long as they are actually moving the gaming industry in a positive direction.

Data:

There's a slight uptick in the last couple quarters yes, but it looks a lot like the 'sawtooth' pattern from earlier. The long-term trend is certainly clear, there has been pretty considerable stability since 2010, with if anything a slight upward trend for Nvidia. Note that this was published in the fall of 2013, so it doesn't have the last year's worth of data points, but the data certainly fits the 35-40 / 60-65 trend.

 

[Keysplayr]

Petersen an that Rev character were actually quite full of it and very vague at best.

Full of it how exactly? Saying this implies that they were lying. Please specify where they were lying. What were they being vague about? Was it something they couldn't actually comment on because IP would be compromised or they could not comment on unreleased product (software or other)?

Basically here's the interview in a nut shell "nvidias the best because we have features and innovate" the whole time the undertone was that AMD does not innovate, does not have features and .... "is just a hardware company". The funny thing is that nvidia is also a hardware company just like AMD and everything it does on the software and PR side is to in turn none other than to sell more hardware because that's what nvidia is a hardware vendor. When put on the spot nvidia Tom would quickly change the subject. Peterson and Rev were very condescending which just goes to show how much of a threat AMD has become to nvidia. What I took from that interview was that nvidia is shaking in their boots because they know that AMD has all their chips in place to "take over the market".

The rest of your post isn't even worth addressing to be honest. It reads like you are just mocking them. Correct me.

 

[3DVagabond]

I agree completely. Huddy said something totally incorrect and he is, indeed, solely responsible. As a chief scientist (or whatever his official title is), he should have known better. Petersen was absolutely right to call him out for that and correct him.

(Isn't it funny how some people take more issue with the tone of what is said than with the substance of what was said?)

You tried to justify Peterson being condescending because of what Huddy said. I simply stated that both men (and everyone else in the world) are solely responsible for what comes out of their mouths (pens/keyboards). It was meant as more of a social statement against current thinking by a lot of people. Obviously parents no longer tell their kids that they don't care what Jimmy or Suzy did that they will not be excused for their actions. That was my whole point.

 

[Keysplayr]

You tried to justify Peterson being condescending because of what Huddy said. I simply stated that both men (and everyone else in the world) are solely responsible for what comes out of their mouths (pens/keyboards). It was meant as more of a social statement against current thinking by a lot of people. Obviously parents no longer tell their kids that they don't care what Jimmy or Suzy did that they will not be excused for their actions. That was my whole point.

Someone looking and listening to somebody they do not like, or opposing someone they do like, is almost certainly bound to think they are smug, arrogant, condescending, full of it. It's natural. I didn't find the Nvidia guys smug at all. I DID see them sort of laughing at some of the Huddy statements. I think they're minds were blown a little because they are sitting there having to defend themselves from a guy who just decided to make stuff up as he goes along. That would piss me off too. I think they handled themselves pretty well and even tried to steer the conversation away from the interviewer's AMD/huddy questions and focus on Nvidia stuff. High road. Respect that at least.

So anyway enough about how smug you think they were. Has NO relevence even if they WERE smug. They're probably allowed to be due to the questions about Huddy's remarks being fired at them.

 

[MathMan]

You tried to justify Peterson being condescending because of what Huddy said. I simply stated that both men (and everyone else in the world) are solely responsible for what comes out of their mouths (pens/keyboards). It was meant as more of a social statement against current thinking by a lot of people. Obviously parents no longer tell their kids that they don't care what Jimmy or Suzy did that they will not be excused for their actions. That was my whole point.

To be honest, I didn't think they were all that condescending. Maybe a little, but at least they weren't stupid. I value the latter much more than the former.
I thought the explanation of the look-aside buffer was nicely explained. A bit low level maybe, but given non-technical audience of Huddy and the listeners, that was a necessity.

 

[I/O]

Someone looking and listening to somebody they do not like, or opposing someone they do like, is almost certainly bound to think they are smug, arrogant, condescending, full of it. It's natural. I didn't find the Nvidia guys smug at all. I DID see them sort of laughing at some of the Huddy statements. I think they're minds were blown a little because they are sitting there having to defend themselves from a guy who just decided to make stuff up as he goes along. That would piss me off too. I think they handled themselves pretty well and even tried to steer the conversation away from the interviewer's AMD/huddy questions and focus on Nvidia stuff. High road. Respect that at least.

So anyway enough about how smug you think they were. Has NO relevence even if they WERE smug. They're probably allowed to be due to the questions about Huddy's remarks being fired at them.

Says who nvidia LOL. Holds no water cause of course nvidia is going to attempt to sugar coat their shortcomings and just try to pass it off as .... "no big deal". The nvidia guy's did come off smug and extremely arrogant IM humble opinion.

 

[MathMan]

Says who nvidia LOL. Holds no water cause of course nvidia is going to attempt to sugar coat their shortcomings and just try to pass it off as .... "no big deal". The nvidia guy's did come off smug and extremely arrogant IM humble opinion.

A lot of stuff was discussed in that interview. But it is indisputable that Huddy made stuff up when talking about the at-least 1 frame latency in GSYNC. So no LOL WUT stuff there. The guy was just plain wrong. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that what he said shouldn't be attributed to malice.

 

[Keysplayr]

Says who nvidia LOL. Holds no water cause of course nvidia is going to attempt to sugar coat their shortcomings and just try to pass it off as .... "no big deal". The nvidia guy's did come off smug and extremely arrogant IM humble opinion.

Yes. Says Nvidia AND anyone who understood their explanation of how G-Sync works. Apparently Huddy missed class the day he came up with the added frame of latency theory. Give this up man. Huddy has no legs to support himself right now.

 

[I/O]

A lot of stuff was discussed in that interview. But it is indisputable that Huddy made stuff up when talking about the at-least 1 frame latency in GSYNC. So no LOL WUT stuff there. The guy was just plain wrong. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that what he said shouldn't be attributed to malice.

I don't trust nvidia to be honest and forth coming about thier shortcomings. I hope they get that 1 frame latency thing fixed soon and I am sure they will. Also I would not just take nvidias word as the unequivocal truth nor AMDs so please reserch before calling people flat out lying crap talkers.

 

[Keysplayr]

I don't trust nvidia to be honest and forth coming about thier shortcomings. I hope they get that 1 frame latency thing fixed soon and I am sure they will. Also I would not just take nvidias word as the unequivocal truth nor AMDs so please reserch before calling people flat out lying crap talkers.

And you trust Huddy's word because...........?

 

[MathMan]

I don't trust nvidia to be honest and forth coming about thier shortcomings. I hope they get that 1 frame latency thing fixed soon and I am sure they will. Also I would not just take nvidias word as the unequivocal truth nor AMDs so please reserch before calling people flat out lying crap talkers.

The 1 frame latency was never there. This was conclusively proven more than half a year ago by blurbusters.com, where they measure it on the Asus VG248QE upgrade kit.
If it wasn't there back half a year ago, there's no need for you to hope anything: it was never a problem to begin with. I'm confident that this news will warm your heart.

I haven't called Huddy a malicious liar. I only said he was stupid.

Look at it this way: GSYNC is supposed to fix stutter, tearing, and lag, according to the Nvidia marketing machine. And tests show that it does.

Do you really believe Nvidia would trumpet low lag if it actually introduced a full freaking frame of lag? Something that would be noticed immediately by any serious FPS player? Do you really?

 

[Keysplayr]

The 1 frame latency was never there. This was conclusively proven more than half a year ago by blurbusters.com, where they measure it on the Asus VG248QE upgrade kit.
If it wasn't there back half a year ago, there's no need for you to hope anything: it was never a problem to begin with. I'm confident that this news will warm your heart.

I haven't called Huddy a malicious liar. I only said he was stupid.

Look at it this way: GSYNC is supposed to fix stutter, tearing, and lag, according to the Nvidia marketing machine. And tests show that it does.

Do you really believe Nvidia would trumpet low lag if it actually introduced a full freaking frame of lag? Something that would be noticed immediately by any serious FPS player? Do you really?

Apparently he might. Wonders never cease.

 

[monstercameron]

I might also be naïve but why would huddy bring up such a point without any proof? Is it just a pure fud attack?

Also why should tom receive more trust than huddy when they both have incentive to embellish some of the facts, tom more so being a marketing head and on the defensive.

 

[I/O]

I haven't called Huddy a malicious liar. I only said he was stupid.

Calling Huddy an outright liar is a low blow and calling him stupid is outright a fallacious claim.. You could say that Tom Petersen is a googly eyed shill though and that would stand to reason and while still being a low blow at leased it's honest.

 

[Mand]

Calling Huddy an outright liar is a low blow

Yet, a true blow.

 

[Keysplayr]

I might also be naïve but why would huddy bring up such a point without any proof? Is it just a pure fud attack?

Also why should tom receive more trust than huddy when they both have incentive to embellish some of the facts, tom more so being a marketing head and on the defensive.

There is a very good chance that Huddy did not fully understand how G-Sync worked. He may have had a very good idea, but he can't know more than Nvidia knows about it. Petersen knows. Huddy doesn't. I'm not saying Huddy is stupid. I'm not saying he is a liar in this instance. What I will say is that he didn't really know and was foolish enough to go on record showing an entire planets worth of tech community that he didn't really know. That's about it.

I/O, I'm seeing a pattern here.

 

[MathMan]

Calling Huddy an outright liar is a low blow and calling him stupid is outright a fallacious claim.. You could say that Tom Petersen is a googly eyed shill though and that would stand to reason and while still being a low blow at leased it's honest.

I go by actual third party tests and in the field users experiences: GSYNC doesn't add a frame of latency. You may call Mr. Petersen a shill and you'd be 100% right: because, surprise, that is his job. Tell me something new.

You didn't reply my question: do you really believe that all the upgrade kit and Swift buyers and reviewers failed to notice a full frame of delay?

If not, would you agree that this delay simply isn't there? And that Huddy didn't know what he was talking about? And that Petersen, shill or not, told the truth?

Don't weasel out of this, I/O.

 

[MathMan]

I might also be naïve but why would huddy bring up such a point without any proof? Is it just a pure fud attack?

I think the poor guy truly didn't know. He just transferred back from shilling for Intel to shilling for AMD. Probably didn't have the time to study the AMD talking points and decided to pull facts out of a dark place and hoped his beautiful English accent would make people not notice.

Also why should tom receive more trust than huddy when they both have incentive to embellish some of the facts, tom more so being a marketing head and on the defensive.

That's the nice part about products that are available for sale: you don't have to trust him. Independent parties can do the tests themselves. The real life tests confirm Nvidia's claims:
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

 

[monstercameron]

I think the poor guy truly didn't know. He just transferred back from shilling for Intel to shilling for AMD. Probably didn't have the time to study the AMD talking points and decided to pull facts out of a dark place and hoped his beautiful English accent would make people not notice.


That's the nice part about products that are available for sale: you don't have to trust him. Independent parties can do the tests themselves. The real life tests confirm Nvidia's claims:
http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview2/

This game of who to trust can go on ad infinitum, why would/should I trust blurbusters vs AMD? amd has engineers that may have informed huddy's talking points.

I am just having trouble understanding where this claim came from, why would huddy say this if it could easily be debunked? has he never been on a forum before?

 

[I/O]

I go by actual third party tests and in the field users experiences: GSYNC doesn't add a frame of latency. You may call Mr. Petersen a shill and you'd be 100% right: because, surprise, that is his job. Tell me something new.

You didn't reply my question: do you really believe that all the upgrade kit and Swift buyers and reviewers failed to notice a full frame of delay?

If not, would you agree that this delay simply isn't there? And that Huddy didn't know what he was talking about? And that Petersen, shill or not, told the truth?

Don't weasel out of this, I/O.

I don't trust marketing shills that sling fabrications of truth and sometimes full on lies to sway public opinion in favor of ... "Snake Oil". That's what it comes down to for me personally.

 

[MathMan]

This game of who to trust can go on ad infinitum, why would/should I trust blurbusters vs AMD? amd has engineers that may have informed huddy's talking points.

One person can make a mistake. That could be AMD or Blurbusters. But the former is just something he says and the latter is a very detailed methodology with all the numbers included. And it's not only blurbusters. When everybody reports no increase in latency, something that's very noticeable in fast gaming, then at some point you have to believe the majority.

I am just having trouble understanding where this claim came from, why would huddy say this if it could easily be debunked? has he never been on a forum before?

Yes. I don't understand that either. Someone in his position should know better. That's why I'm calling him stupid.