(DSOG via MaxPC) Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle

[3DVagabond]

Dark Side of Gaming has an article up citing MaxPC as the source.

Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle – Will Not Support It, No Real Benefit Using It.

Basically they say they don't see any substantial benefit and are just going to work with DX waiting for DX12 to offer Mantle's benefits.

“DX12 is coming and a lot of the features, the benefits of having a lower level API (the extra calls and stuff), it’s going to be in DX12.”

 

[KingFatty]

The article says the Nvidia engineer(s) said: "Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there."

But, tries to spin that as Nvidia contradicting itself when it seemingly touts the benefits of DX12, which would be, ah, similar if not the same as Mantle benefits.

I don't think that's a contradiction, because clearly there is no benefit to Nvidia when it comes to Mantle, so it's a perfectly true statement the Nvidia guy said. Mantle doesn't benefit *NVidia*, but there are benefits to the things in DX12 that are like Mantle. so it depends on what the definition of benefits is.

 

[monstercameron]

The article says the Nvidia engineer(s) said: "Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there."

But, tries to spin that as Nvidia contradicting itself when it seemingly touts the benefits of DX12, which would be, ah, similar if not the same as Mantle benefits.

I don't think that's a contradiction, because clearly there is no benefit to Nvidia when it comes to Mantle, so it's a perfectly true statement the Nvidia guy said. Mantle doesn't benefit *NVidia*, but there are benefits to the things in DX12 that are like Mantle. so it depends on what the definition of benefits is.

why wouldn't mantle benefit nvidia?

 

[AnandThenMan]

We don’t know much about Mantle

The key thing is to develop great technologies that deliver benefits to gamers. Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there.

He's right, doesn't know much about Mantle at all.

 

[SPBHM]

apart from obviously being controlled and optimized by AMD I think Mantle would not be beneficial because DX12 is coming soon (and the resources are better spent with that), I think it's more or less what he is trying to say!?

 

[3DVagabond]

The article says the Nvidia engineer(s) said: "Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there."

But, tries to spin that as Nvidia contradicting itself when it seemingly touts the benefits of DX12, which would be, ah, similar if not the same as Mantle benefits.

I don't think that's a contradiction, because clearly there is no benefit to Nvidia when it comes to Mantle, so it's a perfectly true statement the Nvidia guy said. Mantle doesn't benefit *NVidia*, but there are benefits to the things in DX12 that are like Mantle. so it depends on what the definition of benefits is.

He says this specifically:

“We don’t know much about Mantle, we are not part of Mantle. And clearly if they see value there they should go for it. And if they can convince game developers to go for it, go for it. It’s not an Nvidia thing. The key thing is to develop great technologies that deliver benefits to gamers. Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there.”

Then he says...

“DX12 is coming and a lot of the features, the benefits of having a lower level API (the extra calls and stuff), it’s going to be in DX12.”

So he thinks that it will be a benefit in DX12 but claims not in Mantle.

 

[3DVagabond]

apart from obviously being controlled and optimized by AMD I think Mantle would not be beneficial because DX12 is coming soon (and the resources are better spent with that), I think it's more or less what he is trying to say!?

He specifically says "benefits for "gamers", not nVidia.

 

[Pinstripe]

There's no point for Nvidia to adopt an API that only their competitor can control.

 

[sandorski]

Not surprised. They'll get the benefit when DX12 comes out. Supporting Mantle just makes it look like AMD has done something they didn't.

 

[3DVagabond]

There's no point for Nvidia to adopt an API that only their competitor can control.

No doubt about that.

Not surprised. They'll get the benefit when DX12 comes out. Supporting Mantle just makes it look like AMD has done something they didn't.

They should just say they aren't going to support their competitor's API. I think people would understand.

 

[monstercameron]

No doubt about that.



They should just say they aren't going to support their competitor's API. I think people would understand.

if they said it so plainly, then they wouldn't be able to down play it.

 

[piesquared]

if they said it so plainly, then they wouldn't be able to down play it.

Also, they wouldn't be able to adopt it in the future when they are forced to. When the public beta becomes available and intel jumps on board. Which they will because the alternative is to be left in the dust. intel's GPU's are a pain in the as_ as far as developers are concerned because it's the slowest hardware on the market with the highest market share, but if they don't get on board with next gen APIs, nobodies' going to wait for them this time. Gaming is one of the few remaining strongholds of x86 and close to the metal APIs will go ahead with or without intel, and one would assume they know that. They'll be looking at Mantle code alright, they'll get in as soon as it's available.).
Mantle games will have been on the market for 2 years before DX12 games start trickling out, and Mantle has a faster adoption rate than DX11. Some like to pretend that Mantle has little support. The fact is that it has wide support, and many developers are using it, so nv can't leave next gen development to their competition for 2 years.
As far as gameworks goes, meh couldn't really be arsed about it. It's sort of inconsequential I don't really care if the game has it or not. As long as it doesn't affect or penalize my performance because of proprietary coding. Mantle is far more exiting to me than a couple special affects, some of which AMD already has their own implementation of, is already in games and is open to all.

 

[sandorski]

No doubt about that.



They should just say they aren't going to support their competitor's API. I think people would understand.

Nvidia has used years of Marketing to convince many that they are the Technical/Innovation leader. Adopting Mantle would put that in jeopardy.

 

[purefun1965]

Intel asked AMD for access to mantle and was told it was not available at this time. Why not give them access? One could guess it would make AMD look even worse with their cpus. DX12 is the future because Intel supports it.

 

[Borealis7]

another "Con" to DX12 is that it would force you to get Win9, right? we can't know what the adoption rate will be for the new OS, and seeing how it goes with Win8 i'm not sure DX12 will catch on very fast.
Mantle does not require a new OS, and besides, does this low level API affect games written for older DX implementations? will DX9/10/11 games benefit from it?
it's the same story all over again - the technology may be available, but no games using it yet.

 

[piesquared]

Intel asked AMD for access to mantle and was told it was not available at this time. Why not give them access? One could guess it would make AMD look even worse with their cpus. DX12 is the future because Intel supports it.

Why give them access before it's ready? What input can intel possibly give regarding game development? Nothing they're just tagging along with their anemic graphics as usual. They need they're hands on it yes, but until it's ready they'd just be in the way and an unneeded distraction.

 

[3DVagabond]

Intel asked AMD for access to mantle and was told it was not available at this time. Why not give them access? One could guess it would make AMD look even worse with their cpus. DX12 is the future because Intel supports it.

1) It's not ready. AMD doesn't need anymore "Cooks in the Kitchen".
2) Can you imagine the consequences if AMD gave Intel some type of early exclusive access?

 

[monstercameron]

Why give them access before it's ready? What input can intel possibly give regarding game development? Nothing they're just tagging along with their anemic graphics as usual. They need they're hands on it yes, but until it's ready they'd just be in the way and an unneeded distraction.

come on that isnt a good excuse, having intel early on would have been a great marketing push. Intel has the gpu market cornered at the lowend, where mantle would shine brightest.

 

[3DVagabond]

come on that isnt a good excuse, having intel early on would have been a great marketing push. Intel has the gpu market cornered at the lowend, where mantle would shine brightest.

Low end GPU's isn't Mantles strong point. At least in it's current dev stage. So, far it's been all CPU improvements. There might be GPU yet to come, though. Who knows?

 

[Silverforce11]

Why would you expect NV to champion the benefits of Mantle, its a closed API from their competitor?

Come on, do you expect altruism in cut throat business warfare?!

Yes Mantle is pointless to NV, they are going to reap the benefits in DX12 anyway, why bother help sell Mantle...

 

[piesquared]

come on that isnt a good excuse, having intel early on would have been a great marketing push. Intel has the gpu market cornered at the lowend, where mantle would shine brightest.

They don't need a marketing push from intel. They're already benefiting from Mantle at the low end, and they'd be no help in developing the API.

 

[piesquared]

Why would you expect NV to champion the benefits of Mantle, its a closed API from their competitor?

Come on, do you expect altruism in cut throat business warfare?!

Yes Mantle is pointless to NV, they are going to reap the benefits in DX12 anyway, why bother help sell Mantle...

By the time nv reaps the benefit of DX12, AMD will have a 2 year experience lead and DX12 is very similar to Mantle. Some will use Mantle as a stepping stone and the majority of Mantle developers will continue developing for Mantle.

 

[Atreidin]

Nowhere in the Nvidia rep's self-contradictory statements did he state that they couldn't use Mantle if they wanted. If it wasn't possible because it was made for AMD only, they would have definitely stated that, and pressed the issue as a big negative. But they didn't. Does that mean the Nvidia fanboys will finally stop arguing that Mantle will only run on AMD hardware now?

Also DX12 might be better than DX11 but I don't see why everyone is so confident that it will be just as good as Mantle.

 

[purefun1965]

They don't need a marketing push from intel. They're already benefiting from Mantle at the low end, and they'd be no help in developing the API.

That is not by definition a open source as AMD claims mantle is. Intel has far more resources than AMD. Intel onboard would guarantee it becomes a standard in the industry.

 

[monstercameron]

That is not by definition a open source as AMD claims mantle is. Intel has far more resources than AMD. Intel onboard would guarantee it becomes a standard in the industry.

driver development is another topic, there are only so many capable programmers who can develop driver for complex gpus. Besides opensource has many definitions and permutations.