Dow tumbles more than 800 points. How ugly will this get?

[VRAMdemon]

Dopey Donald flies into a panic as the stock market belly-flops:

Dipshit in Chief and Trump Slump Creator: -

"The Fed has got to do something! The Fed is the Central Bank of the United States, not the Central Bank of the World.” Mark Grant @Varneyco
Correct! The Federal Reserve acted far too quickly, and now is very, very late. Too bad, so much to gain on the upside!

So far, you’ve had Tariffs imposed on 300 Billion Dollars worth of Chinese products, but you can’t tell me that it has hurt our economy...& it really hasn’t led to any kind of serious rise in prices at the consumer level.” @Varneyco
@FoxBusiness
And we are taking in $Billions! Tremendous amounts of money pouring into the United States," because "People want safety! "


Trump thinks he's running a business and we are his employees. Not the other way around, which is reality. His tariff war is "how much money am I making?"

 

[Bitek]

So lets take the average retirement age in the US which is between the ages of 63 to 65. If we add 20 to 30 years of post retirement age like you suggested that means we average 83 to 95 years of age. Now lets factor in the average lifespan of people in the US which is 73 to 75 years of age.
Now I'm not trying to come off as sounding mean or condescending but the numbers you proposed do not necessarily correlate.

I'm planning on living that long. I'm certainly not planning my retirement account to only last 7-10yrs, running out of money, and eating cat food in a low rent apt until I croak.

 

[cytg111]

Planning for a 401k is like giving up on life before you even get to live it.
If you are not aiming to get to at least 250 before you die from an accident then you are prioritizing wrong.
Stocks stocks stocks stocks stocks.

 

[Jaskalas]

I looks like China's strategy is now going to be to just keep escalating until the 2020 election to force Trump to either back down or kill his chances in the election. They are going after him personally.

I suppose if we can't fix this mess... good for them?

It's entirely a situation of Trump's own making. He could have played nice with others, he could have kept the status quo. Instead he knows nothing, !@#$s all over the board and claims victory. I want our country to prosper, but Trump needs a swift kick in the !@# before that can happen. Maybe then enough independent voters will understand the cost of electing a moron whose only move is telling them lies they like to hear.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Trump promised to get the trade deficit down, but his profound lack of understanding of economics has led to it increasing, just as most economists predicted it would. Despite Trump’s bad economic management and his attempt to talk the dollar down, and the Fed’s lowering of interest rates, his policies have resulted in the US dollar remaining strong, thereby discouraging exports and encouraging imports. Economists have repeatedly tried to explain to him that trade agreements may affect which countries the US buys from and sells to, but not the magnitude of the overall deficit.

In this, as in so many other areas, from exchange rates to foreign policy, Trump believes what he wants to believe, leaving those who can least afford it to pay the price.

 

[fskimospy]

Trump promised to get the trade deficit down, but his profound lack of understanding of economics has led to it increasing, just as most economists predicted it would. Despite Trump’s bad economic management and his attempt to talk the dollar down, and the Fed’s lowering of interest rates, his policies have resulted in the US dollar remaining strong, thereby discouraging exports and encouraging imports. Economists have repeatedly tried to explain to him that trade agreements may affect which countries the US buys from and sells to, but not the magnitude of the overall deficit.

In this, as in so many other areas, from exchange rates to foreign policy, Trump believes what he wants to believe, leaving those who can least afford it to pay the price.

It is situations like this where I wish the news would focus less on Trump's racism and mental illness and instead focus more on his incompetence.

He's very bad at his job because he doesn't know what he's doing and is incapable of learning. This seems like important information!

 

[VRAMdemon]

It is situations like this where I wish the news would focus less on Trump's racism and mental illness and instead focus more on his incompetence.

He's very bad at his job because he doesn't know what he's doing and is incapable of learning. This seems like important information!

This Dipshit...Despite promising to wipe out the national debt in eight years during his presidential campaign, the president has added an estimated $4.1 trillion to the country's debt within his first two and a half years in office.

Interest paid on the increasing national debt has surged, already surpassing the total spent all last year.

Net interest paid on the national debt has jumped up nearly $20 billion to $343 billion in the first 10 months of this fiscal year, already surpassing the $325 billion spent all of last year.

Where is the fucking Tea Party?...Remember them?...it's fair to suggest the Tea Party movement was never about the debt, fiscal conservatism. The Tea Party will Mysteriously return, and the GOP will do a total u-turn once a Democrat is in the Oval Office again. I remember the Tea Party movement never supported cuts to military spending. It's always been about "I'm paying too much tax".

 

[K1052]

It is situations like this where I wish the news would focus less on Trump's racism and mental illness and instead focus more on his incompetence.

He's very bad at his job because he doesn't know what he's doing and is incapable of learning. This seems like important information!

Worse he actively disbelieves economic information and forecasts that don't provide a favorable picture of the economy because he thinks (insanely) they're designed to hurt his re-elect.

If things go really south while he's in office expect no competent intervention from his government.

 

[fskimospy]

This Dipshit...Despite promising to wipe out the national debt in eight years during his presidential campaign, the president has added an estimated $4.1 trillion to the country's debt within his first two and a half years in office.

Interest paid on the increasing national debt has surged, already surpassing the total spent all last year.

Net interest paid on the national debt has jumped up nearly $20 billion to $343 billion in the first 10 months of this fiscal year, already surpassing the $325 billion spent all of last year.

Where is the fucking Tea Party?...Remember them?...it's fair to suggest the Tea Party movement was never about the debt, fiscal conservatism. The Tea Party will Mysteriously return, and the GOP will do a total u-turn once a Democrat is in the Oval Office again. I remember the Tea Party movement never supported cuts to military spending. It's always been about "I'm paying too much tax".

The thing that bothers me is that the Tea Party was never about fiscal conservatism and this was 100% obvious from the start. There were plenty of contemporaneous analyses of the Tea Party movement that said it was just dressed up white identity politics but for years Republicans pretended that it was about deficits and debt and the news media, always worried of appearing biased, pretended to believe them.

Yes though, the tea party and the obsession with deficits and debt will suddenly return in January of 2021 if a Democrat wins and they will all say 'we lost our way but this time we're serious' as a way to hand-wave away their hypocrisy. What's worse is I bet the media pretends to believe them yet again.

 

[fskimospy]

Worse he actively disbelieves economic information and forecasts that don't provide a favorable picture of the economy because he thinks (insanely) they're designed to hurt his re-elect.

If things go really south while he's in office expect no competent intervention from his government.

Yes, since he's been in office Trump has only been faced with one actual crisis, the hurricane in Puerto Rico, and he ROYALLY fucked that up. That wasn't even that big a crisis either, imagine how badly he would perform in another 2008 scenario.

 

[K1052]

Yes, since he's been in office Trump has only been faced with one actual crisis, the hurricane in Puerto Rico, and he ROYALLY fucked that up. That wasn't even that big a crisis either, imagine how badly he would perform in another 2008 scenario.

They are not making any contingency plans for a recession because they think it would be defeatist, despite the growing amount of signs that one might be just around the corner. They're worried about upsetting Dear Leader by showing any lack of faith in the Very Powerful Yuuge Trump Economy.

 

[Thump553]

They are not making any contingency plans for a recession because they think it would be defeatist, despite the growing amount of signs that one might be just around the corner. They're worried about upsetting Dear Leader by showing any lack of faith in the Very Powerful Yuuge Trump Economy.

It's more than that-they have already dissipated the federal government's ability to face a financial crisis by cranking up borrowing in good times in order to give the wealthy further tax cuts, eliminated or gutted safety nets, etc.

It is pretty obvious to anyone with any knowledge of economics that the next crash is going to be a dozy. Even Trump knows it-he is planning on the crash coming after he is reelected or (even better from his viewpoint) after he is out of office.

Mediocre businessmen are notorious for short term planning-looking to the next quarter's results only. Trump has taken this to extremes.

 

[cytg111]

Suppose it crashes now ... how will he stimulate the economy? - while at the same time running his trade wars?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Suppose it crashes now ... how will he stimulate the economy? - while at the same time running his trade wars?

Same way a CEO does, sell off states to another govt for a quick surge, collect bonus, then retire/move on.

 

[Muse]

I think it depends on how old you are. To me it sounds like you did not allocate enough of your income into retirement accounts when you were younger. Now that you are older you are trying to make up for lost time by keeping your money in higher risk allocations like stock.
Of course this assessment is all based on a few posts I've read so take this post with a grain of salt.

I have always pretty much saved as much as I could. Problem is I never had job security. I inherited some money, I don't want to blow it, but I am not comfortable using the strategies recommended for older retired people. They just seem to staid for me. Yes, I'm trying to make up for lost time but I think the system I've adopted will prove over time to be quite worthy.

 

[jmagg]

I for one would hate to depend on the markets for my retirement considering how gossly overvalued it is at the present time. Not to mention the manipulation.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Same way a CEO does, sell off states to another govt for a quick surge, collect bonus, then retire/move on.

He can't sell the states, they are independent governments as well, he could perhaps sell Puerto Rico, he has never liked them anyway. Maybe throw in Guam to sweeten the deal. I'm sure Trump doesn't even know where Guam is.
I wonder if a federal government can declare bankruptcy? That how the Trump do.

 

[fskimospy]

He can't sell the states, they are independent governments as well, he could perhaps sell Puerto Rico, he has never liked them anyway. Maybe throw in Guam to sweeten the deal. I'm sure Trump doesn't even know where Guam is.
I wonder if a federal government can declare bankruptcy? That how the Trump do.

Well technically the US federal government can't go bankrupt because all the debts it owes are in currency it prints. It could do thinks that would achieve similar results though like printing 40 trillion dollars overnight or something.

 

[cytg111]

I guess one of the points of a global recession is that even if you have something to sell, no one has the money to actually buy it.

 

[Exterous]

It's more than that-they have already dissipated the federal government's ability to face a financial crisis by cranking up borrowing in good times in order to give the wealthy further tax cuts, eliminated or gutted safety nets, etc.

It is pretty obvious to anyone with any knowledge of economics that the next crash is going to be a dozy. Even Trump knows it-he is planning on the crash coming after he is reelected or (even better from his viewpoint) after he is out of office.

On the positive side a bi-partisan effort by Congress removed tools the Fed used exceptionally effectively to fight the last recession. So we've got that going for us...

 

[ivwshane]

Well technically the US federal government can't go bankrupt because all the debts it owes are in currency it prints. It could do thinks that would achieve similar results though like printing 40 trillion dollars overnight or something.

Or by "forcing" countries to start abandoning the dollar. That's something the was extremely unlikely just like printing 40 trillion dollars, however, with this president? I'd say there is a possibility the we head down that path, albeit a small one.

 

[Thump553]

Don't even joke about the world abandoning the dollar as the global currency. I'm afraid we are headed down that road generally (due to an inability/unwillingness to stop deficit spending) and Donnie has stomped on the gas pedal with both feet-his trade wars (even against allies) and deficit funded tax cuts.

Right now $580 billion of US paper currency is used outside the USA, mostly as a hard currency in regimes like Russia, etc. That's 65% of all US currency. Among other things that's the equivalent of a $580 billion no interest no effort loan to the US. We lose the position of global currency and our borrowing costs are going to go up substantially. You young-ems will relearn the inflation lesson we learned in the 70's.

https://www.thebalance.com/world-currency-3305931

 

[Jhhnn]

Y'all just don't get it. All this counter cyclical Keynesian gubmint spending isn't in the interests of the capitalist elite unless it threatens the banking system like it did the last time. When the fucking Losers go down, they can stay down for all those folks care.

It's the difference between ruling in Hell or serving in Heaven, and they intend to rule under any circumstances.

 

[Muse]

I for one would hate to depend on the markets for my retirement considering how gossly overvalued it is at the present time. Not to mention the manipulation.

I'm there but I have my rules concerning jumping out of the stock market should things start looking bleak. It's a hard rule. Conversely, I have a hard rule for when to get back in. It's basically a golden cross/death cross system with confirmation signals. I figure it should result in much greater gains than sitting in online savings accounts or bond funds or pretty much any other low risk assets. A downside is the volatility. Day to day my equity can and will have major jumps, but my rules are my rules.

 

[JSt0rm]

ive got a film industry pension coming on top of the 401k and ss (lol) So I feel pretty comfortable. Living on 70k a year is a good metric. Everything else can be saved and used for big purchases and retirement.