Draft Question

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Even more funny is that only about 10% of the US armed fighting forces are in Iraq? And some people say that we are stretched too thin. 13 of more than 67 battalions of army and marine soldiers are in the ME (with guards and reserves). Two of them are in Kuwait as well as another two in Afghanistan and another one in Kasikstan/bordering nations. Leaving drumroll... eight in Iraq.

My god, eight out of 67 battalions are in Iraq. We need a draft NOW. I can't believe that we can continue this fight with only 90% percent of our forces free. How are we ever going to make it.

We might as well surrendur when we hit the 11% mark - I mean that must mean we will be stretched reaaaaaaaaaaly thin.



Another reason to ignore the media and their lame attempts at defeating the American military - again.

Just because those extra batallions are not actively engaged in combat does not necessarily mean they are "free" or available. Many of them are keeping the peace in other unstable places where their absence could lead to more war.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: piasabird
First things first. The military guy that does the briefings for the pentagon says we have trained 100 Iraqi Battalions and they will have close to 200,000 troops of their own by December 2005. There is no reason for a draft. We have plenty of toops stationed overseas that we could move if we had to. In Fact the reason why we are increasing our enlistment goals is that we have plans for enlarging the armed forces. The pentagon says retention is really high right now.

Could you so politely provide some links to back that information up?? Cuz I keep up on the war I havent heard about the 200,000 trained Iraqi soldiers...last I heard they were fighting just to keep morale up because the insurgents are targeting them more and more, and also I'm interested if when the US Govt says those numbers it includes police officiers....just a thought

Last I heard most of these so called trained Iraqi security forces were more qualified as Olympic calibre sprinters.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Guess you just have a very religious-oriented perspective... not uncommon for those that fear the Christian boogeyman. BTW, I'm not religious in the least.

You know what else you're not?

You're not in Iraq! If you believe in this war so much go and enlist - the military desperately needs new people.

But that's pretty stupid. You don't have to be 100% directly involved in whatever you support.

No, it's not. We're not talking recreational chess here - we're talking war. There are good, decent Americans who are getting shot at and blown up in Iraq. Our military needs new people desperately.

Sure, it's easy to sit here and enjoy fantasies of American empire when you get to go send other people's children off to die.

War is a Saturday night poker game with a $5 ante, not a last resort. If you really support it then you better be damn willing to serve and not hide behind your keyboard while other people duck bullets.

Fixed, from Bush's P.O.V.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

You are kidding right? At least without a draft the poorer people still have a fighting chance at not being shipped off to die in some desert.

I don't think there is ANY way the public at large would EVER get behind a draft while Iraq is going on. But then again, I never in my wildest dreams imagined these same people would reelect Bush either. So anything is possible I guess. I am not willing to die for a country full of idiots who voted for George W. Bush. TWICE! (Although the first time was kinda iffy)

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

You are kidding right? At least without a draft the poorer people still have a fighting chance at not being shipped off to die in some desert.

I'm serious about supporting a draft. Let the US be represented overseas by a represenitive cross-section of America. It would end up with less of the poor people having to go to the army and open up jobs/college for them in the US.

That is good if your are "really" concerned about the poor people having a "fighting chance. Of course, if your rationalizing about how your doing them a favor by letting them do all the fighting, you probably disagree.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

You are kidding right? At least without a draft the poorer people still have a fighting chance at not being shipped off to die in some desert.

I'm serious about supporting a draft. Let the US be represented overseas by a represenitive cross-section of America. It would end up with less of the poor people having to go to the army and open up jobs/college for them in the US.

That is good if your are "really" concerned about the poor people having a "fighting chance. Of course, if your rationalizing about how your doing them a favor by letting them do all the fighting, you probably disagree.

Well I guess I am just under the assumption that the draft system, like any other system, can and will be corrupted by money. Those who are able to buy their way out of it will do so, while those who can't will go to the front line. At least now, they can stand up to a recruiter without being thrown in the brig. I have 0 confidence that the draft system would be fair and just. It would be about as jury-rigged as the first election that got Bush into office in the first place.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

A military comprised of individuals forced to serve makes for a very "interesting" military.

However, it makes sense that liberals want to force people to act rather than allowing freedom of choice.

The same situation is unfolding in trying to save the social "security" system. The only plan (other than to raise taxes, postpone and reduce benefits) offered by the democrats is similar to the conservative plan. The major difference is that the democrats would FORCE individuals to particpate in the privitized plan rather than the conservative plan which ALLOWS, but does not force, the same action.

Force != Freedom

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Our country is worth defending, but there is no war of denfense going on, just more lies for greed.

Shhh... don't tell the Republicans that. They're convinced every non-Christian is out to get them.

You have a lot of credibility thinking those that support the Battle of Iraq do so for religious reasons. You're just brimming with common sense.

IRL, every Republican I know goes on and on about "Muslim terrorists" or "Muslims" or some other anti-Muslim diatribe when referring to the situation in the Middle East. Then they go on to blame "non-Christian influences" for all the problems in America. Just my exprience. Maybe I'm not as accurate as a FoxNews poll, but my county is fairly red...

Guess you just have a very religious-oriented perspective... not uncommon for those that fear the Christian boogeyman. BTW, I'm not religious in the least.

That doesn't matter. You elected and continue to support a religion based, war-mongering, right- wing administration. Just as the misguided Gays who helped re-elect Bush continue to see their rights eroded by the very man they helped re-elect, you may come to regret your decision to support him.
btw, you cannot possibly believe that Bush's economic policies are conservative in any way. I assume that's the issue you went for while holding your nose in the voting booth.

 

[imported_Stratago]

I think I may have come off wrong:

Any war that we start for reasons i don't agree to = not worth fighting for.

I'm not going to risk my life for this administration. I am almost looking forward to when the US loses its ultimate power mindset, sounds strangely like the Sith, lol, but anyway and starts listening to the people/other countries in the world. America should never act unilatterally, and neither should the administration. Fvck going to war for Bush.

 

[Jediab]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
It's a technique that was common when your worldviews were. You know, drill a hole in the skull to release the demons.

HA! Zing!

Yep you make me laugh like I knew you would. Typical Socialists manuver.

Thanks!

 

[Praetorian7]

Originally posted by: piasabird
First things first. The military guy that does the briefings for the pentagon says we have trained 100 Iraqi Battalions and they will have close to 200,000 troops of their own by December 2005.

i've seen these guys in action, worked with em, and helped "train" them.....out of the 200,000 maybe 1000 of them would make good soldiers by our standards....they are in no way ready to help maintain the peace, enforce the law, or defend their country.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: piasabird
First things first. The military guy that does the briefings for the pentagon says we have trained 100 Iraqi Battalions and they will have close to 200,000 troops of their own by December 2005. There is no reason for a draft. We have plenty of toops stationed overseas that we could move if we had to. In Fact the reason why we are increasing our enlistment goals is that we have plans for enlarging the armed forces. The pentagon says retention is really high right now.

Could you so politely provide some links to back that information up?? Cuz I keep up on the war I havent heard about the 200,000 trained Iraqi soldiers...last I heard they were fighting just to keep morale up because the insurgents are targeting them more and more, and also I'm interested if when the US Govt says those numbers it includes police officiers....just a thought

I'll do it for him.

3/14/04 Rumsfeld on Iraq. Interview with CNN Late Edition

Q: Did you think a year after the war U.S. troops would still be dying in Iraq?

Rumsfeld: Well, if one goes back and looks at what happened in Germany, certainly at the end of a war things don't suddenly go away. Major combat stops, but resistance can continue. And it is continuing, and we are continuing to resist it, along with the Iraqis. We now have 200,000 Iraqi security forces that are out there providing security in their country, and frankly, being killed themselves. There have been more Iraqi security forces killed in the last four, five, or six months than coalition forces. And it shows that they're taking over responsibility for their country.

 

[Mokmo418]

As a Canadian...

I just can't believe some U.S. soldiers, who signed a contract with their army, are fleeing to Canada not to get sent to Iraq. That is happenning today. A soldier recently was appealing Immigration Canada's decision to send him back to the U.S., where a bunch of MPs would be waiting for him at the border.

I find draft-dodgers pathetic, but war-dodgers are even worse.

 

[Kindjal]

Originally posted by: her209
I'm all for a draft. Force the kids of the politicians into service.

I think this would cause a lot more congressional/domestic debate and perhaps even some hesitancy if everyone had to face the fact that they might loose their own son or daughter in a conflict.

The burden of service is not spread evenly across society and I think mandatory service of all eighteen-year olds - whether in the Army, Navy, Air Force or even the Peace Corps, would have a positve and binding effect on the country.

 

[ciba]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
IRL, every Democrat I know is an unemployed loser that used to work for a record store or at McDonald's.

Don't forget Starbuck's baristas!

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: piasabird
First things first. The military guy that does the briefings for the pentagon says we have trained 100 Iraqi Battalions and they will have close to 200,000 troops of their own by December 2005. There is no reason for a draft. We have plenty of toops stationed overseas that we could move if we had to. In Fact the reason why we are increasing our enlistment goals is that we have plans for enlarging the armed forces. The pentagon says retention is really high right now.

Could you so politely provide some links to back that information up?? Cuz I keep up on the war I havent heard about the 200,000 trained Iraqi soldiers...last I heard they were fighting just to keep morale up because the insurgents are targeting them more and more, and also I'm interested if when the US Govt says those numbers it includes police officiers....just a thought

I'll do it for him.

3/14/04 Rumsfeld on Iraq. Interview with CNN Late Edition

Q: Did you think a year after the war U.S. troops would still be dying in Iraq?

Rumsfeld: Well, if one goes back and looks at what happened in Germany, certainly at the end of a war things don't suddenly go away. Major combat stops, but resistance can continue. And it is continuing, and we are continuing to resist it, along with the Iraqis. We now have 200,000 Iraqi security forces that are out there providing security in their country, and frankly, being killed themselves. There have been more Iraqi security forces killed in the last four, five, or six months than coalition forces. And it shows that they're taking over responsibility for their country.

Yeah, because Rumsfeld has done such a superb job in Iraq.

He obviously knows what he is doing and any opinions to the contrary are just part of the vast left-wing conspiracy.

One of W's biggest problems is not being smart enough to surround himself with smarter people. Our disaster in Iraq is just the result of their mixture of hubris, incompetence, and promoting of loyalty over results. It's like a 6th grade popularity contest that winds up killing thousands of people.

Truly pathetic.

 

[2cpuminimum]

Originally posted by: Mokmo418
As a Canadian...

I just can't believe some U.S. soldiers, who signed a contract with their army, are fleeing to Canada not to get sent to Iraq. That is happenning today. A soldier recently was appealing Immigration Canada's decision to send him back to the U.S., where a bunch of MPs would be waiting for him at the border.

I find draft-dodgers pathetic, but war-dodgers are even worse.

When people enlisted a few years ago, they didn't anticipate the US starting a war against a country that posed no threat whatsoever to the US. They didn't expect that their role in the military would be to slaughter innocent civilians and risking death for the sake of lining the pockets of the extremely rich. The world would be a safer, better place if the entire US military had fled to canada the moment the misleader announced his unprovoked attack on the sovereign nation of Iraq. The war in iraq offers no benefit to the taxpayers. They should amend the constitution to make using the US military for personal profit count as treason.

 

[maluckey]

So you are saying that it's OK to take a handout without any responsibility for your actions, and leave your fellow buddie to die? good job!! You are a winner! Welcome to AT...you'll fit in just fine:disgust:

 

[piasabird]

Well if this War in Iraq keeps dragging on and people keep getting injured/killed you may see some changes in the future. At this point the Iraqi People have 100 Iraqi Battallions that we have helped them train. I think by this time next year we will start seeing permanent withdrawls till we only have technical advisors or maybe some diplomats left in Iraq. We can not afford to fund their country forever.

 

[piasabird]

Watch the Fox network and listen to the breifings by Rumsfeld and the Dept of Defense Military Briefer.

 

[frankie38]

A Draft is not necessary is not wanted by the military. We have a Professional Armed Services staffed by Men and Women that want to be there.

Since you do not want them and they do not want you. You dont have anything to worry about.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Our country is worth defending, but there is no war of denfense going on, just more lies for greed.

Shhh... don't tell the Republicans that. They're convinced every non-Christian is out to get them.

You have a lot of credibility thinking those that support the Battle of Iraq do so for religious reasons. You're just brimming with common sense.

IRL, every Republican I know goes on and on about "Muslim terrorists" or "Muslims" or some other anti-Muslim diatribe when referring to the situation in the Middle East. Then they go on to blame "non-Christian influences" for all the problems in America. Just my exprience. Maybe I'm not as accurate as a FoxNews poll, but my county is fairly red...

IRL, every Democrat I know is an unemployed loser that used to work for a record store or at McDonald's.

I thought you guys always were trumpeting about how this is the greatest economy in 20 years. Is 49% of the voting age population really unemployed? :roll:

You ever look at the federal tax income distribution in this country?

Here is a funny coincidence.

51% of this country voted for Bush
50% of this country pays 96% of the federal income taxes

49% voted for Kerry
50% of this country pays 4% of the federal income taxes.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice

Originally posted by: Stratago
What could happen in the near future, a plausable event, that would cause a draft? and how much time would I have to get to Canada in that case?

Well, the democrats started pushing for a draft during the last election. Recently bills have been proposed to reintroduce the draft. Black leaders are calling for the draft.

So, you could see a draft in 2008.

I think a draft is a good idea. Why should the poor people have all the fun?

You are kidding right? At least without a draft the poorer people still have a fighting chance at not being shipped off to die in some desert.

I'm serious about supporting a draft. Let the US be represented overseas by a represenitive cross-section of America. It would end up with less of the poor people having to go to the army and open up jobs/college for them in the US.

That is good if your are "really" concerned about the poor people having a "fighting chance. Of course, if your rationalizing about how your doing them a favor by letting them do all the fighting, you probably disagree.

Well I guess I am just under the assumption that the draft system, like any other system, can and will be corrupted by money. Those who are able to buy their way out of it will do so, while those who can't will go to the front line. At least now, they can stand up to a recruiter without being thrown in the brig. I have 0 confidence that the draft system would be fair and just. It would be about as jury-rigged as the first election that got Bush into office in the first place.

Money might get a few off. But elitist status (look at how President Clinton was able to dodge the draft) will almost always get them off or get them an easy and safe job or perhaps a body guard as the LA Times reported about VP Al Gore.

Of course we are so forgiving that those with money who run off to Canada will be forgiven.

Of course there are many legitimate ways to avoid front line combat.