Drove a 2012 BMW 650i Convertible last night

[Dr. Detroit]

We've had a Convertible in the Household for the past 7yrs -

California weather makes it a perfect car. If its under 60-degrees & sunny, put the top down, windows, up, wind-screen up, and turn on the seat heaters.

We made it almost to Truckee last May at 11pm at night with this configuration before the 46 degree air temps finally said to put the top up.

For those who have never owned or spent significant time in one - no wet-noddle handling unless its a chop-top conversion. The Solara was the last one I think that was a chop top 'vert.

If its designed from the ground up as a convertible they are not sloppy handlers.

I still think the E550 & Jaguar are the best looking 4-seater 'verts out there!

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Don't be mad because you can't accept what your future holds.

:whiste:

We have # of BMWs in the family and PLENTY of experience with German vehicles. If you don't believe me I suggest you do some work on these cars (I've done MANY MANY hours)....then you will find out how great they are and of what quality.

🙂

Please... I have had MANY german vehicles... and italian, and british, and japanese, and american.


And... German cars are overwhelmingly built better. Yes, it does require some skill to work on one, but you get what you pay for. If you want a milk box with wheels then fine. If you want a well-built german machine buy a BMW.

More sophistication means more parts, which means statistically higher probability of issues. That being said, my german cars (BMW specifically) have held up much better than other brands over time.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Please... I have had MANY german vehicles... and italian, and british, and japanese, and american.


And... German cars are overwhelmingly built better. Yes, it does require some skill to work on one, but you get what you pay for. If you want a milk box with wheels then fine. If you want a well-built german machine buy a BMW.

Well build? Is that why my moms X5 spent first 3 months of her ownership at a dealer with Vanos system failure (amongst many few other things?).

As I work on these cars and see how they design them and build them, I'm sorry but your "German cars are overwhelmingly build better" is an illusion.

If you were to say that in the 80s/90s, I would probably agree with you. But now days, sorry but German car quality has tanked (and so has their design IMO, but that's a personal preference). Quality of materials is subpar (especially on the interior).....it's no better than today Kia/Hyindai. Heck many car enthusiast actually prefer quality of Korean interiors now.

I can't even vacume the dash on my moms X5 without buttons getting sucked up/falling off. Fake wood is cracked. And it only has 40k miles on it.

Recently her door handle broke and I replaced it, what a pain in the ass to work on and the piece that broke off is a joke. You can clearly tell that it was DESIGNED TO FAIL!

More sophistication means more parts, which means statistically higher probability of issues. That being said, my german cars (BMW specifically) have held up much better than other brands over time.

Hasn't been the case on my end. I would never EVER recommend any friend/family member (that I care about) a German car (especially outside of warranty period). They are too complex/overly expensive for no apparent reason.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Lol at your mechanic experience on mom's car.


And, maybe she had a lemon, I don't know. I do know that most of the people with "german car problems" do not maintain them properly, and try to cheap out by doing things like having their son work on the car.

You gotta pay to play.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Lol at your mechanic experience on mom's car.

That was 1 example. Past 15 years I've been fixing/maintaining and working on most of my families/my cars.

And, maybe she had a lemon, I don't know. I do know that most of the people with "german car problems" do not maintain them properly, and try to cheap out by doing things like having their son work on the car.

You gotta pay to play.

I see what you are saying. So you are the type that brings the car to the dealer for an ass raping.

The reason why I work on my moms car is because
a) I have experience with cars
b) because I don't want my mom/family to get raped
c) hard to find a good indy mechanic in my area

Besides the fact that BMW themselves (MB as well) tell you specifically NOT to maintain your car property. That's right, 15-20k oil changes intervals are simply stupid and many owners end up paying the price AFTER the warranty expire.

There has been many people in the car enthusiast world that have done Oil analysis and it's been proven that Synthetic or not, oil looses properties and breaks down after 6-10k miles.

So much for "proper maintenance".....even your beloved BMW is laughing at you all the way to the bank.

I have a friend that is a service adviser at MB and he pretty much confirms above. Lots of cars int he lot with engine problems prior to 100k.

If you ask him what is the most reliable MB, he will tell you 80s 300Ds......

 

[KIAman]

I can't even vacume the dash on my moms X5 without buttons getting sucked up/falling off. Fake wood is cracked. And it only has 40k miles on it.

Unless something changed very recently, every BMW comes with 50k full warranty and full maintenance. WTF are you working on the car for?

 

[Pantoot]

Unless something changed very recently, every BMW comes with 50k full warranty and full maintenance. WTF are you working on the car for?

Maybe its a 2000?

 

[KIAman]

Maybe its a 2000?

Then he needs to qualify that the car is over 13 years old rather than saying "it only has 40k miles on it" when talking about how it is unexpectedly falling apart.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Please... I have had MANY german vehicles... and italian, and british, and japanese, and american.


And... German cars are overwhelmingly built better. Yes, it does require some skill to work on one, but you get what you pay for. If you want a milk box with wheels then fine. If you want a well-built german machine buy a BMW.

More sophistication means more parts, which means statistically higher probability of issues. That being said, my german cars (BMW specifically) have held up much better than other brands over time.

I think this is taking things too far. I have owned many Japanese cars and presently own two BMWs. To me the added maintenance cost is worthwhile because I enjoy the driving experience, but the notion that German cars are "built better" than Japanese ones is contradicted by the reality of owning them.

My E90 has had many more issues than any car I've ever owned, mostly (but not exclusively) electronic in nature. Fortunately most of this was under warranty, but a couple of the repairs were major and would have been very costly if they'd been out of pocket. I have never had a Japanese car that was anywhere near as problematic.

The overall reliability surveys bear out that BMWs are at best mediocre when it comes to reliability, and less reliable than any Japanese maker. You can't reasonably explain this away by saying it's because they are so "sophisticated." There's no question any reasonably modern BMW is more sophisticated than, say, a Carolla, but I would not agree it's more sophisticated than, say, a Lexus, and the Lexus (while not my cup of tea) will consistently be meaningfully more reliable over its lifespan than the BMW. BMWs are also less reliable than most other German cars (Audi, for example).

 

[Vdubchaos]

Unless something changed very recently, every BMW comes with 50k full warranty and full maintenance. WTF are you working on the car for?

Because warranty expires after 5 years....

 

[SpatiallyAware]

All I'm saying is that I have quite a bit of experience with BMW, including working on them myself, and the vast VAST majority of 'problematic' cars were either abused, or bought cheap due to abuse.

Just like any complicated piece of equipment, you don't search craigslist with $4k and expect to find a decent vehicle. You will pay much more than you saved in upkeep.


I've posted about this a lot.. Things like people buying an off lease m3... Terrible idea. A former leased sportscar is likely abused, so don't be surprised when you have problems. Camry/Civic/whatever is different, they tend to be abused less and can handle more abuse.


I would also like to see pics of this cracked wood. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I have only heard of a couple situations (which can happen with any car with real wood...) and it was within a few months of purchasing the car.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I think this is taking things too far. I have owned many Japanese cars and presently own two BMWs. To me the added maintenance cost is worthwhile because I enjoy the driving experience, but the notion that German cars are "built better" than Japanese ones is contradicted by the reality of owning them.

My E90 has had many more issues than any car I've ever owned, mostly (but not exclusively) electronic in nature. Fortunately most of this was under warranty, but a couple of the repairs were major and would have been very costly if they'd been out of pocket. I have never had a Japanese car that was anywhere near as problematic.

Correct, Germans are well known for elecronics gremlins YET they choose to put more electronic crap into the cars than just about any other makers.

The overall reliability surveys bear out that BMWs are at best mediocre when it comes to reliability, and less reliable than any Japanese maker. You can't reasonably explain this away by saying it's because they are so "sophisticated." There's no question any reasonably modern BMW is more sophisticated than, say, a Carolla, but I would not agree it's more sophisticated than, say, a Lexus, and the Lexus (while not my cup of tea) will consistently be meaningfully more reliable over its lifespan than the BMW. BMWs are also less reliable than most other German cars (Audi, for example).

Correct. But I wouldn't take reliability studies seriously. CR and JD power get paid by manufactures and their studies are completely flawed.

Regardless, German cars don't have a great track record when it comes to reliability.

 

[Vdubchaos]

All I'm saying is that I have quite a bit of experience with BMW, including working on them myself, and the vast VAST majority of 'problematic' cars were either abused, or bought cheap due to abuse.

Just like any complicated piece of equipment, you don't search craigslist with $4k and expect to find a decent vehicle. You will pay much more than you saved in upkeep.


I've posted about this a lot.. Things like people buying an off lease m3... Terrible idea. A former leased sportscar is likely abused, so don't be surprised when you have problems. Camry/Civic/whatever is different, they tend to be abused less and can handle more abuse.


I would also like to see pics of this cracked wood. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I have only heard of a couple situations (which can happen with any car with real wood...) and it was within a few months of purchasing the car.

You are assuming BMW puts real wood in their cars (and perhaps in some they do).

In my moms X5 it's plastic "fake wood".....and it's cracked all over....buttons ont he dash falling off (my mom hardly touches them).

I will give BMW credit to quality Letherette (vinyl) seats. They have held up amazing (still like new)......while my step fathers 3 series real leather is looking horrible/worn etc.

 

[iamwiz82]

You are assuming BMW puts real wood in their cars (and perhaps in some they do).

In my moms X5 it's plastic "fake wood".....and it's cracked all over....buttons ont he dash falling off (my mom hardly touches them).

I will give BMW credit to quality Letherette (vinyl) seats. They have held up amazing (still like new)......while my step fathers 3 series real leather is looking horrible/worn etc.

My E90 has real wood. I have removed a number of the pieces.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

My E90 has real wood. I have removed a number of the pieces.

Yeah I think they have only used real wood (though admittedly a thin veneer) for years.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

You are assuming BMW puts real wood in their cars (and perhaps in some they do).

In my moms X5 it's plastic "fake wood".....and it's cracked all over....buttons ont he dash falling off (my mom hardly touches them).

I will give BMW credit to quality Letherette (vinyl) seats. They have held up amazing (still like new)......while my step fathers 3 series real leather is looking horrible/worn etc.

BMW leather is fantastic. If your dad's 3 series is THAT bad then he likely didn't care for it properly, which goes back to my lack of maintenance comment. Maybe he would be better off in an Avalon or old LS400.


I still want pics of that dashboard. I have not heard of anything like that, and have a good bit of experience with it. You (edit: constantly) come on here often bashing bmw yet you haven't backed it up with any real data at all.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

BMW leather is fantastic. If your dad's 3 series is THAT bad then he likely didn't care for it properly, which goes back to my lack of maintenance comment. Maybe he would be better off in an Avalon or old LS400.


I still want pics of that dashboard. I have not heard of anything like that, and have a good bit of experience with it. You come on here often bashing bmw yet you haven't backed it up with any real data at all.

I have BMW Dakota leather in my E90 and nappa leather in my E46 M3 and they are both pretty nice. The Dakota leather, in particular, feels very thick and sturdy. I get the sense it will hold up very well over time.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Correct, Germans are well known for elecronics gremlins YET they choose to put more electronic crap into the cars than just about any other makers.



Correct. But I wouldn't take reliability studies seriously. CR and JD power get paid by manufactures and their studies are completely flawed.

Regardless, German cars don't have a great track record when it comes to reliability.

Again, poor track record based on what data?

If you buy an off lease bmw, never treat the leather, let your teenage son tear apart the doors, then don't be surprised when the thing doesn't last. Not trying to be crappy to you here, that just seems to be how it goes.


I have yet to hear of a properly maintained bmw that was a lemon. Every single person I've encountered who complains about their firsthand reliability experiences are going 15+ k miles between oil changes and in general treating the car like shit.

Or, they bought a bottom of the barrel craigslist car (or off lease abused sports car), then bitch and moan when they have to replace a bunch of stuff.

We've gone through this numerous times, complete with forum members posting up prices on parts between bmws and japenese cars (which were within 10% of each other). This whole thing about all bmws being nightmares is a myth.

 

[Pantoot]

I have BMW Dakota leather in my E90 and nappa leather in my E46 M3 and they are both pretty nice. The Dakota leather, in particular, feels very thick and sturdy. I get the sense it will hold up very well over time.

I had the merino in my e60 and it was fantastic 5 years later. Nappa in the F10 and so far it is flawless.
Both are light years better than the leather in our Acura MDX.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Lexol my dakota leather once a season and my black interior with nontinted windows.

Still looks brand new even with the Florida sun.

 

[dirtboy]

I didn't understand convertibles until I bought a M3 Cab. Living in Calif I drive with the top down as much as possible... it's awesome.

 

[nerp]

Father in law's brand new 328i was 'burning' coolant. Reservoir was alarmingly low. This is with less than 5,000 miles. Dealer topped it off. Said it was normal. They see it all the time. Keep filling the reservoir when it gets low.

Ok then.

 

[RichUK]

Nice ride! The new 6 series looks great, but very expensive for the top end models.

 

[Throckmorton]

I'm curious, how many times have you rolled a car over into its roof in your lifetime?

I guess we won't even bother to touch on the subject of motorcycles.

The B pillar also protects you in a side impact

 

[KDKPSJ]

You are assuming BMW puts real wood in their cars (and perhaps in some they do).

In my moms X5 it's plastic "fake wood".....and it's cracked all over....buttons ont he dash falling off (my mom hardly touches them).

I will give BMW credit to quality Letherette (vinyl) seats. They have held up amazing (still like new)......while my step fathers 3 series real leather is looking horrible/worn etc.

Interesting.. I am not sure how old 3 series your father has, but my 06 E90's leather seat, which I literally didn't give much care at all (Let me tell you honestly.. I only cleaned the seat once in my 6 years of ownership so far. I bought it as CPO back in 07) still has ok condition. Not like-new great, but fairly good for how much I didn't care. Also, no crack on trim or buttons falling off. And I also thought my car had real wood? I'd give BMW a good job to make the trim feeling like real wood if it was plastic.

Edit: Ok.. Googling says it's real wood with plastic/acrylic/whatever coating to prevent wood from moisture. And looks like BMW has been using this method for fairly long time. Probably that coating layer is cracking?