(DSOG via MaxPC) Nvidia Finally Officially Speaks About AMD’s Mantle

[ShintaiDK]

why wouldn't mantle benefit nvidia?

He says this specifically:


Then he says...


So he thinks that it will be a benefit in DX12 but claims not in Mantle.

The article is a spin. And both of you seemed to have completely missed it.

Mantle only runs on AMD hardware. Hence it wont benefit nVidia or anyone else and stay with a niche set of users.

DX is the unified standard on the Windows platform.

 

[3DVagabond]

Nowhere in the Nvidia rep's self-contradictory statements did he state that they couldn't use Mantle if they wanted. If it wasn't possible because it was made for AMD only, they would have definitely stated that, and pressed the issue as a big negative. But they didn't. Does that mean the Nvidia fanboys will finally stop arguing that Mantle will only run on AMD hardware now?

Also DX12 might be better than DX11 but I don't see why everyone is so confident that it will be just as good as Mantle.

Kidding me? We have people here who try and claim it doesn't offer any benefits over DX11, even though the entire industry says it does. Well, everyone except nVidia anyway... Oh wait?

The article is a spin. And both of you seemed to have completely missed it.

Mantle only runs on AMD hardware. Hence it wont benefit nVidia or anyone else and stay with a niche set of users.

DX is the unified standard on the Windows platform.

Spin? All I did was quote the nVidia rep. So, who's really spinning then? Are you feeling dizzy?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Spin? All I did was quote the nVidia rep. So, who's really spinning then? Are you feeling dizzy?

Mantle capable devices is a minority. Thats not how you benefit gamers. Not to mention Mantle is _still_ a closed API.

And yes, the article is a spin. If you actually read how they try to make it look like nVidia contradicted themselves, yet they didnt. Not to mention what you post yourself.

Kidding me? We have people here who try and claim it doesn't offer any benefits over DX11, even though the entire industry says it does. Well, everyone except nVidia anyway... Oh wait?

It cant offer any benefits for others over DX11 when it cant run on anything but AMD and being a closed API AMD doesnt want to share. Not that hard to understand.

With that said, these nVidia guys likes to lie as much as the AMD guys.

 

[AtenRa]

Mantle capable devices is a minority. Thats not how you benefit gamers.

And having the Majority of Market Share (Intel) with the worst iGPU performance and horrible Drivers benefit Gamers more ???

 

[ShintaiDK]

And having the Majority of Market Share (Intel) with the worst iGPU performance and horrible Drivers benefit Gamers more ???

Over 83% of the sold graphics capable hardware cant run Mantle. But they can run DX12.

Then you can hate and dislike any other company as much as you like. But it still doesnt change that fact. Not to mention how AMD tapdances around the "Open API" BS they claimed.

 

[3DVagabond]

Mantle capable devices is a minority. Thats not how you benefit gamers. Not to mention Mantle is _still_ a closed API.

And yes, the article is a spin. If you actually read how they try to make it look like nVidia contradicted themselves, yet they didnt. Not to mention what you post yourself.



It cant offer any benefits for others over DX11 when it cant run on anything but AMD and being a closed API AMD doesnt want to share. Not that hard to understand.

With that said, these nVidia guys likes to lie as much as the AMD guys.

This is a new thread. Do you have anything to add that's not just you repeating what you've been posting all along? How about you comment on what the nVidia reps had to say.

 

[ShintaiDK]

This is a new thread. Do you have anything to add that's not just you repeating what you've been posting all along? How about you comment on what the nVidia reps had to say.

I did comment on what he said.

 

[monstercameron]

Over 83% of the sold graphics capable hardware cant run Mantle. But they can run DX12.

Then you can hate and dislike any other company as much as you like. But it still doesnt change that fact. Not to mention how AMD tapdances around the "Open API" BS they claimed.

what is your source on that?

 

[ShintaiDK]

what is your source on that?

2014 Q1 graphics marketshare.

 

[3DVagabond]

I did comment on what he said.

I missed it and still can't see it rereading your post.

 

[monstercameron]

2014 Q1 graphics marketshare.

Over 83% of the sold graphics capable hardware cant run Mantle. But they can run DX12.

added emphasis, not market share but capability.

 

[ShintaiDK]

added emphasis, not market share but capability.

Its only getting worse if you want to add capability for already previous sold devices. Kaveri/Kabini for example was the first Mantle capable APUs. Not to mention anything below the HD7xxx series. And thats when you remove the HD73xx, HD74xx. HD75xx and HD76xx rebrands that isnt GCN based. Not to mention R5 230 and so on.

 

[monstercameron]

Its only getting worse if you want to add capability for already previous sold devices.

I dont understand how you got to those numbers. Unless you all the evidence you have in anecdotal. Give one technical reason why this 80% you claim cant have mantle drivers [but they can have OGL, GLES, D3d upto 11 and d3d 12 drivers]?

 

[Silverforce11]

I did not realize the crap intel iGPUs are DX12 ready and can run DX12 code. News to me! If true, Intel are finally on the right track!

 

[ShintaiDK]

I dont understand how you got to those numbers. Unless you all the evidence you have in anecdotal. Give one technical reason why this 80% you claim cant have mantle drivers [but they can have OGL, GLES, D3d upto 11 and d3d 12 drivers]?

Only GCN supports Mantle.

However Gen7.5, Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell and GCN supports DX12.

 

[AtenRa]

Over 83% of the sold graphics capable hardware cant run Mantle. But they can run DX12.

Current Intel HD graphics can run DX-12 ??? really ?? they just dont even have the performance for DX-11 games

Just so you learn, full DX-12 feature list will require new Hardware. So none of current GPUs can run DX-12 with full support.

Edit: Ohh and its one thing to support DX-12 and another thing to play games in DX-12. Intel HD graphics may support DX-11 today , but they dont have the performance to Play DX-11 games

So i dont see how Intel Majority of Graphics Market Share benefits Gamers when almost every Mantle capable device can benefit Gamers.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Current Intel HD graphics can run DX-12 ??? really ?? they just dont even have the performance for DX-11 games

Just so you learn, full DX-12 feature list will require new Hardware. So none of current GPUs can run DX-12 with full support.

The benefit of the API reduction doesnt require new hardware.

 

[monstercameron]

Only GCN supports Mantle.

However Gen7.5, Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell and GCN supports DX12.

and what is your source on this? I assume that d3d12 isnt finished yet so how are you certain that it will support current gen gpus?

 

[Silverforce11]

By the time nv reaps the benefit of DX12, AMD will have a 2 year experience lead and DX12 is very similar to Mantle. Some will use Mantle as a stepping stone and the majority of Mantle developers will continue developing for Mantle.

I honestly doubt developers would still push with Mantle once DX12 has some decent marketshare (depends what MS is doing with it). The main benefit is lower driver overhead so weaker CPUs can still push powerful GPUs, if DX12 can do that, what advantages will Mantle keep**? Is that enough for developers to waste man-hours/$ to support a closed API? I don't think so.

**Sure, maybe AMD may finally optimize GPU rendering with Mantle, but there's no indication they are doing that.

 

[ShintaiDK]

and what is your source on this? I assume that d3d12 isnt finished yet so how are you certain that it will support current gen gpus?

How could you have missed it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7889/...level-graphics-programming-comes-to-directx/2

 

[monstercameron]

How could you have missed it?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7889/...level-graphics-programming-comes-to-directx/2

so if they can have d3d12 drivers why not mantle?

 

[ShintaiDK]

so if they can have d3d12 drivers why not mantle?

Because Mantle is AMD specific and a closed API.

 

[AtenRa]

The benefit of the API reduction doesnt require new hardware.

again ,

Ohh and its one thing to support DX-12 and another thing to play games in DX-12. Intel HD graphics may support DX-11 today , but they dont have the performance to Play DX-11 games

So i dont see how Intel Majority of Graphics Market Share benefits Gamers when almost every Mantle capable device can benefit Gamers.

 

[Spjut]

Only GCN supports Mantle.

However Gen7.5, Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell and GCN supports DX12.

Until Nvidia has been given the spec sheet and confirms that Fermi, Kepler and Maxwell can or cannot technically support Mantle, none of us can say that Mantle truly is GCN-only.

Do note that DX12, just like Mantle, won't be supported on AMD's pre-GCN GPUs.

I honestly doubt developers would still push with Mantle once DX12 has some decent marketshare (depends what MS is doing with it). The main benefit is lower driver overhead so weaker CPUs can still push powerful GPUs, if DX12 can do that, what advantages will Mantle keep**? Is that enough for developers to waste man-hours/$ to support a closed API? I don't think so.

**Sure, maybe AMD may finally optimize GPU rendering with Mantle, but there's no indication they are doing that.

The engines already supporting Mantle have no reason to throw it away.
And since DX12 likely will require Windows 9, its adoption will be very limited in the beginning.

 

[desprado]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG2kIUerD4c#t=5864
Wow in this video Nvidia Reps also said that they have 1000s PC and 1000s people just to optimize game which is released and yet to release where AMD does not do it.(01:22:00)

They also mentioned that they have 300 Phd or some master mind in graphic technology which are just working for gameworks.