Dr. Michael Osterholm says a temporary (up to 6 week) SIP policy is necessary to get US out of our raging problem until a vaccine arrives

[JEDIYoda]

Dr. Osterhokm has been critized as a fear monger, and he's just looking to sell his book. Just look at the Joe Rogan video he did a few months ago. People don't have a grasp on time, and many were critical of his prediction. I believe he said over 500k dead, millions hospitalized. But, here is the thing. We are still in the the grips of this pandemic. We aren't even in the middle stage yet. So, his prediction could very well be true 1-3 years from now. As he has stated this is a COVID19 winter. It's going to be with us for a long time. Wait until the fall hits. We could be in for some real issues.

BTW, states aren't shutting down. We saw what that did to the economy so that will be a non issue. Schools on the other hand? Yea. I could see virtual learning taking place all year.

why do you hate America???

 

[JEDIYoda]

haha, ain't gonna happen, cuz freedumb.

freedumb to be dumb.....

 

[Jhhnn]

I think a number of things are at work.

The internet ate the intelligence of middle aged Americans via memes on Facebook (many of your traditional even liberal antivaxxers plus now Q). Many non-white people are far more skeptical of US health policy because of long running enormous inequalities in care and how those demographics are treated within the system. Rural residents distrust the government even though it is almost entirely responsible for the viability of their lifestyles.

Fortunately we don't need everyone to get vaccinated.

I think there's also a certain element of holding back to let other people go first & be the canaries in the coal mine. At least I hope so. It's just as well, at least at first, because demand will outstrip supply & vulnerable people should be at the head of the line.

 

[ultimatebob]

What is their reasoning for not getting the vaccine? Is this comparable to flu shot participation?

I'll let someone else get the vaccine first, thanks. I'd rather let the early adopters figure out what side effects were missed because the vaccine was rushed to market.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I'll let someone else get the vaccine first, thanks. I'd rather let the early adopters figure out what side effects were missed because the vaccine was rushed to market.

With that said the Gobermint no`s ware to fine yo ass.......

 

[conehead433]

Why should you be leery of vaccines? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html
"Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found they strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines. "
I'm not really sure the statement that the vaccines were strengthened is entirely accurate. Adjuvants containing aluminum were used in vaccines because they greatly reduced the amount of the vaccine needed for a prophylactic dose.
From the NIH - "Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community".
Some years ago aluminum intake was linked to Alzheimer's so could part of the rise in cases be from vaccines or is it just because people are living longer? Hard to pin it down I'm sure. Full disclosure - I am not a anti-vaxxer. I last had a flu vaccine in 2004. The last time I had the flu was 2004. I also got a pneumonia vaccine the same year. Do note that with the flu vaccine you are increasing your chances of getting the flu. The same is true with the shingles vaccine. I probably will choose to get a Covid vaccine after it has been proven to work.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'll let someone else get the vaccine first, thanks. I'd rather let the early adopters figure out what side effects were missed because the vaccine was rushed to market.

So negative. You seem sure there will be missed side effects when that may not be true at all.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Why should you be leery of vaccines? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html
"Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found they strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines. "
I'm not really sure the statement that the vaccines were strengthened is entirely accurate. Adjuvants containing aluminum were used in vaccines because they greatly reduced the amount of the vaccine needed for a prophylactic dose.
From the NIH

I wanted to say Welcome to the forums! I don`t recall bumping into you. but your comments are very appreciated!
Stay safe!!

 

[K1052]

I'll let someone else get the vaccine first, thanks. I'd rather let the early adopters figure out what side effects were missed because the vaccine was rushed to market.

If the Brits stick their vaccine in 10K plus people, it works, and they don't kill anyone then out of my way.

 

[conehead433]

I wanted to say Welcome to the forums! I don`t recall bumping into you. but your comments are very appreciated!
Stay safe!!

Thanks! Hopefully you'll read the rest of my post. I apparently hit something on my keyboard and it posted before I had finished.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Fortunately we don't need everyone to get vaccinated.

We might need more than 2/3rds though...

 

[K1052]

We might need more than 2/3rds though...

By the time we get doses at population scale 1/3rd of the country will have immunity due to exposure. Not that this is a good thing, just likely.

 

[JEDIYoda]

By the time we get doses at population scale 1/3rd of the country will have immunity due to exposure. Not that this is a good thing, just likely.

actually that has never been proven.....in fact I recall Dr, Fauci saying there have been cases of people getting re-infected...

 

[conehead433]

By the time we get doses at population scale 1/3rd of the country will have immunity due to exposure. Not that this is a good thing, just likely.

Immunity to exposure apparently is short-lived as a number of people have been reinfected. It's also unknown at this point how long lasting any of the vaccines in production will be.

 

[K1052]

actually that has never been proven.....in fact I recall Dr, Fauci saying there have been cases of people getting re-infected...

Some anecdotal reports but nothing scientifically conclusive. If it was a common occurrence I’d have to think we would be seeing it in the early hard hit areas now and so far that’s not the case.

 

[K1052]

Immunity to exposure apparently is short-lived as a number of people have been reinfected. It's also unknown at this point how long lasting any of the vaccines in production will be.

I address this in the above post. Vaccine durability is an open question yes but if it works it’s sort of immaterial.

 

[Jhhnn]

Immunity to exposure apparently is short-lived as a number of people have been reinfected. It's also unknown at this point how long lasting any of the vaccines in production will be.

That's been extremely rare if true at all.

 

[Paratus]

Why should you be leery of vaccines? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html
"Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found they strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines. "
I'm not really sure the statement that the vaccines were strengthened is entirely accurate. Adjuvants containing aluminum were used in vaccines because they greatly reduced the amount of the vaccine needed for a prophylactic dose.
From the NIH - "Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community".
Some years ago aluminum intake was linked to Alzheimer's so could part of the rise in cases be from vaccines or is it just because people are living longer? Hard to pin it down I'm sure. Full disclosure - I am not a anti-vaxxer. I last had a flu vaccine in 2004. The last time I had the flu was 2004. I also got a pneumonia vaccine the same year. Do note that with the flu vaccine you are increasing your chances of getting the flu. The same is true with the shingles vaccine. I probably will choose to get a Covid vaccine after it has been proven to work.

Edit grabbed wrong link
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/misconceptions.htm

While you say you are not an anti-vaxxer your post lends me to believe your at least a vaccine skeptic.

Flu vaccines increasing the risk of flu is a misconception not supported by evidence


Second you’ve link to a study done byL Tomljenovic:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21568886/
They’ve had two papers on aluminu adjuvants retracted.

The paper, about the effects of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines on the immune response in the brains of mice, is the second retraction for co-authors Christopher Shaw and Lucija Tomljenovic, of the University of British Columbia. The journal’s editor told us he and the authors are jointly retracting the paper.

Just over a month old, the paper has already received plenty of criticism. Numerous commenters on PubPeer have allegedly identified image duplications and other problems with the paper. One commenter described “clear and deliberate” removal of control results in the paper, while others suggested gel bands were duplicated within the paper, and appear similar to those from another paper published in 2014 by Shaw and Tomljenovic. In a blog post, David Gorski, a professor and surgeon at Wayne State University, called the paper “antivaccine pseudoscience.”
https://retractionwatch.com/2017/10/09/journal-retract-paper-called-anti-vaccine-pseudoscience/

Do you care to share why you are skeptical of vaccines?

 

[eelw]

Yeah I’m not going to be a guinea pig for a rushed vaccine. I’m also skeptic of the one Canada is working with a China company. Right now, only the UK one I’d trust if released this year

 

[JEDIYoda]

interesting....

Research Indicates COVID-19 Immunity Could Be Short-Lived

 

[Meghan54]

Some years ago aluminum intake was linked to Alzheimer's so could part of the rise in cases be from vaccines or is it just because people are living longer? Hard to pin it down I'm sure. Full disclosure - I am not a anti-vaxxer. I last had a flu vaccine in 2004. The last time I had the flu was 2004. I also got a pneumonia vaccine the same year. Do note that with the flu vaccine you are increasing your chances of getting the flu.

Sure you’re an anti-vaxxer. Just the fact you have to declare it shows the truth.
And there’s never been a link between Alzheimer’s and alu. All research in trying to find such a link has largely been long abandoned.

 

[ultimatebob]

Some anecdotal reports but nothing scientifically conclusive. If it was a common occurrence I’d have to think we would be seeing it in the early hard hit areas now and so far that’s not the case.

I don't think that the government would advertise that you cannot catch COVID-19 a second time even if it was true right now. "Oh, I already had it" seems like something that would become a popular excuse for people who do not want to wear masks or social distance.

 

[nickqt]

This country and its culture do not have the politcal will, personal will, or societal will, to do what is necessary.

This is the new normal, and it's not even all that bad, compared to what it could be during the flu season.

40+ years of "government is the problem", "rugged individualism" conservatism has made selfishness the new US Patriotism.

 

[esquared]

Why should you be leery of vaccines? https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/adjuvants.html
"Aluminum salts, such as aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, and aluminum potassium sulfate have been used safely in vaccines for more than 70 years. Aluminum salts were initially used in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s with diphtheria and tetanus vaccines after it was found they strengthened the body’s immune response to these vaccines. "
I'm not really sure the statement that the vaccines were strengthened is entirely accurate. Adjuvants containing aluminum were used in vaccines because they greatly reduced the amount of the vaccine needed for a prophylactic dose.
From the NIH - "Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community".
Some years ago aluminum intake was linked to Alzheimer's so could part of the rise in cases be from vaccines or is it just because people are living longer? Hard to pin it down I'm sure. Full disclosure - I am not a anti-vaxxer. I last had a flu vaccine in 2004. The last time I had the flu was 2004. I also got a pneumonia vaccine the same year. Do note that with the flu vaccine you are increasing your chances of getting the flu. The same is true with the shingles vaccine. I probably will choose to get a Covid vaccine after it has been proven to work.

That quote you said is from the NIH is not. Its an abstract written by the Ophthalmology Dept in the Univ of British Columbia

Aluminum vaccine adjuvants: are they safe? - PubMed

Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And a higher chance of getting flu if you had the vaccine?
Ha ha ha ha. No, no and no.
These are falsehoods and you and whatever group you belong to need to stop peddling that nonsense.
Your anecdotal evidence of you not getting the flu since you stopped getting vaccines?
I have had a flu shot every year since 2000 and I have not gotten the flu.
Same with the shingles vaccine.
The older version, Zostax prevented shingles in 51% of people getting the vaccine.

Shingles Zostavax Vaccination | What You Should Know | CDC

People 60 years of age or older should get shingles vaccine. Studies show that more than 99% of Americans aged 40 and older have had chickenpox, and shingles is cause by the same virus as chickenpox.

www.cdc.gov

The newer Shingrix has a 90-97% effectiveness at preventing shingles. It is 2 shots 4-6 months apart

Shingles Vaccine: Should I Get It?

Are you at risk for shingles? WebMD explains when and why you should get the shingles vaccine.

www.webmd.com

What this does say is that the shingles vaccine will not protect everybody, just most of them that receive a shot(s). You can get shingles
after getting the vaccine.
Same goes for the flu. You can get the flu after a shot. But getting either of these does not enhance your odds of getting flu or shingles.

Misconceptions about Flu Vaccines

Read more on common misconceptions about seasonal flu and flu vaccines effectiveness.

www.cdc.gov

Shingles Myths and Facts

Information debunking common myths about shingles

www.nfid.org

 

[K1052]

I don't think that the government would advertise that you cannot catch COVID-19 a second time even if it was true right now. "Oh, I already had it" seems like something that would become a popular excuse for people who do not want to wear masks or social distance.

We would have seen credible reports out of other hard hit places outside the US. Reinfection is a possibility but it seems unlikely it is by any stretch a common occurrence. Until firm research is presented that its a major concern I am skeptical.