Drug overdoses now kill more US citizen's than guns

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Progressive brainwashing at its finest.

OMG!! LIKE THIS IS TOTALLY ACCURATE!
Need that safe space maxipad?

 

[Blue_Max]

Need that safe space maxipad?

Nope, they exist solely for your pals. The play-doh, bubbles, cookies, colouring books and frolicking puppy videos exist for those who identify with the far-leftist narratives ONLY.
You, yourselves, claim the rest of the world is a safe space for me. No problem, I'm able to cope with life so I don't need one.

Unlike you poor, delicate little snowflakes offended by pretty much everything and demand the whole world legally stop hurting your feeeeeeelings.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

lol, really? explain please.

The DEA moved hydrocodone from class III to class II, making it more difficult for legal addicts to stay on it. The DEA is under the DOJ. Obama appoints the DA to lead the DOJ. Hence, his administration.

Now, granted, obviously this is an ongoing problem and opioid misuse predates Obama, but actions taken during his administration, by people he has the power to control, have led to the specific problem of overdosing and deaths. Preventing doctors from prescribing those drugs in the first place would also help, but it doesn't solve anything for the millions already taking them.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Nope, they exist solely for your pals. The play-doh, bubbles, cookies, colouring books and frolicking puppy videos exist for those who identify with the far-leftist narratives ONLY.
You, yourselves, claim the rest of the world is a safe space for me. No problem, I'm able to cope with life so I don't need one.

Unlike you poor, delicate little snowflakes offended by pretty much everything and demand the whole world legally stop hurting your feeeeeeelings.

poor little canadian snowflake, clearly you're right. and everyone else is wrong. no, no need for a safe space for you, you big alpha, you. you're better than everyone else, all those womyn folks, the mooslims, all those evil no good folks. you're superior in every way, no need for a safe space for you.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

The DEA moved hydrocodone from class III to class II, making it more difficult for legal addicts to stay on it. The DEA is under the DOJ. Obama appoints the DA to lead the DOJ. Hence, his administration.

Now, granted, obviously this is an ongoing problem and opioid misuse predates Obama, but actions taken during his administration, by people he has the power to control, have led to the specific problem of overdosing and deaths. Preventing doctors from prescribing those drugs in the first place would also help, but it doesn't solve anything for the millions already taking them.

Ya know, kinda fair enough. When I saw a commercial for constipation due to prolonged opiate based pain meds, I just shook my head in disgust. A pill to help you deal with a pill that is messing up your physiology.
Personally, I blame the Rx companies, and their lobbyists. They push their shit on the populace, and we get hooked in the bag by whichever opiate is the flavor of the day. I had some surgery back in Oct and they were going to use fentanyl, and I was very hesitant, but it was a very low and very supervised dose. I've been on those pain meds from shoulder surgery and neck surgery and they just fvck you up. If your Rx is out and the doc won't write a new one, the street is where you score.
Luckily I didn't get that desperate, but I could see how you could.

 

[Blue_Max]

poor little canadian snowflake, clearly you're right. and everyone else is wrong. no, no need for a safe space for you, you big alpha, you. you're better than everyone else, all those womyn folks, the mooslims, all those evil no good folks. you're superior in every way, no need for a safe space for you.

Heh.... you didn't even TRY to make a statement this time. C'mon... string those buzzwords together and maybe you can make a coherent argument or rebuttal.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Heh.... you didn't even TRY to make a statement this time. C'mon... string those buzzwords together and maybe you can make a coherent argument or rebuttal.

nope, I stand by that incoherent word salad, it makes as much or more sense than your incessant whining from up north.

 

[norseamd]

Kratom futures look bright .

Im not so sure. There are increasing political forces to ban Kratom. And with Jeff Sessions as Attorney General?

 

[MrSquished]

The DEA moved hydrocodone from class III to class II, making it more difficult for legal addicts to stay on it. The DEA is under the DOJ. Obama appoints the DA to lead the DOJ. Hence, his administration.

Now, granted, obviously this is an ongoing problem and opioid misuse predates Obama, but actions taken during his administration, by people he has the power to control, have led to the specific problem of overdosing and deaths. Preventing doctors from prescribing those drugs in the first place would also help, but it doesn't solve anything for the millions already taking them.

So because it's harder to get their pill now they all run out and shoot up Heroin?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Nope, they exist solely for your pals. The play-doh, bubbles, cookies, colouring books and frolicking puppy videos exist for those who identify with the far-leftist narratives ONLY.
You, yourselves, claim the rest of the world is a safe space for me. No problem, I'm able to cope with life so I don't need one.

Unlike you poor, delicate little snowflakes offended by pretty much everything and demand the whole world legally stop hurting your feeeeeeelings.

Dude, the only person I see complaining about their feelings is you. Constantly.

Li'l Max, terrified of scary SocialJusticeWarriors. ROFL.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So because it's harder to get their pill now they all run out and shoot up Heroin?

Not necessarily heroin heroin from the town dealer in a dark alley, but whatever they can get, yeah. Any prescription opioid can result in overdoses and death just like heroin, even if the exact toxicity fluctuates on a drug-by-drug basis, and if it's tougher for people to get their fix through the standard avenue, they're going to start self-medicating.

 

[MrSquished]

Not necessarily heroin heroin from the town dealer in a dark alley, but whatever they can get, yeah. Any prescription opiod can result in overdoses and death just like heroin, even if the exact toxicity fluctuates on a drug-by-drug basis, and if it's tougher for people to get their fix through the standard avenue, they're going to start self-medicating.

I agree, some, but not all of people that were previously on strong opiod painkillers will go out and find an illegitimate source for something to feed their newly created addiction.

That's why this is a healthcare issue and shouldn't be a criminal one. It starts at the beginning - when folks are prescribed certain painkillers that should INCLUDE treatment and help to wean them off of them properly when they are no longer needed - not just being thrown to the wolves. And for those who are getting illegal drugs and using them, again a healthcare issue, not a criminal one. Putting them in jail and giving them a criminal history is just detrimental - there should be rehabs available to those folks. Get them off the drugs and back into society as productive citizens - not continuing to fill up what is the largest jail population in the world. Of course the success rate won't be 100% by any means but its a hell of a lot better than creating a massive class of criminals.

 

[OverVolt]

Its also a cultural pill popping problem. No respect for the side effects and risks of pills.

 

[superstition]

It is pretty interesting that in the USA a doctor can be convicted of Murder for prescribing medication, while a cop can shoot a man in the back on video and they won't even give him manslaughter. Both Doctors and Cops are given great responsibility, but only one of them actually gets held to account when things go wrong.

No, one of them gets imprisoned for crimes committed by others.

Doctors who prescribe meds to adults are not responsible for abuse of those meds by adults, period. I don't care what our ridiculous justice system says. It's absurd to call a doctor a murderer no matter how easily her patients were able to get prescriptions for painkillers.

 

[superstition]

I agree, some, but not all of people that were previously on strong opiod painkillers will go out and find an illegitimate source for something to feed their newly created addiction.

A lot of people have never taken strong opioids and treat them like they're some sort of bogeyman.

INSTANTLY ADDICTIVE! MAKES PEOPLE INTO MENACING ZOMBIES!

(Those of us who have taken them when necessary realize they're not some sort of instantly addictive monstrosity and are the most effective way of healing from acute pain. Why? Because you can actually fall asleep and get the rest needed to heal.)

Meanwhile, the government only recently stopped purposefully harming people's livers by forcing large amounts of acetaminophen into even mild meds like hydrocodone, ostensibly to discourage abuse.

Just like they discouraged the abuse of ethanol by lacing it with methanol.

I consider Xanax and Paxil more dangerous than oxycodone. And yet doctors are happy to not only prescribe Paxil but to double the dosage to combat its terrible side-effects, making the addiction worse. Then, to top it off, they'll prescribe an anti-psychotic to try to mask the side-effects. This med will make a person so loopy they'll end up being fired from work. Yeah, great medicine.

 

[momeNt]

A lot of people have never taken strong opioids and treat them like they're some sort of bogeyman.

INSTANTLY ADDICTIVE! MAKES PEOPLE INTO MENACING ZOMBIES!

(Those of us who have taken them when necessary realize they're not some sort of instantly addictive monstrosity and are the most effective way of healing from acute pain. Why? Because you can actually fall asleep and get the rest needed to heal.)

Meanwhile, the government only recently stopped purposefully harming people's livers by forcing large amounts of acetaminophen into even mild meds like hydrocodone, ostensibly to discourage abuse.

Just like they discouraged the abuse of ethanol by lacing it with methanol.

I consider Xanax and Paxil more dangerous than oxycodone.

What? So you're saying the opiate junkie is going to be concerned about his liver so he will stop abusing? That's a brilliant solution to this problem! Maybe people would stop altogether if the bottles it came in weren't BPA free.

 

[superstition]

What? So you're saying the opiate junkie is going to be concerned about his liver so he will stop abusing? That's a brilliant solution to this problem! Maybe people would stop altogether if the bottles it came in weren't BPA free.

That was the rationale for putting large doses of acetaminophen into opioids, yes. The only reason the practice was stopped was because research proved that much smaller doses were highly damaging to the liver, making it harder for the government to mandate liver destruction.*

It's a similar amount of concern to that shown by preventing people from being able to get prescriptions for opioids and turning them into elephant tranquilizer statistics.

*Similarly, when people found out about the FDA letting corporate agra heavily lace feed with arsenic to combat parasites from overcrowded filthy environments there was a dog and pony show about voluntarily withdraw and banning. Meanwhile, at least two of the basically identical drugs are still approved and in use.

Carlin: They don't care about you. At all. At all. At all.

 

[momeNt]

That was the rationale for putting large doses of acetaminophen into opioids, yes. The only reason the practice was stopped was because research proved that much smaller doses were highly damaging to the liver, making it harder for the government to mandate liver destruction.*

It's a similar amount of concern to that shown by preventing people from being able to get prescriptions for opioids and turning them into elephant tranquilizer statistics.

*Similarly, when people found out about the FDA letting corporate agra heavily lace feed with arsenic to combat parasites from overcrowded filthy environments there was a dog and pony show about voluntarily withdraw and banning. Meanwhile, at least two of the basically identical drugs are still approved and in use.

Carlin: They don't care about you. At all. At all. At all.

Yea that's likely not true. I'd argue that it was likely to get a patent on two drugs that no longer had a patent. Combining two drugs off patent is pretty common in big pharma.

 

[superstition]

Yea that's likely not true.

Incorrect.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3503437/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4487354/

Acetaminophen, however, was not always one of the components in Vicodin. On October 27, 1970 President Richard Nixon signed the Controlled Substances Act. This made it either easier or more difficult to obtain a drug based on how likely that drug was to be abused. Through this act drugs were grouped into five different Schedules (classifications) based on its potential for abuse. Without the added acetaminophen Vicodin would be classified in a specific Schedule since the government thought this would make it more likely to be abused. To avoid production delays and problems with the Food and Drug Administration, manufactures added the acetaminophen in order to get a schedule III classification, thinking that adding the acetaminophen would make it less likely to be abused. This made it easier for medical professionals to prescribe the drug, easier for the patient to get the drug, and made it cheaper for companies to produce it. So, essentially the government is poisoning the public with acetaminophen to stop them from poisoning themselves with Vicodin.

Surprisingly, the government added a toxic chemical to a drug to dissuade people from abusing it. Sound familiar?

Acetaminophen, however, is extremely toxic; overdose from acetaminophen is the leading cause of acute liver failure and accounts for some 35,000 unintentional overdoses each year. Typically, there is between 500 and 750 milligrams of acetaminophen in Vicodin. The government recommends that a person does not consume more than 4000 milligrams of acetaminophen a day but some doctors say that it should be capped at 3,250 per day. Consuming any more than that can lead to liver failure or an overdose, although damage can occur at lower doses if they are more frequent.

Though most people don’t know it, the acetaminophen (better known by its brand name Tylenol) can often be the most deadly ingredient in prescription pain medications that contain opioids like codeine. Although the damage linked to opioid overdose can be entirely reversed with an antidote if the victim is treated quickly, high doses of acetaminophen (which is also found in cold medications) can irreparably damage the liver—and there is no comparable antidote.

Although the inclusion of acetaminophen in the combination pain-killers is intended in part to deter abuse of mild opioids, ironically, for some pain patients it’s the ingredient that proves more dangerous.

In a statement, Sandra Kweder, MD, deputy director of the Office of New Drugs in the FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research said, “Overdose from prescription combination products containing acetaminophen account for nearly half of all cases of acetaminophen-related liver failure in the U.S., many of which result in liver transplant or death.”

Similar attempts to deter alcohol abuse during Prohibition by including poisonous chemicals in industrial alcohol that was being diverted for use by bootleggers resulted in the deaths of roughly 10,000 people; more recently, chemicals added to anti-anxiety and pain medications to prevent injection have instead resulted in limb amputations after the substances caused blood clots or other complications.

FDA: Acetaminophen doses over 325 mg might lead to liver damage

Plenty of sources if you care to look into it.

 

[momeNt]

Incorrect.

Source?

 

[Darwin333]

So because it's harder to get their pill now they all run out and shoot up Heroin?

Not people on hydrocodone but people that were abusing stronger opiates, yes. It's the only other readily available and cheap opiate that they can find.

 

[interchange]

Hydrocodone is an opioid period. Aside from buprenorphine, all opioids are full agonists. This means that the notion of "strength" is a function of dose. Actual pharmacology (bioavailability, half-life, etc.) adds complications, but a simplistic statement would be that any opioid carries high dependency potential and can be a step toward illicit use (including heroin).

Hydrocodone still needed a provider's prescription before, but rescheduling does mean a paper Rx became necessary. I feel that a doctor calling in prescriptions for any opioids is inappropriate, and the rescheduling does make it harder to fake a prescription. I do imagine that there were people who went from less dangerous abuse of opioids to more dangerous abuse of opioids as a result of these barriers.

Personally, I think the opportunity to address opioid use in this country lies in 2 places:
1. not getting people to a point of abusing opioids in the first place
2. when it is identified, providing treatment rather than rejection or legal action

 

[interchange]

No, one of them gets imprisoned for crimes committed by others.

Doctors who prescribe meds to adults are not responsible for abuse of those meds by adults, period. I don't care what our ridiculous justice system says. It's absurd to call a doctor a murderer no matter how easily her patients were able to get prescriptions for painkillers.

I disagree. How is opioid prescription different than any other form of malpractice? If a physician is providing quantities which may be lethal, not providing informed consent, not reasonably attempting to identify abuse, and not treating abuse when it is found, on what basis is their liability absolved?

 

[hal2kilo]

What? So you're saying the opiate junkie is going to be concerned about his liver so he will stop abusing? That's a brilliant solution to this problem! Maybe people would stop altogether if the bottles it came in weren't BPA free.

No they aren't concerned about their livers and die. 4 grams of acetaminophen is the max you can take daily. Hydrocodone typically have either 350 miligrams to 500 miligrams of acetaminophen. Theoretically, then depending on which you are prescribed, 12 or 8 pills is all you should take in a day. For someone who is addicted to opiates this is not hard. People were dying from liver failure. My brothers ex (who was a VP for a software company by the way) got addicted to Oxy's which don't have acetaminophen in them. She started out with hydrocodone and tranks (long story) but when she couldn't get her Oxy's she went to her trove of doctor shopped hydrocodone and ended up in the hospital with liver failure (which she survived from). This began the divorce from that point on.

Bottom line is they took the formulations with acetaminophen off the market to save livers.

 

[Darwin333]

I agree, some, but not all of people that were previously on strong opiod painkillers will go out and find an illegitimate source for something to feed their newly created addiction.

That's why this is a healthcare issue and shouldn't be a criminal one. It starts at the beginning - when folks are prescribed certain painkillers that should INCLUDE treatment and help to wean them off of them properly when they are no longer needed - not just being thrown to the wolves. And for those who are getting illegal drugs and using them, again a healthcare issue, not a criminal one. Putting them in jail and giving them a criminal history is just detrimental - there should be rehabs available to those folks. Get them off the drugs and back into society as productive citizens - not continuing to fill up what is the largest jail population in the world. Of course the success rate won't be 100% by any means but its a hell of a lot better than creating a massive class of criminals.

This X1000

I knew someone who was in pain management that was being prescribed a crazy amount of Roxycodone and hydrocodone for well over a year. She had to go to the ER and the doctor there gave her a prescription for 3 Vicodin and it was against the rules for her to get pain pills from another doctor. Granted she did break the rules but they just flat cut her off, no tapering her with lower dosages or anything. So now she was dealing with the actual, and very real, pain as well as crazy withdrawals. She started buying pills off the street until they started getting harder to find and the street price went way up. I haven't talked to her in forever but I wouldn't be surprised at all if she moved on to heroin as a last resort.

I know a few others that were on hardcore painkillers for a long time and when they told their doctors that they legitimately didn't need them anymore their doctors just cut them off cold. They were using them as prescribed and for legitimate reasons so it never dawned on them to think that they were addicted to them. Boy, they sure found out they were and went through absolute hell in withdrawals. Luckily I knew about kratom and that was able to help them through it a bit. I can easily see how some people might stop taking the pills before talking to the doctor and see what hell awaits them so they keep telling their doctors they need them or start getting them through other means if their doctors cut them off.