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Drop Out, Obama

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,980
3,758
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... he's taken in tens of millions of dollars in campaign contributions and is currently ahead in the race. He can't drop out.
This, of course, is the fundamental reason Obama can't bow out. He is obligated by reciprocity, to represent those of us who support him. He has that moral duty and can't respond to the wishes of the other side. If the people who want him as President were to ask him to step aside, that would be a different matter, one that will never happen. I vote for what I want, my fundamental right, my ideals, my fantasy, my dreams and I see in them nothing that would want me to want him to defer to Clinton.

If you don't agree, you can vote differently or express a different opinion.

What I don't understand is why those who see utility in a Clinton Obama ticket ignore the obvious moral duty he has to me and those who support him.

Hillary is the known. The known is what has gotten us where we are. I want go pearl diving in the Sea of Obama. We need change that is disruptive and the known won't provide that. It's a certainty, I think. The Clintons practice politics with a finger in the air.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
The Stuper Delegates have the Right to ask Obama to step aside
- based on "electibility"



we shall see how the vision turns out

. . . in mine, "pearl diving" comes up [mc] Lame
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... he's taken in tens of millions of dollars in campaign contributions and is currently ahead in the race. He can't drop out.
This, of course, is the fundamental reason Obama can't bow out. He is obligated by reciprocity, to represent those of us who support him. He has that moral duty and can't respond to the wishes of the other side. If the people who want him as President were to ask him to step aside, that would be a different matter, one that will never happen. I vote for what I want, my fundamental right, my ideals, my fantasy, my dreams and I see in them nothing that would want me to want him to defer to Clinton.

If you don't agree, you can vote differently or express a different opinion.

What I don't understand is why those who see utility in a Clinton Obama ticket ignore the obvious moral duty he has to me and those who support him.

Hillary is the known. The known is what has gotten us where we are. I want go pearl diving in the Sea of Obama. We need change that is disruptive and the known won't provide that. It's a certainty, I think. The Clintons practice politics with a finger in the air.
Heh, sure, Clintons winning every single major states and the support of blue collar, hardworking, middle class, core democratic voters, is just practicing politics with a finger in the air. and she isn't obligated to represent those who are the backbone of America and have been hurt the most during the 8 freaking Bush years.

Well, at least you admit that you are voting for your fantasy and your dream. But the rest of us who have been through the real world, the tough life prefer someone who has been through the same and present her ideas through real, concrete ideas, rather then just words.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
People keep bringing up how the Obama/Clinton fight is hurting the Democratic party and its chance against McCain, but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of why that's true. Hillary and Obama are both getting a ton of press because of the fight, getting voters more and more familiar with them, while McCain can't get any media attention to save his life. Not to mention that it looks like the Democrats have TWO really good candidates while the Republicans are pulling out a classic candidate from 8 years ago because the rest of the field was composed of loons and goobers.

But the most important reason I don't think the OP position adds up is that the primary is looking like THE battle right now, and whoever wins is going to look like a political winner. That will give Obama or Clinton a huge amount of victory momentum while people are struggling to remember that the actual election isn't over yet. I just can't see this being a BAD thing for the Democratic party.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Why?

MOST of the Democratic voters - their BASE - the Cracker Middle-class working redneck semi-religious + white women voters - say they will NOW vote for McLame instead of Obama if he is the Candidate instead of Hitlery .. they now have serious "doubts"

damage is done like a slow-acting poison and Obama is dying on stage

Rev Wright was evidently Wrong for Obama



this definitely goes to the Stuper Delegates - unless Obama takes all the remaining primaries in these KEY areas - and there is no "winner" anymore .. just a weakened candidate that "survived" dirty back-room dealing

my analysis
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
91
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People keep bringing up how the Obama/Clinton fight is hurting the Democratic party and its chance against McCain, but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of why that's true. Hillary and Obama are both getting a ton of press because of the fight, getting voters more and more familiar with them, while McCain can't get any media attention to save his life. Not to mention that it looks like the Democrats have TWO really good candidates while the Republicans are pulling out a classic candidate from 8 years ago because the rest of the field was composed of loons and goobers.

But the most important reason I don't think the OP position adds up is that the primary is looking like THE battle right now, and whoever wins is going to look like a political winner. That will give Obama or Clinton a huge amount of victory momentum while people are struggling to remember that the actual election isn't over yet. I just can't see this being a BAD thing for the Democratic party.
Remember how you felt when the SCOTUS ruled on Bush v Gore in 2000? I think the article in the original post is pointing out that, when the supers decide this nomination, half of the Dem party is going to feel something like that.

The way it's shaping up, there could be a lot of similarities between this primary and the general of 2000. Both were very close races, both had issues with votes not being counted, both had vote problems in Florida, the GE in 2000 ended with the SCOTUS making the decision, and this will likely end with the supers making the decision.

I doubt that the nominee, whoever it might be, will come out of the primary looking like a politcal winner to the whole party. It's more likely that half of the Dem party will feel victory momentum while the other half gets to feel "bitter".
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,980
3,758
126
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Originally posted by: Vic
Uh... he's taken in tens of millions of dollars in campaign contributions and is currently ahead in the race. He can't drop out.
This, of course, is the fundamental reason Obama can't bow out. He is obligated by reciprocity, to represent those of us who support him. He has that moral duty and can't respond to the wishes of the other side. If the people who want him as President were to ask him to step aside, that would be a different matter, one that will never happen. I vote for what I want, my fundamental right, my ideals, my fantasy, my dreams and I see in them nothing that would want me to want him to defer to Clinton.

If you don't agree, you can vote differently or express a different opinion.

What I don't understand is why those who see utility in a Clinton Obama ticket ignore the obvious moral duty he has to me and those who support him.

Hillary is the known. The known is what has gotten us where we are. I want go pearl diving in the Sea of Obama. We need change that is disruptive and the known won't provide that. It's a certainty, I think. The Clintons practice politics with a finger in the air.
Heh, sure, Clintons winning every single major states and the support of blue collar, hardworking, middle class, core democratic voters, is just practicing politics with a finger in the air. and she isn't obligated to represent those who are the backbone of America and have been hurt the most during the 8 freaking Bush years.

Well, at least you admit that you are voting for your fantasy and your dream. But the rest of us who have been through the real world, the tough life prefer someone who has been through the same and present her ideas through real, concrete ideas, rather then just words.
I think if your needs are politically negative for her you will be abandoned. You can think what you like. My reality in my opinion, is more real than yours.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
I think if your needs are politically negative for her you will be abandoned. You can think what you like. My reality in my opinion, is more real than yours.
Only to you . . to the rest of us it is ethereal and an illusion

you have been wrong about everything else - up till now
why are you more "real"? than anyone else? you are a moonbeam - elusive an impossible to pin down
You are "really wrong" is far more correct .. yet even politically incorrect as usual
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,980
3,758
126
One fine morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys came out to fight.

Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other.

A deaf policeman heard the noise, came and shot the two dead boys.

If you don't believe this tale is true, ask the lamp post, he saw it too.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One fine morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys came out to fight.

Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other.

A deaf policeman heard the noise, came and shot the two dead boys.

If you don't believe this tale is true, ask the lamp post, he saw it too.
Of course i believe, i am a chaos magician .. like Dr Tim Leary i explain the impossible by means of the insane clearly even to the deaf and blind

- i would be the lamp post i am providing the Dark Light of the Eternal witness; only it wasn't a lamp post you see and you are even more full of it now.



i'm glad to finally provide the balance

BTW, i couldn't stand it and Let Mr wilson have a piece of my mind
on their forums .. and offered to help
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,421
1
0
seriously. if he did that because hillary is so delusional and selfish, i would vote for mccain. at that point, i wouldn't give a shit anymore and would be thinking "fuck you hillary and fuck the democratic party and the superdelegates who don't have the balls to do shit."

this article is rubbish. WHERE ARE THE FUCKING SUPERDELEGATES? if they want the democratic party to go to shit, let them. im getting the fuck out then.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,942
126
I agree with that Maziwanka. If enough people moved over o the republican party and started voting for "center" candidates who plan on balancing the budget and don't mix up with religion we could put a dent into what those retards on the other side do.

If the dems lose this election i'm going to bail and vote for very moderate/left leaning republicans.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: maziwanka
seriously. if he did that because hillary is so delusional and selfish, i would vote for mccain. at that point, i wouldn't give a shit anymore and would be thinking "fuck you hillary and fuck the democratic party and the superdelegates who don't have the balls to do shit."

this article is rubbish. WHERE ARE THE FUCKING SUPERDELEGATES? if they want the democratic party to go to shit, let them. im getting the fuck out then.
i let Mr Wilson know what i thought of "my" article under his name, on his blog's forum



OK, you would vote for McLame .. what if Obama was Hitlery's VP?
- Obama is guaranteed President in 4 or 8 years!

With THAT Dem ticket ->> Clinton/Obama
- would you vote against Hillary if she PROMISES to ADOPT Obama's VISION?

what then ?

McLame is better?
- with my mismatch, you "get" Obama - and the world comes to love him
:heart:

MY plan and my *current* analysis
-Let Wilson try and steal that one :|
 

Superrock

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
467
1
0
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People keep bringing up how the Obama/Clinton fight is hurting the Democratic party and its chance against McCain, but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of why that's true. Hillary and Obama are both getting a ton of press because of the fight, getting voters more and more familiar with them, while McCain can't get any media attention to save his life.
In my opinion, I do think it's hurting the Democratic party. It's like soemone asking you to pick from two different flavors of ice cream and then each of the flavors throwing crap into the other flavor until, at the end you're less like to partake in either. The more negative campaign the more crap gets mixed in. Hillary has been laying the groundwork for the Republican campaign, painting Obama as out-of-touch and unsubstantiated hype and, to some extent, I believe it's working in the minds of some voters.

On the other hand, McCain's greatest assest is that most people don't know him. He just seems like an amicable old man who's likely gonna be keep the status quo which is the stability factor most seniors love having.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: RY62
Originally posted by: Rainsford
People keep bringing up how the Obama/Clinton fight is hurting the Democratic party and its chance against McCain, but I have yet to hear a convincing explanation of why that's true. Hillary and Obama are both getting a ton of press because of the fight, getting voters more and more familiar with them, while McCain can't get any media attention to save his life. Not to mention that it looks like the Democrats have TWO really good candidates while the Republicans are pulling out a classic candidate from 8 years ago because the rest of the field was composed of loons and goobers.

But the most important reason I don't think the OP position adds up is that the primary is looking like THE battle right now, and whoever wins is going to look like a political winner. That will give Obama or Clinton a huge amount of victory momentum while people are struggling to remember that the actual election isn't over yet. I just can't see this being a BAD thing for the Democratic party.
Remember how you felt when the SCOTUS ruled on Bush v Gore in 2000? I think the article in the original post is pointing out that, when the supers decide this nomination, half of the Dem party is going to feel something like that.

The way it's shaping up, there could be a lot of similarities between this primary and the general of 2000. Both were very close races, both had issues with votes not being counted, both had vote problems in Florida, the GE in 2000 ended with the SCOTUS making the decision, and this will likely end with the supers making the decision.

I doubt that the nominee, whoever it might be, will come out of the primary looking like a politcal winner to the whole party. It's more likely that half of the Dem party will feel victory momentum while the other half gets to feel "bitter".
Well I wasn't a Democrat in 2000 (hey, I was still in high school, sue me if I didn't know anything ;)), but I get what you're saying. Still, I don't think the population of Democrats who would vote for McCain if their candidate isn't nominated is large enough to worry about, so the danger is really that the losing side decides to stay home on election day. The reason I don't think that will happen is that most Democrats seem to feel that a change is necessary, and while the Democratic option might not look as good as their preferred candidate, he or she will still look far better than the eventual alternative.

I think of the sides like passionate car people...say BMW vs Mercedes. Sure, the various supporters argue like crazy when you put the two manufacturers up against each other, but if the alternative was the luxury model they DON'T like or a Kia, I don't see a lot of Mercedes people choosing a Kia just because they don't like BMWs as much.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: Superrock
...
On the other hand, McCain's greatest assest is that most people don't know him. He just seems like an amicable old man who's likely gonna be keep the status quo which is the stability factor most seniors love having.
Yeah, but how many OTHER people love the status quo today? Most people seem to feel that this country needs a change, which is NOT going to be a good campaigning position for McCain.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,520
0
0
Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
...
If the dems lose this election i'm going to bail and vote for very moderate/left leaning republicans.
And I'd like to own a unicorn, but I think we have to deal with things that actually exist. Don't get me wrong, I think there are plenty of moderate and even left leaning Republicans, but I don't think they make very much headway in elections. The Republican party has done a good job staying on the Reagan/Gingrich/Bush track, going back will be EXTREMELY difficult.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
i am going to vote for all "new" and inexperienced dems
- except Obama [unless he IS candidate]

that way they haven't had such a long time to learn how to steal effectively
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,214
2
0
That article is fvcking stupid. No need, I don't think, to really say much more on it.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: Skoorb
That article is fvcking stupid. No need, I don't think, to really say much more on it.
i agree.
good .. then don't bump it anymore

i agree with you, both! - finally

This topic deserves NO attention



... When you are right, you are right!
.. Damn, Mr. Wilson took MY idea and did a pretty bad article explaining or analyzing it .. at ANY rate, Obama's Old Buddy the Wrong Rev Wright is assassinating him slowly
:thumbsdown:

kind of like the "pastor version" of :music:"Killing him Loudly with his charge of politician, killing him loudly .. as his friend ...
... killing him loudly .. etc."
:music:

Obama Vision is obscured by his arrogance
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One fine morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys came out to fight.

Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other.

A deaf policeman heard the noise, came and shot the two dead boys.

If you don't believe this tale is true, ask the lamp post, he saw it too.
And then David threw tufts of dirt at random but random ducked and they hit the King square in the face.... "poop!" cried the King and a thousand iron pants fell... cuz in those days the King's word was law...

Obama is not new and refreshing... he is simply a younger version of all that proceeded him in the endeavor to grasp the power using the same means and methods. His finger like Hillary's is high in the air in search of the right thing to support. This is politics! They don't make the kind of person who stands on principle and let the bits fall where they may... Well perhaps they do.. but no one knows of them cuz they don't get anywhere. The only difference is who does who owe what kind of support to after election... Left is left and right is right... no changes from that ever will occur.. If you believe any of the utopia building dreams they spout then ... well.. One can look at a grape and believe they see an orange IF they convince themselves... but if it looks, waddles, quacks like a dang duck.. it is likely not to be a buffalo...
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,902
0
0
alienbabeltech.com
it is likely not to be a buffalo...
You say it better than i do



someone is trying to buffalo us

A day without sunshine is like night.



i swear to drunk i'm not God


start from the beginning and do it right...
ladies of the mens club,
i come before you to stand behind you
to tell you a tale you know nothing about
admission is free so pay at the door,
pull up a seat to sit on the floor
one fine day in the middle of the night
2 dead boys got up to fight
back to back they faced each other
drew their swords and shot each other
a deaf policeman heard the noise
and came and killed those 2 dead boys
if you dont believe my tale is true
ask the blindman he saw it too
Seems this is a classic in some parts of the
English speaking world:
Part 1.
One fine day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys* got up to fight [*or men]
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other
Part 2a.
One was blind and the other couldn't see
So they chose a dummy for a referee.
A blind man went to see fair play
A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"
[or: And two lame men came to carry them away]
Part 2b.
A paralysed donkey passing by
Kicked the blind man in the eye
Knocked him through a nine inch wall
Into a dry ditch and drowned them all
Part 2c.
A deaf policeman heard the noise
And came to arrest the two dead boys
If you don't believe this story?s true,
Ask the blind man he saw it too!


want more?

Here is another version:
1."I come before you, to stand behind you,
To tell you something I know nothing about.
Admission is free, so pay at the door;
Pull up a chair and sit on the floor:

2.Early this morning, late last night,
Two dead men rose up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot one 'nother.

3.A stone-deaf sheriff heard the noise,
And came and killed those two dead boys.
The mute psychotic shrieked in fright,
With words of joy at this ghastly sight.

4.Now if you doubt this lie is true?
Ask the blind man; he saw it, too."
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,980
3,758
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
One fine morning in the middle of the night, two dead boys came out to fight.

Back to back they faced each other, drew their swords and shot each other.

A deaf policeman heard the noise, came and shot the two dead boys.

If you don't believe this tale is true, ask the lamp post, he saw it too.
And then David threw tufts of dirt at random but random ducked and they hit the King square in the face.... "poop!" cried the King and a thousand iron pants fell... cuz in those days the King's word was law...

Obama is not new and refreshing... he is simply a younger version of all that proceeded him in the endeavor to grasp the power using the same means and methods. His finger like Hillary's is high in the air in search of the right thing to support. This is politics! They don't make the kind of person who stands on principle and let the bits fall where they may... Well perhaps they do.. but no one knows of them cuz they don't get anywhere. The only difference is who does who owe what kind of support to after election... Left is left and right is right... no changes from that ever will occur.. If you believe any of the utopia building dreams they spout then ... well.. One can look at a grape and believe they see an orange IF they convince themselves... but if it looks, waddles, quacks like a dang duck.. it is likely not to be a buffalo...
To see Layla you need Majnun's eyes.
 

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