Don Lemon fails miserably. Painful to watch. Consider yourself warned.

[smackababy]

You guys should be happy that most people don't realize that AR-15's are semi-automatic. If they did, it'll be the end of the legality of the AR-15.

Wat?

For starters, all fully automatic rifles are illegal without permit from the ATF (which is near impossible to obtain, as you have to provide a valid reason for need one and 'home defense' and 'good shoot' don't cut it).

Secondly, most people who are idiots likely believe AR-15s (as if they even know what that is) are fully automatic and can shoot a thousand bullets a second, blow up cars, and are the cause all the majority of gun deaths. And they are wrong on all accounts.

 

[Paul98]

You and this thread remind me of those protestors who thought it was a good idea to walk around stores and restaurants with their AR-15's strapped to their backs.

Most people don't care about the details. All they would need to know is how deadly the weapon is and the AR-15 is plenty deadly.

You guys should be happy that most people don't realize that AR-15's are semi-automatic. If they did, it'll be the end of the legality of the AR-15. Target and other retailers made a capitalistic decision to not allow open carry in their stores. That meant they gambled on the people who didn't want it vs. those who did. And when the money speaks...

I don't own a gun and I think those open carry at restaurants are stupid. But it seems many simply don't know what the words semi-automatic and automatic mean.

 

[soulcougher73]

I don't own a gun and I think those open carry at restaurants are stupid. But it seems many simply don't know what the words semi-automatic and automatic mean.

I think you are right and now i know, but is that really the important issue? I mean they all can kill and can shoot lots of rounds right? To me the discussion should be about what is sensible gun control legislastion and is opening carrying something we as a nation want. So to me semi or full automatic is sorta semantics as it glosses over the real issues that need talking about.

I dont have the answers and dont really have much skin in the game as a non gun owner. But i do think its rediculous that people want to carry AR-15s into stores and walk around town with them strapped to their backs as if this was the wild wild west.

 

[Attic]

I think you are right and now i know, but is that really the important issue? I mean they all can kill and can shoot lots of rounds right? To me the discussion should be about what is sensible gun control legislastion and is opening carrying something we as a nation want. So to me semi or full automatic is sorta semantics as it glosses over the real issues that need talking about.

I dont have the answers and dont really have much skin in the game as a non gun owner. But i do think its rediculous that people want to carry AR-15s into stores and walk around town with them strapped to their backs as if this was the wild wild west.

The discussion needs to happen with clear and accurate info, otherwise known as the truth in order to get best results. If either side is playing grab ass with words or goal post shifting (and if it works or is tolerated) it obscures the debate and isolates power in wrong hands. We can look to the junk we deal with in R and D as the end point of this form of shenags.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think you are right and now i know, but is that really the important issue? I mean they all can kill and can shoot lots of rounds right? To me the discussion should be about what is sensible gun control legislastion and is opening carrying something we as a nation want. So to me semi or full automatic is sorta semantics as it glosses over the real issues that need talking about.

I dont have the answers and dont really have much skin in the game as a non gun owner. But i do think its rediculous that people want to carry AR-15s into stores and walk around town with them strapped to their backs as if this was the wild wild west.

Everything which can fire more than one bullet can be "automatic" by definitions used and yes it does make a difference.

Let's change from guns to race and exercise the same ignorance and apparent intent.

Violent crime is an issue. I'll walk around long enough in the inner city black neighborhood known to have a high crime and eventually I'm going to be assaulted. Lets look at crime statistics. Blacks commit proportionally more violent crime than whites. What do we do about these violent blacks and how do we protect ourselves from them? Registration perhaps? They are inherently dangerous, so we need to get away from these arguments of equality and talk about safety, which is what's really important.

Here's the difference between Lemon and what I just said. I got all the facts right, but the interpretation is not any better and for similarly dishonest purpose. Having an "honest" discussion based on premises like I used isn't honest.

 

[emperus]

Are you saying that semi-automatic weapons are going to be banned?

Why don't you pick a better straw man to debate like.

"Are you saying guns are going to be banned".

Because you know I didn't say either.

 

[soulcougher73]

The discussion needs to happen with clear and accurate info, otherwise known as the truth in order to get best results. If either side is playing grab ass with words or goal post shifting (and if it works or is tolerated) it obscures the debate and isolates power in wrong hands. We can look to the junk we deal with in R and D as the end point of this form of shenags.

I agree. Being educated is important, but i really dont think the gun debate issue is actually revolving around semi or full auto weapons. Its about guns in general and do we really need people totting them around all the time. Im fine with gun ranges and people owning guns for defense etc, but walking into Applebee's with ANY gun on your person seems a bit extreme to lots of folks. I think that is the real issue. Not semi vs full auto debate. To me that is moving goal posts to avoid the actual topic.

I mean a semi or full auto is going to kill about the same rate of people with a dedicated person, so to me that is kind of a moot point.

I think if were up to me id allow concelled carry/open carry of pistols only. You can still own an AR-15 etc, but its for range or hunting only. Not to carry around town with you while you shop. Or something like that.

 

[emperus]

I don't own a gun and I think those open carry at restaurants are stupid. But it seems many simply don't know what the words semi-automatic and automatic mean.

It's a difference without a distinction when it comes to this debate especially surrounding AR-15's. The details of fully vs. semi automatic don't seem to matter when you tell someone the AR-15 can kill 45 people in one minute.

 

[Attic]

I agree. Being educated is important, but i really dont think the gun debate issue is actually revolving around semi or full auto weapons. Its about guns in general and do we really need people totting them around all the time. Im fine with gun ranges and people owning guns for defense etc, but walking into Applebee's with ANY gun on your person seems a bit extreme to lots of folks. I think that is the real issue. Not semi vs full auto debate. To me that is moving goal posts to avoid the actual topic.

I mean a semi or full auto is going to kill about the same rate of people with a dedicated person, so to me that is kind of a moot point.

I think if were up to me id allow concelled carry/open carry of pistols only. You can still own an AR-15 etc, but its for range or hunting only. Not to carry around town with you while you shop. Or something like that.

Personally i'd agree. And Lemons end goal *might be* the best outcome. But from my experience the real power isn't between you and me, or between us and Lemon, the real power is between many people deciding.

Those decisions when made are most empowered when given the honest and accurate measures of the world around them. In this way, when Don Lemon, or others shift goal posts or bend debate to suite their agenda they are not empowering others, they are empowering themselves or their agenda. I guess it's fine if we agree with them, but again to me, that's not where real power is best consolidated.

Prejudicing a debate can and will achieve goals of the one doing the prejudice, but it strips power away from rather than distributing it to the people.

It works because almost everybody wants to be told what they believe, not the truth. Politicians and commentators looking for ratings are happy to oblige.

 

[HumblePie]

Wow that guy is a complete moron. It's not "semantics" is the word of law. No one can just go out an buy an automatic weapon in 20 minutes. Fucking moron. To conflate automatic and semi-automatic as the same thing is either gross stupidity, or the worst form of propaganda. In this case I am going to go with a bit of both for the answer.

 

[MrPickins]

Why don't you pick a better straw man to debate like.

"Are you saying guns are going to be banned".

Because you know I didn't say either.

I'm not trying to debate you, I'm trying to understand exactly what you were implying.

 

[blankslate]

Guy needs to do more research before doing stories or get kicked back to gofer or other reporters.


....

 

[Genx87]

I agree. Being educated is important, but i really dont think the gun debate issue is actually revolving around semi or full auto weapons. Its about guns in general and do we really need people totting them around all the time. Im fine with gun ranges and people owning guns for defense etc, but walking into Applebee's with ANY gun on your person seems a bit extreme to lots of folks. I think that is the real issue. Not semi vs full auto debate. To me that is moving goal posts to avoid the actual topic.

I mean a semi or full auto is going to kill about the same rate of people with a dedicated person, so to me that is kind of a moot point.

I think if were up to me id allow concelled carry/open carry of pistols only. You can still own an AR-15 etc, but its for range or hunting only. Not to carry around town with you while you shop. Or something like that.

It absolutely revolves around mislabeling and spreading ignorance. By continuing to tell people AR-15s are automatic military grade weapons. Or that barrel shrouds make guns more lethal. Or 30 round magazines are dangerous.

People will decide they are more dangerous and ban them based on misinformation.

 

[FerrelGeek]

It's a difference without a distinction when it comes to this debate especially surrounding AR-15's. The details of fully vs. semi automatic don't seem to matter when you tell someone the AR-15 can kill 45 people in one minute.

In theory, you could kill that many with semi-auto pistol as well. You could do a lot of damage with a revolver as well. Watch this.l..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsLx5ISBXw4

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I don't care if it's just a semantic argument, it's unprofessional for a journalist to get their facts wrong, and he is demonstrably wrong. Get your shit together if you want to be taken seriously as an arbiter of truth.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Guy needs to do more research before doing stories or get kicked back to gofer or other reporters.


....

Not as long as he keeps quoting the party line. He'll probably get promoted.

 

[Attic]

I don't care if it's just a semantic argument, it's unprofessional for a journalist to get their facts wrong, and he is demonstrably wrong. Get your shit together if you want to be taken seriously as an arbiter of truth.

:thumbsup:

 

[Svnla]

Also, AR-15 and similar guns looks scary per ignorant fools but their calibers are smaller than your grandpa hunting rifles (.223/5.56 vs. .308/30-60).


I am no gun expert by any mean but at least I do know that. Goodness.

 

[smackababy]

I don't care if it's just a semantic argument, it's unprofessional for a journalist to get their facts wrong, and he is demonstrably wrong. Get your shit together if you want to be taken seriously as an arbiter of truth.

Facts? Who needs those? Just get an attention grabbing headline and some "omg, this is scary!" pseudo-logic and you've got yourself a story!

 

[Spungo]

Facts? Who needs those? Just get an attention grabbing headline and some "omg, this is scary!" pseudo-logic and you've got yourself a story!

But as us ultra liberals say, it's ok to lie.
-South Park

 

[shortylickens]

The rules for buying automatic weapons are pretty much exactly the same as revolvers, lever action, single shot, and pump.

The real restrictions are on full auto weapons. You generally need a special federal permit.


California once had a ban on .50 BMG's that were semi-auto, leaving only the single shot Barret around.
Then they banned anything in .50 BMG. Which was really just that single shot Barret rifle.


No crime has ever been committed in California with either version.

 

[Spungo]

California once had a ban on .50 BMG's that were semi-auto, leaving only the single shot Barret around.
Then they banned anything in .50 BMG. Which was really just that single shot Barret rifle.


No crime has ever been committed in California with either version.

Are you telling me gang bangers don't commit crimes with weapons costing almost $9,000?
/shocked

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

The rules for buying automatic weapons are pretty much exactly the same as revolvers, lever action, single shot, and pump.

The real restrictions are on full auto weapons. You generally need a special federal permit.


California once had a ban on .50 BMG's that were semi-auto, leaving only the single shot Barret around.
Then they banned anything in .50 BMG. Which was really just that single shot Barret rifle.


No crime has ever been committed in California with either version.

Not only that but then manufacturers turned around and made rifles in .510. They named the .50BMG specifically, but the bullet itself is .510 in diameter so all that changed was the naming of what the guns were chambered for. And since the new round was identical to .50BMG, it was backwards compatible.

Basically a law that did nothing. I don't know if they fixed this or not. Just goes to show people make laws with no understanding of what they are talking about.

 

[Victorian Gray]

canadian spelling of bask, like cheque vs check

In case you are serious?

The Basque are an indigenous ethnic group who primarily inhabit an area traditionally known as the Basque Country, a region that is located around the western end of the Pyrenees on the coast of the ... Wikipedia

 

[row]

"...Everything which can fire more than one bullet can be "automatic" by definitions used..."

can't imagine where you get your definitions. but. no. by this def. my 870 is automatic - lol

automatic - after trigger is depressed and held cartridges will be spent until release of the trigger or weapon runs out of ammo, which ever occurs first.

semi-automatic - one cartridge maximum spent for each pull of the trigger.

The rules for buying automatic weapons are pretty much exactly the same as revolvers, lever action, single shot, and pump.

The real restrictions are on full auto weapons. You generally need a special federal permit.

you must have meant "...buying semi-automatic weapons..." , as the rules for purchasing automatic weapons and all others is anything but the same.

any weapon labeled automatic is just that, capable of two modes of fire, full auto and semi.