Dragon Age has Day One Paid DLC

[coloumb]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

The devs have confirmed on the Bioware forums that the game has a quest giver IN GAME that asks you "would you like to take this quest?" and if yes, you get directed to pay for the DLC. I think this is hilarious.

As far as supplemental, I think this is an issue of semantics and public perception. You claim intention. So? All the side quests in the game could be removed and quest givers littered everywhere would direct you to the DLC page if you want to initiate a quest. It's not planned to be in the game as you say?--that's saying absolutely nothing. Maybe I never planned to sell the 4th wheel in my car, and I include that as supplemental material. Your intention changes nothing that the behavior leaves a bad taste in the consumer's mouth.

OMG..that's so freakin awesome - Reminds me of Free 2 Play DDO.. :disgust:

If this turns out to be a huge success - guess what we'll start encountering in other games [specifically games for windows Live]:

You walk up to what appears to be a huge door. Next to the door stands an npc that looks a lot like a sleazy car salesperson.

He speakeths to you: "You've arrived at the gateway to Xian-Meglocorpous-greedious. Do you wish to buy the key that will allow you access?"

You answer "Yes"

Sine the game requires you to be logged into Windows Live - the game automatically checks your account. If you have enough points - it is deducted from your account. If you do not have enough points, you enter your credit card information or game card #. Once the DLC is purchased - the door opens.

You answer "No" - The NPC kills you in cold blood, spits on your corpse, and loots everything including the clothes on your avatar's back. All of your saved games are erased and you start over from the beginning.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: ja1484

Who cares? Buy it if you want. Don't if you don't.

It's not like paid DLC is some new invention. Expansion packs have been around forever. They just used to make them longer and box them because that was the most profitable method of distribution. It isn't any more.

I fail to see how anyone is confused?

How many expansion packs were released on the LAUNCH DAY of the original game?

Oh, that's right...NONE.

Did you even bother to read the thread? :roll:

The apologists will justify anything...including blatant, unapologetic money-grabbing. It is truly mind-boggling.

You are an idiot. I just want to be clear about that. Businesses are in business to make money. It's their raison d'etre (that's French for "raisin entree"). You should have known that shit from the beginning.

What's truly mind boggling is that people in this world are surprised when businesses try to make as much profit as they can. This is capitalism. What the fuck did you expect?

Once again, what makes this system work is that you don't have to buy their product if you don't want to. Actually, that's how our entire economy works. You jackass. If you think BioWare is doing some eeeeeevil eeeeeevil stuff by offering to sell you entertainment, then I guess you don't have to buy it.

Do you see the argument you are making? Do you see that it is the same thing as saying "Bioware are not giving us free stuff! Boooo!"? Do you see that that is retarded?

Are you going to be pissed they didn't also include the game's cut content on a second disc for you so you can paste it back into the install folders too if you feel like it?

How on earth do you have that much trouble thinking clearly?

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Ah, gamers. Tell them you're offering optional additional content alongside the launch for $10, and they'll scream how immoral it is.
Tell them you're adding in additional content to the title and thus it will cost $10 more, and they'll yell it's too expensive.

There's no moral issues here, or ethical principles.

It's just people demanding stuff for free.

Thank you for not being a fucking moron. <3 xoxo.

Originally posted by: Via

What is up with people who defend corporations and their business practices to the death?

This same crap happened when Bioshock brought the limited-install DRM issue to the forefront.

Gamers with legitimate concerns and complaints were shouted down over and over by coporate shills telling them their concerns were not legitimate and that they should just shut up and take it.

It's not hard to figure out where this slippery slope leads (and IMO this is worse than limited installs): In the end, no complex game will be released in a complete state. DLC will become mandatory for finishing games.

If we wait until then to complain loudly it'll be too late.

Did you seriously just act like not being able to finish a video game without buying all of that video game was some kind of travesty? And these arguments are being made with a straight face?

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Mike Gayner

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Ah, gamers. Tell them you're offering optional additional content alongside the launch for $10, and they'll scream how immoral it is.
Tell them you're adding in additional content to the title and thus it will cost $10 more, and they'll yell it's too expensive.

There's no moral issues here, or ethical principles.

It's just people demanding stuff for free.

I agree with this post.

That's ok, you can both be wrong.

You don't do launch day DLC if you're trying to please your customers and make them feel like they are getting their money's worth. No one would have screamed if 2 months after release they charged $7 for some worthwhile DLC. But who wants to buy a new game only to find out, oops, you don't have the "latest" version, even though you Just Bought It.

No, you don't do launch day DLC if you're trying to please you. The vast majority of us could not give a fuck about when the DLC is released, which is why Dragon Age will be a huge seller, based mainly on BioWare's pedigree, and you will be left grumbling on interwebs forums.

I mean really. What if BioWare were launching two Dragon Age games at once? Would you all whine and bitch that they should've been one game for a single "standard" retail price of $50? What if BioWare had to invest twice the "standard" game budget (whatever the hell that is) for development of those two hypothetical titles?

No one is going to make you modern AAA games for free. It takes a ton of time and effort. If you want free games, you can have them, but they're going to be affairs put together by 1 to 10 passionate hobbyists and they're going to have you partying like it's 1996.

The games industry, and the business model it relies upon, has changed. Can we all get over that now?

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: Astrallite

The devs have confirmed on the Bioware forums that the game has a quest giver IN GAME that asks you "would you like to take this quest?" and if yes, you get directed to pay for the DLC. I think this is hilarious.

That IS hilarious, and probably the first genuinely bad idea described in this thread, but for reasons completely unrelated to all the bitching.

 

[brblx]

You are an idiot. I just want to be clear about that. Businesses are in business to make money.

so you use this to reason with yourself every time a business does something sleazy?

'whoops, this watch i bought is warrantied for a mere thirty days and died on day thirty-one. oh well, they are in business to make money, i'll go buy another.'

'wow, i just realized that this bose audio system i paid three grand for can be far outclassed for a quarter the cost. oh well, they've gotta make money, i'll keep it.'

'a quarter per text message? that sounds reasonable, despite the fact that the amount of bandwidth i just used would cost a fraction of a penny even on an already-overpriced data plan. oh well, they've gotta make a living.'

'hey, this shop just charged me to change a part on my car out and the problem isn't even fixed. oh well, at least they'll be able to keep their doors open.'

blind consumerism is killing this country. you, sir, are the idiot, as well a complete sucker.

edit- i will add that if you think this is a fine and dandy business practice, then that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. but that doesn't make 'businesses are in business to make money' any less asinine a comment. that's like rationalizing getting stabbed with 'well, psychopaths will do that.'

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

With the exception of the last - and even that last one depends a lot on circumstances - none of that is actually sleazy.


If it was "I bought this watch and it had a 90 day warranty, but it broke and they won't repair it", that would be sleazy.

But "I bought a watch with a 30 day warranty, and it broke 31 days later so they won't fix it"? That's you getting exactly what you actually paid for.

Your sound system is outclassed and you paid a whole bunch of money for it? You having buyer's remorse isn't the company being sleazy.

A quarter per text message, and you don't think it's fair? Don't use it. But you not liking the price doesn't make the company sleazy either.

 

[brblx]

i guess my point was that someone doesn't have to literally rip the money from your hand and kick you in the stomach for it to be 'bad business.'

bose makes money by tricking people into buying bargain basement generic speakers at studio monitor prices. you'd actually get a better deal from a con man in a white van. how is that not sleazy?

the point with the warranty thing is that many products are only designed to function until they're out of [ever-shortening] coverage.

the text message thing, you have a point- but in reality, it's the closest example to DLC i can think of. it's nickel and diming consumers in order to make money hand over fist- and as people have accepted it more and more, the costs have gotten higher and higher despite it not costing the actual business any additional money.

your definition of 'bad business' being different from mine is exactly the gist of the argument taking place in this thread. you expect most companies to bend you over, and the good ones are the exceptions. i, on the other hand, believe that a company can be upstanding and honest and still be profitable, and anyone that wants to make money through shoddy practices rather than good products can go fuck themselves.

 

[Mike Gayner]

You know the great thing about capitalism? You're free to forgo the product and talk with your wallet.

 

[brblx]

yes, that lack of $7 will surely put them out of business.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Originally posted by: brblx
yes, that lack of $7 will surely put them out of business.

Way to miss the point. You're obviously some sort of genius.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: brblx
A bunch of off-topic red-herring bullshit and this:

blind consumerism is killing this country. you, sir, are the idiot, as well a complete sucker.

You've tried to make an assumption jump here that I somehow own these products. I do not. I will evaluate them when they are available for evaluation and decide whether or not I feel they warrant the price. If I feel they do, I will buy them. This is what we've been getting at all along and your dumb ass seems unable to come to terms with.

edit- i will add that if you think this is a fine and dandy business practice, then that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. but that doesn't make 'businesses are in business to make money' any less asinine a comment. that's like rationalizing getting stabbed with 'well, psychopaths will do that.'

They WILL do that. Why the fuck were you hanging around a psychopath with a knife? Your "arguments" are some of the best entertainment I've had in a long time.

Originally posted by: brblx
i guess my point was that someone doesn't have to literally rip the money from your hand and kick you in the stomach for it to be 'bad business.'

You still haven't described what's "bad" about it, other than you not liking it.

bose makes money by tricking people into buying bargain basement generic speakers at studio monitor prices. you'd actually get a better deal from a con man in a white van. how is that not sleazy?

You act like their product isn't sold in stores right next to the competition. They don't trick anyone into anything - they offer a product, and you as a consumer have the burden to research your purchase and compare the offered product to the competition. If you didn't, that's your fault, and there's a P.T. Barnum quote somewhere about a fool and his money.

Weren't you just ranting about blind consumerism? Advertisements fool people. Bose just sells mediocre speakers and image.

the point with the warranty thing is that many products are only designed to function until they're out of [ever-shortening] coverage.

Can you name some examples?

the text message thing, you have a point- but in reality, it's the closest example to DLC i can think of. it's nickel and diming consumers in order to make money hand over fist- and as people have accepted it more and more, the costs have gotten higher and higher despite it not costing the actual business any additional money.

Which shows that the populace considers the price fair de facto. If they didn't, they wouldn't pay for the service. The fact is, $0.25 is apparently cheap enough for text usage for the majority of consumers that they do not find the practice upsetting. Profit margin does not have to be related to cost of service/product.

Lets say my cost to produce and sell a product is 1 cent and it sells for a nickel. I have made 400% profit. Am I a crook?

Let's say you just bought a coke from McDonald's sometime in the past week. You do realize the profit margin on soft-drinks at fast food chains is in the tens-of-thousands of percentages, right? Are they crooks yet?

Once again here is how capitalism works:

Product/Service is offered for $x. Sometimes $x is negotiable, sometimes it isn't.

The consumer is either willing or unwilling to exchange $x for product or service, and either finds an alternative or goes without.

Look ma! I'm teaching third grade!

your definition of 'bad business' being different from mine is exactly the gist of the argument taking place in this thread. you expect most companies to bend you over, and the good ones are the exceptions. i, on the other hand, believe that a company can be upstanding and honest and still be profitable, and anyone that wants to make money through shoddy practices rather than good products can go fuck themselves.

You have yet to demonstrate how any of these companies is not honest and upstanding. Your argument seems to be "if these companies were honest and upstanding, idiots wouldn't get screwed". I reject your claim - bad things happen to idiots all the time, and it's usually the idiot's own fault.

I don't buy products I don't want or think are a bad value. Do you?

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: brblx

You are an idiot. I just want to be clear about that. Businesses are in business to make money.

so you use this to reason with yourself every time a business does something sleazy?

'whoops, this watch i bought is warrantied for a mere thirty days and died on day thirty-one. oh well, they are in business to make money, i'll go buy another.'

'wow, i just realized that this bose audio system i paid three grand for can be far outclassed for a quarter the cost. oh well, they've gotta make money, i'll keep it.'

'a quarter per text message? that sounds reasonable, despite the fact that the amount of bandwidth i just used would cost a fraction of a penny even on an already-overpriced data plan. oh well, they've gotta make a living.'

'hey, this shop just charged me to change a part on my car out and the problem isn't even fixed. oh well, at least they'll be able to keep their doors open.'

blind consumerism is killing this country. you, sir, are the idiot, as well a complete sucker.

edit- i will add that if you think this is a fine and dandy business practice, then that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. but that doesn't make 'businesses are in business to make money' any less asinine a comment. that's like rationalizing getting stabbed with 'well, psychopaths will do that.'

You provide some decent entertainment, I will give you that. Do you offer an pdlc, I would be willing to subscribe to your off-point rambling.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Amazon roped me in with the PC version at $37 ($47 with $10 credit). At that price I can buy the sleazy DLC if it isn't a ripoff, or spend the money on something else.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Microsoft is about to release Windows 7 in several SKUs, including Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. But the software for Ultimate version already exists! They should be giving EVERYONE who pays for Home Premium the Ultimate edition, because they software has been completed. How dare they charge extra for Ultimate, it would be trivial for them to include the Ultimate features on any version of Windows 7.

See how fucking absurd this argument is?

 

[Gothgar]

wow, that is fucked

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Microsoft is about to release Windows 7 in several SKUs, including Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. But the software for Ultimate version already exists! They should be giving EVERYONE who pays for Home Premium the Ultimate edition, because they software has been completed. How dare they charge extra for Ultimate, it would be trivial for them to include the Ultimate features on any version of Windows 7.

See how fucking absurd this argument is?

DA : O Collector's Edition is Windows Ultimate, why is it missing the DLC?

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Microsoft is about to release Windows 7 in several SKUs, including Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. But the software for Ultimate version already exists! They should be giving EVERYONE who pays for Home Premium the Ultimate edition, because they software has been completed. How dare they charge extra for Ultimate, it would be trivial for them to include the Ultimate features on any version of Windows 7.

See how fucking absurd this argument is?

DA : O Collector's Edition is Windows Ultimate, why is it missing the DLC?

It's an analogy, don't over stretch it. The argument that the anti-DRM crowd is making is that the content already exists so it should be included in the product. Why? You make a decision whether or not to purchase the game like any other game - is there enough content and is the content high enough quality for me to purchase the title?

The fact that some other content exists separately shouldn't be of any concern in that equation, the only time that should concern you is when you're doing the same cost/benefit analysis regarding whether or not to purchase the DLC.

No, you're not entitled to content just because it exists, stop whining.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Microsoft is about to release Windows 7 in several SKUs, including Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. But the software for Ultimate version already exists! They should be giving EVERYONE who pays for Home Premium the Ultimate edition, because they software has been completed. How dare they charge extra for Ultimate, it would be trivial for them to include the Ultimate features on any version of Windows 7.

See how fucking absurd this argument is?

DA : O Collector's Edition is Windows Ultimate, why is it missing the DLC?

The digital version does have it. (Because it's missing the map, tin box, and other physical goodies.)

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Mike Gayner

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Ah, gamers. Tell them you're offering optional additional content alongside the launch for $10, and they'll scream how immoral it is.
Tell them you're adding in additional content to the title and thus it will cost $10 more, and they'll yell it's too expensive.

There's no moral issues here, or ethical principles.

It's just people demanding stuff for free.

I agree with this post.

That's ok, you can both be wrong.

You don't do launch day DLC if you're trying to please your customers and make them feel like they are getting their money's worth. No one would have screamed if 2 months after release they charged $7 for some worthwhile DLC. But who wants to buy a new game only to find out, oops, you don't have the "latest" version, even though you Just Bought It.

No, you don't do launch day DLC if you're trying to please you. The vast majority of us could not give a fuck about when the DLC is released, which is why Dragon Age will be a huge seller, based mainly on BioWare's pedigree, and you will be left grumbling on interwebs forums.

I mean really. What if BioWare were launching two Dragon Age games at once? Would you all whine and bitch that they should've been one game for a single "standard" retail price of $50? What if BioWare had to invest twice the "standard" game budget (whatever the hell that is) for development of those two hypothetical titles?

No one is going to make you modern AAA games for free. It takes a ton of time and effort. If you want free games, you can have them, but they're going to be affairs put together by 1 to 10 passionate hobbyists and they're going to have you partying like it's 1996.

The games industry, and the business model it relies upon, has changed. Can we all get over that now?

Amazing you could fit all that straw into one man.

Ticking off customers makes them not want to give you money. In an industry where you are trying to generate customer loyalty and induce people to buy your product when a free, albeit illicity, alternative exists, you don't pull stunts like this. If you want to sell more copies, throw in the DLC for free for the first week DA goes on sale, and charge for it thereafter. Or include it in the "Collector's Edition" which always costs more anyway. As presented, it's saying to your most excited customers who go for the pre-order or launch day release "your $50 gets you the game, but not all of it. To get everything, you gotta pay more." It's simply about perception, and this is clumsy execution. Far Cry 2 offered in game missions only accessible to those who pre-ordered. That's the way you go about this.

 

[JoshGuru7]

This debate would not exist if Bioware was releasing a Collector's Edition for $7 more with a figurine and a map instead of the DLC. Nobody on these forums truly believes that digital content is automatically less valuable than a figurine by virtue of being digital. Why are we debating this?

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: jonks
Ticking off customers makes them not want to give you money.

You still don't get it. They didn't tick off any customers. They just ticked off you. The rest of us are still buying.

In an industry where you are trying to generate customer loyalty and induce people to buy your product when a free, albeit illicity, alternative exists, you don't pull stunts like this.

Perhaps you should go give BioWare business advice. I hear they're barely scraping by :roll:

If you want to sell more copies,

To you...

throw in the DLC for free for the first week DA goes on sale,

Then give you free stuff. Phatose was right. This is just about people like you demanding stuff for free.

and charge for it thereafter.

That wouldn't work because people like you would then bitch about BioWare charging for "what they used to provide free". Or because you were on vacation during the free-for-a-week announcement and missed it.

Face it: They can't satisfy you because you apparently thinking paying for things is some grave crime committed against you.

As presented, it's saying to your most excited customers who go for the pre-order or launch day release "your $50 gets you the game, but not all of it. To get everything, you gotta pay more."

Who the hell are you to decide what is "all" of the game? Was Neverwinter Nights only part of a game because the expansion packs weren't free later? Was it incomplete because user-generated content from the toolset wasn't available out of the box.

$50, or whatever you pay for the game, gets you all of the game. What it doesn't get you is an add-on to the game as well as all of the game. Which is hardly fucking surprising when you think about it.

Of course you have to pay more to get everything. The position you're taking is that car companies are assholes for not giving you the V8 engine when you purchase the V6 trim. I mean, they have it, it's done, they could just as easily drop it in there, but you have to pay extra. What the hell?!?!?

Have you ever lived in the real world?

Originally posted by: JoshGuru7
Why are we debating this?

Because some people are really god damned stupid, that's why.

 

[alcoholbob]

What ticks me off is the EFFORT it requires to get complete Day 1 content. Unfortunately if Bioware charged $100 for an "elite edition" they'd probably get insanely bad press, so they are making us work harder just to get the full experience on day 1.

 

[Glitchny]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: jonks
Ticking off customers makes them not want to give you money.

You still don't get it. They didn't tick off any customers. They just ticked off you. The rest of us are still buying.

In an industry where you are trying to generate customer loyalty and induce people to buy your product when a free, albeit illicity, alternative exists, you don't pull stunts like this.

Perhaps you should go give BioWare business advice. I hear they're barely scraping by :roll:

If you want to sell more copies,

To you...

throw in the DLC for free for the first week DA goes on sale,

Then give you free stuff. Phatose was right. This is just about people like you demanding stuff for free.

and charge for it thereafter.

That wouldn't work because people like you would then bitch about BioWare charging for "what they used to provide free". Or because you were on vacation during the free-for-a-week announcement and missed it.

Face it: They can't satisfy you because you apparently thinking paying for things is some grave crime committed against you.

As presented, it's saying to your most excited customers who go for the pre-order or launch day release "your $50 gets you the game, but not all of it. To get everything, you gotta pay more."

Who the hell are you to decide what is "all" of the game? Was Neverwinter Nights only part of a game because the expansion packs weren't free later? Was it incomplete because user-generated content from the toolset wasn't available out of the box.

$50, or whatever you pay for the game, gets you all of the game. What it doesn't get you is an add-on to the game as well as all of the game. Which is hardly fucking surprising when you think about it.

Of course you have to pay more to get everything. The position you're taking is that car companies are assholes for not giving you the V8 engine when you purchase the V6 trim. I mean, they have it, it's done, they could just as easily drop it in there, but you have to pay extra. What the hell?!?!?

Have you ever lived in the real world?

Originally posted by: JoshGuru7
Why are we debating this?

Because some people are really god damned stupid, that's why.

ja you have way more patience than I do dealing with this argument. For the record I agree with you but this wont end, they will continue to whine about not getting free content.

The way I see it, Bioware is selling Dragon Age for $50 because they feel it has enough content to be worth it, I'm inclined to agree.

I also agree that nobody is really getting upset about this, except for a few random self entitled pc gamers on a forum. I'm sure Bioware is real concerned about their image. Hell I bet most fans will buy the game and then be like "Oh sweet they already have DLC" and they will love it.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: Glitchny


ja you have way more patience than I do dealing with this argument. For the record I agree with you but this wont end, they will continue to whine about not getting free content.

The way I see it, Bioware is selling Dragon Age for $50 because they feel it has enough content to be worth it, I'm inclined to agree.

I also agree that nobody is really getting upset about this, except for a few random self entitled pc gamers on a forum. I'm sure Bioware is real concerned about their image. Hell I bet most fans will buy the game and then be like "Oh sweet they already have DLC" and they will love it.

It's not really patience. I just like yelling at dumb people.