Don't you dread single payer?

[Anarchist420]

im just worried that it is inevitable.

with ip and licensure it is going to cost way too much. the poor and especially the productive middle class will pay for it, and it just makes me depressed to even think about it. it won't solve the problem as people will still not have more access to good health care than they do now, choices will be reduced for both doctors and patience, there will be limited innovation, etc., etc. medicare places regs on doctors which is part of why so many doctor's offices are so inefficient and single payer would be even stronger fascism than medicare. pelosicare has made it even harder for cash only practices to survive.

not only does pure fascism suck, but even pure socialism where the doctors work for the govt would have elements of the fascism in it. nothing can be totally socialized either though for very long because then the drug lab and equipment companies would have to be run by the state. but once enough people are freed from the state, the market would be free from State aggression (which also means not any more individual aggression) forever.

the Conservative Party party of lincoln is to blame though, because they support the regressive taxes which makes all of these policies possible without hyperinflation. i just cant believe that anyone would say the bush tax cuts should reversed in any way.

many Democrats dont have any idea about the path we're on and the rest of the democrats are authoritarians out for their own gain.

besides, most medical students are women now and i think they'll care enough about their patients that they'd volunteer more. and i think that they will become good leaders like men were in the Jacksonian era not due to the state, but because of their larger prefrontal lobes, their matriarchal nature (most importantly), and because there are more of them. it won't happen until people like me die, are poor, executed, hospitalized, or get shipped off into chattel slavery but the the second enlightenment is going to be good because the laws of nature will one day be restored, people will last longer, and authoritarianism of any kind will have no place in civilization.

sorry for the stereotypes of women but that has become the general rule and is only going to get stronger.

 

[Juddog]

Why would you get depressed about it? Canada pays less per person for a single payer system than what we already pay per person - going single payer would actually allow us to pay less than what we're already paying.

So saying you're getting depressed, about paying less money, seems a little silly to me.

 

[JEDIYoda]

so the opposite of authoritarianism would ensue..............

 

[glenn1]

Single payer sucks. The only question is whether it sucks more than the bastardized system we have now. Basically because of a stupid FDR decision during World War 2 to impose price controls, we've suffered under a completely bizarre model of employer-based health insurance ever since. We'd be far better setting the whole damn thing on fire and starting over again, but after 3 generations there's probably too much inertia and people with a financial stake in the current mess to ever rationalize the system.

 

[nickbits]

I also think its inevitable. I think they will essentially turn medicare into something everyone gets. There are pros and cons to both ways. Personally I am not for it and have lived under that system for almost 30 years in Canada.
I'd rather pay high insurance premiums than have the costs "hidden" with taxes on everything like in Canada.

 

[MagickMan]

Why would you get depressed about it? Canada pays less per person for a single payer system than what we already pay per person - going single payer would actually allow us to pay less than what we're already paying.

So saying you're getting depressed, about paying less money, seems a little silly to me.

Because people who would have become doctors will go into other fields, why pay $300k to go to med school if you'll never be able to pay off your student loans? Most people become physicians because it pays well, if the government slashes doctor salaries, which is consistent with single payer systems in the rest of the world, we won't have nearly enough medical professionals to go around.

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100903-29587.html

 

[PrinceofWands]

I would LOVE true single payer (ie absolutely no insurance, just direct payment to the primary provider). It would adjust prices to equilibrium in no time at all.

I'm ok with our version of it (ie nationalized/socialized health care) as a compromise. It'd be a hell of a lot better than what we have now. ANYTHING is better than mandated private insurance.

 

[Anarchist420]

Why would you get depressed about it? Canada pays less per person for a single payer system than what we already pay per person - going single payer would actually allow us to pay less than what we're already paying. So saying you're getting depressed, about paying less money, seems a little silly to me.

if i paid less money on medications via socialism or single payer, then there would be shortages and the govt would be more likely to control what i get. they already grant m.d.s and n.p.s the exclusive privilege of writing prescriptions.

I'd rather pay high insurance premiums than have the costs "hidden" with taxes on everything like in Canada.

you wouldn't even have to pay high insurance premiums if the govt didn't regulate everything.

 

[DrPizza]

Because people who would have become doctors will go into other fields, why pay $300k to go to med school if you'll never be able to pay off your student loans? Most people become physicians because it pays well, if the government slashes doctor salaries, which is consistent with single payer systems in the rest of the world, we won't have nearly enough medical professionals to go around.

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20100903-29587.html

And, you don't think for a moment that the $300k in student loans is a result of knowing that these schools can extract that kind of money from people who want to be doctors? Huge supply of people wanting to become doctors - limited number of openings in the school (as set by the AMA); supply & demand?

 

[Juddog]

And, you don't think for a moment that the $300k in student loans is a result of knowing that these schools can extract that kind of money from people who want to be doctors? Huge supply of people wanting to become doctors - limited number of openings in the school (as set by the AMA); supply & demand?

Exactly - the number of doctors graduating each year is artificially capped. It's no wonder that we constantly have doctors here in the US that have immigrated from foreign countries.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

No, I seriously doubt it will ever be seen in the US as the puppet masters that control both parties will not allow it to happen.

 

[Doppel]

It has issues but seems the only solution to the total cluster fuck of health care is. The system works well for me with good insurance and I am sure things like access to an MRI will be harder when everything is single pay but I see it as inevitable.

 

[Brovane]

No I don't dread singe payer.

 

[Sonikku]

Not only do I dread it, but I'm just counting the minutes until Canada's unsustainable single payer system implodes onto itself. I'm surprised it hasn't already.

 

[Anarchist420]

No, I seriously doubt it will ever be seen in the US as the puppet masters that control both parties will not allow it to happen.

But doesn't medicare for all guarantee all doctors the same profit so that they don't have to worry if they don't do a good job?

 

[Juddog]

Not only do I dread it, but I'm just counting the minutes until Canada's unsustainable single payer system implodes onto itself. I'm surprised it hasn't already.

30 years and counting... still better than the US system. It seems that the US system will implode first; there are only so many bankrupted families from medical costs that the system can take.

 

[dank69]

But doesn't medicare for all guarantee all doctors the same profit so that they don't have to worry if they don't do a good job?

I don't really want a doctor motivated by profit, do you?

 

[IGBT]

it will be retrograde. it will be institutionalized medical mediocrity. It's failing in Canada / the UK / Europe. It's evaluated against fantasy rather then reality.

 

[Anarchist420]

I don't really want a doctor motivated by profit, do you?

I don't want the State because it attempts to force people to be the same. It would destroy any individuality remaining in the medical sector.

I also don't like legislated cartels (which are enforced at gun point) that most people have little control over. Do you have much control over what you use as a medium of exchange or does the govt order the banks to manipulate what you use for their mutual benefit or do you think that most people need elites to control things or are there more options that can be tried? With or without the State, there will be poor people and rich people. Sure Germany has a lot of equality of prosperity but that's because they control the EU at the expense of the vast majority of Grecians. Thanks to that, they want fascism back. Then the death merchants here will ask for Americans to get involved. Eventually, you have a whole world war.

That brings us to a new question... Wouldn't the world be a better place if WWI hadn't happened? Here's the answer: it had the awful long term outcome that it did because of JP Morgan's willingness to fund it for his own gain. 1913 was when the NWO really got going. In every single one of the 100 years since then, the U.S. govt has been occupying other countries and the U.S. govt is helped by merchants of death who can only create jobs in the short term. If the U.S. govt completely controlled it's war production, then it could only do that for so long or it would just oppress the people here. If the State didn't exist, then there would be no empire.

Anyway, if you want to start a business in this world it's pretty hard partly because nothing stops the State (and a lot of people who believe in the State) from continually asking if you want contracts or patents. It causes waste to start bidding for contracts and it takes from those who are productive. Then contracts with the State that are non-bid ones are pure 100% corruption like the dick and the bush.

 

[rudder]

Why would you get depressed about it? Canada pays less per person for a single payer system than what we already pay per person - going single payer would actually allow us to pay less than what we're already paying.

So saying you're getting depressed, about paying less money, seems a little silly to me.

No he is depressed because when he pays less for medical care this means the doctors are getting paid less. This then means we get fewer quality people who want to dedicate many many years to becoming doctors. If you have not noticed... the U.S. is not Canada.

 

[rockyct]

I, for one, welcome the single payer overlords.

Seriously though, my Canadian relatives can stop talking about how glad they are that they don't have our health care system. My dad's a doctor who sees a lot of ICU patients and he'll never get paid by a huge percent of them. He's actually quite happy for the ACA as more people will have insurance to pay for the care they are already receiving. I think in general, he would support a single payer system as long as medical school would be subsidized or reimbursed if you worked a certain number of years.

 

[Fern]

"Single payer" is a false canard.

It's unimportant who pays the bills. It's the bill that matters. Single payer does nothing to address the actual problems in our healthcare system (no standards for physicians, redundant and unnecessary medical procedures, we invent and make the drugs but subsidize them for the rest of world etc).

However, for Liberals/progressives single payer does have the attraction of killing off billions in market cap value (HI companies disappear etc) and converting even more people to govt workers (former HI employees who'll then work for the govt processing payments etc) thus making our govt even larger etc. Yeah, single payer is freakin awesome.

Fern

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

You can have the government be the insurer and not the provider people.

That will lower costs because a single entity will have a vested interest (and be accountable) for money paid out.

 

[shira]

it will be retrograde. it will be institutionalized medical mediocrity. It's failing in Canada / the UK / Europe. It's evaluated against fantasy rather then reality.

If all these single-payer systems are failing so badly, why are the life expectancies in ALL of these countries higher than in the U.S.?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

 

[MagickMan]

And, you don't think for a moment that the $300k in student loans is a result of knowing that these schools can extract that kind of money from people who want to be doctors? Huge supply of people wanting to become doctors - limited number of openings in the school (as set by the AMA); supply & demand?

That's an ancillary point, the issue is that research already pays more than being an MD, and if they increase the disparity by cutting salaries in the medical fields, so will many other professions.

What? Are we going to "mandate" that certain people must become physicians? England doesn't have enough doctors, and neither does France, Germany, or any other country in the EU.