DOJ tells schools to implement race-based punishments

[Matt1970]

Ahhh... so then this is what eskimospy is referring to.

Yep. And remember, according to eskimospy just publishing a study does not mean it's true. (See his opinion on global cooling) but a study on racism has to be gospel. And the first study they mention is copyrighted and costs $10 to view. Sorry, I already waste too much of my time, I am not going to start wasting my money too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ahhh... so then this is what eskimospy is referring to.

That may or may not be HIS issue, but page 12 of the document and it's real world consequences would be my concern.

 

[boomerang]

I'm so glad I don't possess the prog gene. It's just got to be a horrible way to have to go through life.

 

[nehalem256]

There's also this part on 'disparate impact', which is what people here have become OUTRAGED about.

In short, it says that if a school has a policy that disproportionately impacts certain racial groups this policy requires that schools be doing so in order to meet their educational goals and if there is an important educational goal there that the disproportionate policy is the best way to achieve that goal. Sounds like common sense to me.

So do you want to explain why:

Examples of policies that can raise disparate impact concerns include policies that impose mandatory suspension, expulsion, or citation (e.g., ticketing or other fines or summonses) upon any student who commits a specified offense — such as being tardy to class, being in possession of a cellular phone, being found insubordinate, acting out, or not wearing the proper school uniform.”

Those disciplinary rules are not necessary to meet import educational goals?

 

[fskimospy]

Yep. And remember, according to eskimospy just publishing a study does not mean it's true. (See his opinion on global cooling) but a study on racism has to be gospel. And the first study they mention is copyrighted and costs $10 to view. Sorry, I already waste too much of my time, I am not going to start wasting my money too.

You're seriously either patholologically dishonest or a complete idiot. Considering you can't read a dictionary I'm going to guess #2.

A study is one piece of evidence. In the case of 'global cooling' it was isolated evidence that was counteracted by large amounts of other evidence. If you have access to other scientific study that you believe refutes the idea that minority students are disproportionately punished in school settings please link it.

 

[Genx87]

I read about half of this document and have sympathy for our educators. Our bureaucracy has turned disciplining students into 32 pages of flowcharts and scenarios.

Maybe the last 15 pages brings something up I didn't see in the first 17. But this document seems to be a bunch of political speak sent out by the DoJ guide lining districts on how not to discriminate.

 

[boomerang]

I read about half of this document and have sympathy for our educators. Our bureaucracy has turned disciplining students into 32 pages of flowcharts and scenarios.

It's at the heart of a progressive form of government. All power, all knowledge resides with the government. Having control is of the utmost importance. Step out of line and the punishment is harsh.

This will only get worse as long as we stand by and let it happen. We're being fundamentally transformed.

 

[Matt1970]

You're seriously either patholologically dishonest or a complete idiot. Considering you can't read a dictionary I'm going to guess #2.

A study is one piece of evidence. In the case of 'global cooling' it was isolated evidence that was counteracted by large amounts of other evidence. If you have access to other scientific study that you believe refutes the idea that minority students are disproportionately punished in school settings please link it.

Huge difference here is you are taking that study as gospel but haven't read, and I am the dishonest one.

Now I am supposed to post a link to dispute a study I:
1. Cannot read without paying $10
2. Cannot post any of it's findings without violating copyright laws.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There's also this part on 'disparate impact', which is what people here have become OUTRAGED about.



In short, it says that if a school has a policy that disproportionately impacts certain racial groups this policy requires that schools be doing so in order to meet their educational goals and if there is an important educational goal there that the disproportionate policy is the best way to achieve that goal. Sounds like common sense to me.

Of course. If a student is disruptive in class removing them if they are a minority would place them at a disadvantage because of their race. In fact a case could be made for most anything with consequences.

 

[cubby1223]

It basically means, all schools are guilty, and it is of the DOJ's discretion which schools will be punished and which ones not.

 

[boomerang]

It basically means, all schools are guilty, and it is of the DOJ's discretion which schools will be punished and which ones not.

Well, it was widely felt that car dealers that leaned right were put out of business when the .gov took over the domestic auto industry so it's not out of the question for school districts in red counties across the nation to expect some headaches.

Resistance is futile.

 

[fskimospy]

Of course. If a student is disruptive in class removing them if they are a minority would place them at a disadvantage because of their race. In fact a case could be made for most anything with consequences.

So what? I get the feeling like you might want to read up more about disparate impact.

I still find it funny that conservatives in here are now predicting tyranny (yet again) despite the fact that much of the US has operated under exactly this standard for half a century. Presumably tyranny has not overwhelmed us yet.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So what? I get the feeling like you might want to read up more about disparate impact.

I still find it funny that conservatives in here are now predicting tyranny (yet again) despite the fact that much of the US has operated under exactly this standard for half a century. Presumably tyranny has not overwhelmed us yet.

Odd you keep bringing up conservatives as you have one of the most "conservative minds" here.

 

[Matt1970]

So what? I get the feeling like you might want to read up more about disparate impact.

I still find it funny that conservatives in here are now predicting tyranny (yet again) despite the fact that much of the US has operated under exactly this standard for half a century. Presumably tyranny has not overwhelmed us yet.

Do you really believe that racism is so bad in our schools that we need to sick the Department Of Justice on them?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Do you really believe that racism is so bad in our schools that we need to sick the Department Of Justice on them?

What he believes is that minorities are entitled to ruin the classroom for everyone, including other minorities, without consequence and that's because it's been that way for 50 years.

 

[umbrella39]

I'm so glad I don't possess the prog gene. It's just got to be a horrible way to have to go through life.

Yeah... but you do possess an extra chromosome so at least you have that going for you slugger! Way to fuel you're daily requirement of fauxrage low inforang...

 

[1prophet]

So what? I get the feeling like you might want to read up more about disparate impact.

I still find it funny that conservatives in here are now predicting tyranny (yet again) despite the fact that much of the US has operated under exactly this standard for half a century. Presumably tyranny has not overwhelmed us yet.

No it hasn't, there was a time not to long ago when the teacher was the law in the classroom and the students showed respect regardless of race without any need of the zero tolerance bs that we have now or calling in the police for every minor infraction but it seems few remember it.

A lot of the bs that teachers put up with isn't tolerated in other countries.

other countries
http://silverinternational.mbhs.edu/v223/v22_3_04c_schoolpunish.html

better discussion here on school discipline worldwide
http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/212843-there-discipline-problem-other-countrys-schools.html



this cartoon sums up the differences in American schools between past and present very well.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Should I call Eskimospy a libtard or progtard?

 

[Matt1970]

What he believes is that minorities are entitled to ruin the classroom for everyone, including other minorities, without consequence and that's because it's been that way for 50 years.

Schools are now going to be more focused on making sure the amount of disciplinary action for each race is equal. Making them match will mean either ignoring what would normally be punishable behavior from a minority or trump up some punishments for non-minorities.

This is what we come up with when we put a little thought into the problems facing our schools today? Maybe we should just go back to throwing money at the problem.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

That site is worse than tomshardware on a mobile device.

 

[Matt1970]

Should I call Eskimospy a libtard or progtard?

If you want to sink to the level of Phokus or Incorruptible, knock yourself out. You are only doing damage to yourself. Nobody ever won an argument or debate by how many insults they flung.

 

[fskimospy]

What he believes is that minorities are entitled to ruin the classroom for everyone, including other minorities, without consequence and that's because it's been that way for 50 years.

I like how just a few posts back you complained about me not wanting to engage on the issue but then make posts like this.

How about you actually go back, read the letter again, go read up on the issues that its referencing, then try to make a real argument.

 

[theeedude]

Going to wait for a report from a legitimate news source before forming an opinion on the matter.

 

[Matt1970]

Going to wait for a report from a legitimate news source before forming an opinion on the matter.

LOL. There are bunches of people quoted:
Joy Pullmann, managing editor of School Reform News
Andrew Coulson, director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the Cato Institute
Frederick Hess, director of education policy at the American Enterprise Institute

You can even see the document yourself, but I guess I can understand you need to wait to hear from Rachel Maddow before you know what to think.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

If you want to sink to the level of Phokus or Incorruptible, knock yourself out. You are only doing damage to yourself. Nobody ever won an argument or debate by how many insults they flung.

I feel that it is proper to use the progtard's strategy against themselves.