BG2 is certainly the pinnacle of PC RPG length. That said, most of Bioware games have not been particularly long, so there's no conclusive proof that this game will be any longer than any of the other ~15 hour RPGs they've been churning out the last decade. And this is coming from a huge Bioware homer. Bioware has been built this huge mystique and there are way too many apologists out there.
Who cares? Buy it if you want. Don't if you don't.
It's not like paid DLC is some new invention. Expansion packs have been around forever. They just used to make them longer and box them because that was the most profitable method of distribution. It isn't any more.
I fail to see how anyone is confused?
How many expansion packs were released on the LAUNCH DAY of the original game?
Oh, that's right...NONE.
Did you even bother to read the thread? :roll:
The apologists will justify anything...including blatant, unapologetic money-grabbing. It is truly mind-boggling.
Would you guys be as outragned if instead of the content team being switched over to PDLC and finishing that up they were switched to developing a "conventional" expansion. The news released is that they finished up enough expansion content but are going to release the xpac with or soon after the main game's release for $35?
A few people keep harping on how developers didn't do PDLC 10 years ago. Well that's because 10 years ago technology wasn't quite mature enough nor had broadband saturated the market far enough to make it a viable option. It was better to work 1-1.5 years on content that extended the game 30-60% more and cost $30-40. Now instead of releasing all that content at once they can do it steadily every couple months. They can segment what type of DLC you're actually receiving. If you don't want new units in your game then don't buy the EXTREME UNIT UPGRADE PACK. Don't care about how your characters look then the SUPER SKIN CUSTOMIZATION COMBO is not for you. Oh you like exploring new areas of the game world then you should probably get the NEW GENERIC MISSION TO QUEST UNCHARTED LAND immediately.
Support the companies who's practices you appreciate. Don't buy from the ones you feel are cheating you for your dollar's value. It's the only way they'll understand because ultimately, game development studios are businesses and in it to make money. I just don't see such a case going on here unless I put on a tinfoil cap.
A few people keep harping on how developers didn't do PDLC 10 years ago. Well that's because 10 years ago technology wasn't quite mature enough nor had broadband saturated the market far enough to make it a viable option. It was better to work 1-1.5 years on content that extended the game 30-60% more and cost $30-40. Now instead of releasing all that content at once they can do it steadily every couple months. They can segment what type of DLC you're actually receiving. If you don't want new units in your game then don't buy the EXTREME UNIT UPGRADE PACK. Don't care about how your characters look then the SUPER SKIN CUSTOMIZATION COMBO is not for you. Oh you like exploring new areas of the game world then you should probably get the NEW GENERIC MISSION TO QUEST UNCHARTED LAND immediately.
Support the companies who's practices you appreciate. Don't buy from the ones you feel are cheating you for your dollar's value. It's the only way they'll understand because ultimately, game development studios are businesses and in it to make money. I just don't see such a case going on here unless I put on a tinfoil cap.
Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
How many expansion packs were released on the LAUNCH DAY of the original game?
Oh, that's right...NONE.
Did you even bother to read the thread? :roll:
The apologists will justify anything...including blatant, unapologetic money-grabbing. It is truly mind-boggling.
Everyone seems to forget Bioware is a business, and game development is costly. Bioware doesn't make a profit by writing checks. It's not as though taking advantage of DLC is against business ethics. Sure, the timing is shady, but they're not preventing you from playing DA. If you don't like it, don't buy and register your complaint with them. I don't really care if they have DLC or not, I'm in such desperate need for a good single player game that isn't some crappy Diablo clone that I'm really only interested in the retail release. If it's great, maybe I'll download a pack or two afterwards. But I'm not ready to run off to Consumer Affairs to report this travesty.
Qbah
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2005
- 3,754
- 10
- 81
It does bother me - day one DLC. They should've waited like a month and nobody would say a word.
Then again, I wonder how long it is? Bring Down the Sky was like 1.5h tops - 400MSP. Pinnacle Station is a bit more - 400MSP again. Those two aren't worth it imho - but I did buy them nonetheless - it expands a bit on a universe I enjoy playing. Mentioning it to include recent DLC for a Bioware game
Then again, I wonder how long it is? Bring Down the Sky was like 1.5h tops - 400MSP. Pinnacle Station is a bit more - 400MSP again. Those two aren't worth it imho - but I did buy them nonetheless - it expands a bit on a universe I enjoy playing. Mentioning it to include recent DLC for a Bioware game
If Warden's Keep is as content-free as Pinnacle Station, *I'll* be the one leading the complaints.
Btw, it won't be on the disc waiting to be unlocked -- it's not finished yet.
Btw, it won't be on the disc waiting to be unlocked -- it's not finished yet.
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
- 81
Ah, gamers. Tell them you're offering optional additional content alongside the launch for $10, and they'll scream how immoral it is.
Tell them you're adding in additional content to the title and thus it will cost $10 more, and they'll yell it's too expensive.
There's no moral issues here, or ethical principles.
It's just people demanding stuff for free.
Tell them you're adding in additional content to the title and thus it will cost $10 more, and they'll yell it's too expensive.
There's no moral issues here, or ethical principles.
It's just people demanding stuff for free.
What is up with people who defend corporations and their business practices to the death?
This same crap happened when Bioshock brought the limited-install DRM issue to the forefront.
Gamers with legitimate concerns and complaints were shouted down over and over by coporate shills telling them their concerns were not legitimate and that they should just shut up and take it.
It's not hard to figure out where this slippery slope leads (and IMO this is worse than limited installs): In the end, no complex game will be released in a complete state. DLC will become mandatory for finishing games.
If we wait until then to complain loudly it'll be too late.
Mike Gayner
Diamond Member
- Jan 5, 2007
- 6,175
- 3
- 0
Correction - people are complaining they should get the full game + extra content developed as PDLC for retail price.
Railing on about the concept of PDLC and companies that incorporate it as part of their business model is a different discussion. For the record, I've only ever bought one thing from XBox Live and that was a guitar hero pack I wanted for a few good songs.
PhatoseAlpha
Platinum Member
- Apr 10, 2005
- 2,131
- 21
- 81
No, that's not what they're doing either.
What they're doing is complaining that they think they should get the DLC and the full game at retail cost.
You don't get to redefine the concept of 'full game' for your own financial advantage, then claim it's some moral imperative.
Slippery slopes? Oh, yes, indeed. Let's go with the car example that came up. You pay full price for a car - and then get mad cause you didn't an undercoating. And you didn't get a moonroof. And you didn't get an in-dash navigation system. And you didn't get a 500W digital stereo system. And you didn't get gold plated rimcaps. And you didn't get a supermodel to suck you off while you're driving.
How DARE they provide only what they're actually selling you, clearly and concisely, for what you paid? Gold plated rimcaps and supermodel BJs are undeniably part of the new car experience!!!!
Face it, this ain't some magical moral slippery slope, and it ain't some corporate conspiracy to sell you what you already paid for. It's the corporations clearly and concisely letting you know what the price is, and what you get for that price, and gamers getting all sanctimonious as if this was something other then the market functioning exactly as it's supposed to.
Don't like it? Fine, don't buy it.
But spare us all the self righteous rigmarole. Arguing over pricing doesn't make you a martyr.
VashHT
Diamond Member
- Feb 1, 2007
- 3,269
- 1,276
- 136
I won't buy it, ntm where did I ever say it was a moral issue? I simply think it's a stupid BUSINESS idea, and forgive me for trying to have a discussion about it on a public forum. You can say all you want that people are redefining what a full game is, but they are setting a new precedent by selling additional content alongside a full game the day it is released. Can you at least admit they COULD add it into the release game if they wanted to?
I would absolutely NEVER do this if I was in the business of making games, especially a game that is practically ensured profit without charging for additional content. I will buy DA, I won't buy the DLC, I have never bought DLC and I never will. I think it's a stupid business idea to piss off a portion of your customers just to make extra money off of the ones who are willing to accept your idea, and that's all I'm saying.
Chriscross3234
Senior member
- Jun 4, 2006
- 756
- 1
- 0
The crux of the matter is that game companies/developers are taking a new turn in the way they release post-production content. PC gamers are used to "expansions", when the new model seems to be "DLC", and this is what most of us have a problem with, especially if it is a day one release. Expansions add a substantial amount of content that usually continues a major chunk of storyline, however, most DLC (from what I've seen, especially Fallout 3) adds little incoherent nuggets of content that usually have nothing to do with each other.
Like any other game, I'll most likely wait to see how the reviews of DA before I purchase it and I might just wait until it drops in price. I will definitely not be buying DLC for DA, especially after witnessing the horrible DLC made for Mass Effect.
Like any other game, I'll most likely wait to see how the reviews of DA before I purchase it and I might just wait until it drops in price. I will definitely not be buying DLC for DA, especially after witnessing the horrible DLC made for Mass Effect.
Wouldn't this DLC have been more timely if the game had not been delayed for the console version? I'd rather blame it on the consolitis, well, just because I like to blame consolitis for most everything... ;-)
I am not fond of DLC, as I agree that most companies that offer it skimp on the content. I remember 'Horse Armor' for $5. It becomes a cash calf for the companies, as they can do a smaller amount of work on a delivered platform for X amount of money. I am sure their accountants have the percentages down on how many will buy it regardless of what it is. Gravy Train!
Probably would have been a better idea to sit on this for a couple of months, 'refining' it, then putting it out. But EA is not noted for that sort of thinking.
I am not fond of DLC, as I agree that most companies that offer it skimp on the content. I remember 'Horse Armor' for $5. It becomes a cash calf for the companies, as they can do a smaller amount of work on a delivered platform for X amount of money. I am sure their accountants have the percentages down on how many will buy it regardless of what it is. Gravy Train!
Probably would have been a better idea to sit on this for a couple of months, 'refining' it, then putting it out. But EA is not noted for that sort of thinking.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
That's ok, you can both be wrong.
You don't do launch day DLC if you're trying to please your customers and make them feel like they are getting their money's worth. No one would have screamed if 2 months after release they charged $7 for some worthwhile DLC. But who wants to buy a new game only to find out, oops, you don't have the "latest" version, even though you Just Bought It.
Who said anything about this not being the latest version? You still get the full game. What you don't get, however, is completely supplemental material that was never intended to be included with the full game. It's EXTRA. It's not required.
If you have some moral objection to paying for downloaded extra content, then don't buy it. It doesn't mean you're getting screwed out of content. If you didn't pay for it, you'd never get it...whether it was released the day of launch or two years after launch. If you don't want the extra, unneeded, supplemental content, then don't buy it.
The game itself, however, will still be the same, and will still be exactly what they've advertised it to be for the last year-plus.
The devs have confirmed on the Bioware forums that the game has a quest giver IN GAME that asks you "would you like to take this quest?" and if yes, you get directed to pay for the DLC. I think this is hilarious.
As far as supplemental, I think this is an issue of semantics and public perception. You claim intention. So? All the side quests in the game could be removed and quest givers littered everywhere would direct you to the DLC page if you want to initiate a quest. It's not planned to be in the game as you say?--that's saying absolutely nothing. Maybe I never planned to sell the 4th wheel in my car, and I include that as supplemental material. Your intention changes nothing that the behavior leaves a bad taste in the consumer's mouth.
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