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Dogs see grass and sunlight for the first time

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When I was in college a fellow student and I did a paper for a journalism course about test lab dogs. We went to a nearby university that has a veterinary college that was doing cancer testing on beagles.

I don't even want to think about the images burned into my mind. That was a life changing experience.
 
halik said:
Perknose said:
stop_animal_testing-base.png
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Graphic emotional pleas generally demonstrate lack of rational argument.
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Yes, your graphic emtional plea most certainly does demonstrate your complete lack of any rational argument whatsoever.

Care to engage me on the FACTS?

I guess, you, too, didn't bother to read the text detailing the many reasons COSMETIC testing is as unnecessary as it is scientifically unreliable. Here's just one small bit of it:

The Humane Society of the United States says:

Everyone agrees that things like cosmetics, detergents and chemicals should be tested—for the safety of people, animals, and the environment. But how? The usual approach is to pump a substance into an animal’s stomach or airways, or apply it to their eyes or on their skin. Most of these tests are crude, decades-old procedures.

More effective are sophisticated alternatives like Episkin®, artificial human skin that can replace some animal tests in a fraction of the time and cost. Technologies like these are being continually developed. At the same time, the public’s desire to buy products that haven’t been tested on animals has dramatically increased.
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Perknose said:
I wouldn't, but, historically, cosmetics have been cruelly and unnecessarily tested on animals, for marketing rather than scientific or human safety reasons, and in instances where more humane and scientifically rigorous alternatives exist.

primate_testing_540x.jpg
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It's all in the marketing:

botox.png
 
waggy said:
/this

i would rather we kill 100 mice/rabbits/dogs then 1 human. i have no issue testing stuff on them.

I do wish makeup company's could do it without using animals. but no way can they do medical research without them.


Sure we have a prison population but that was outlawed long time ago.
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These beagles are used in biomedical testing. I'm roundly opposed to cosmetic testing and the such, but as you said, when it comes to research, there really is no other appropriate model.

This beagle video doesn't mention anything about what they were used for (merely, that they were "poked and prodded), and so it strives to jumble the division between legitimate and essential biological research and preposterously illegitimate cosmetic research.

Working in and around vivariums for several years, in academic settings that perform no cosmetic or unnecessary testing, you still have to be wary for PETA and their ilk trying to sneak in and release animals that, if set out into the wild, become far more dangerous to natural populations (transgenics).
 
Is it certain that the dogs have never seen sun and/or grass? Or are they just nervous of the strange (to them) surroundings and people and the group claims the former for emotional impact?

There's absolutely no detail about where they were kept/tested and for what. I'm skeptical.
 
I don't have time to watch the video right now, but testing on animals also leads to better medical procedures for those animals. The life expectancy of humans has increased; but at the same time, people seem to forget that the life expectancy of many pets has also increased.
 
Gooberlx2 said:
Is it certain that the dogs have never seen sun and/or grass? Or are they just nervous of the strange (to them) surroundings and people and the group claims the former for emotional impact?

There's absolutely no detail about where they were kept/tested and for what. I'm skeptical.
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well, they don't want to let you know that they are purpose-bread animals that are generally kept for ~2 years and d-wormed prior to adoption. The research that they are involved in helps to foster knowledge of disease and fundamental biological processes, in both humans and animals.

They also don't want you to know that in general, the researches that work with these animals tend to foster mold bonds with them--they certainly aren't abused in any physical sense. They do get visits. Cage life certainly sucks, but so does living in a shelter and getting euthenized.

This is generally the case with beagles, anyway.
 
DrPizza said:
I don't have time to watch the video right now, but testing on animals also leads to better medical procedures for those animals. The life expectancy of humans has increased; but at the same time, people seem to forget that the life expectancy of many pets has also increased.
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True, but at what cost. I mean would you want to be tested on just so future generations may live a year or so longer?
 
Meh, I for one am happy they test stuff on animals and hope they continue to do so.

I also welcome prisoner testing if the animal testing proves successful enough. Some sort of final check to make sure it is safe for human consumption. Death row guys, come on down!
 
Zedtom said:
When I was in college a fellow student and I did a paper for a journalism course about test lab dogs. We went to a nearby university that has a veterinary college that was doing cancer testing on beagles.

I don't even want to think about the images burned into my mind. That was a life changing experience.
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I imagine it would.

Though logically I have less of a problem because it's cancer research, and therefore quite important. I have a much bigger problem with testing for something as useless and petty as cosmetics and shampoo.
 
If any researcher thinks that animals are the best models for testing cancer therapeutics, they are clearly mistaken. Clinical trials are the gold standard and in order to get these trials initiated, pre-clinical work with murines, canines and primates is often needed by CTEP but not always. There have been a few phase I trials where strong results from the bench top with clinical specimens, not including animal studies, were enough to kick-off a few clinical trials. I agree that animal studies can provide tremendous insight but their correlation to humans is limited at best.

There have been numerous reports where immuno-compromised mice have been cured of cancer with novel agent, "X," but fails miserably in patients 🙁. There are simply too many differences between mice and humans for researchers to make concrete, objective conclusions that will predict patient outcomes. The differences in metabolism and immune responses are often the biggest players in the studies I've performed. You can get around the immune system but there is no way to convert drug dosages between species.

I really have no solution to animal testing but if researchers are to use live animals, they better have extensive bench work and solid results that supports their hypothesis.

OP: The video is very touching and those beagles look like they will be awesome companions.
 
This is why God allows people to be smashed to death by falling tornado debris.
No respect for life.
Human life is no better or worthy than animal life.
And one day, that giant meteor won't miss the Earth, but hit square on.
God will save the animals. Humans will deservingly rot in fear.
 
sportage said:
This is why God allows people to be smashed to death by falling tornado debris.
No respect for life.
Human life is no better or worthy than animal life.
And one day, that giant meteor won't miss the Earth, but hit square on.
God will save the animals. Humans will deservingly rot in fear.
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Yes, because a giant meteor hitting the earth wouldn't kill any animals at all! 🙄
 
I'd love some seat time with people thinking animals are just fodder.

I don't hate people, however; much of my charity goes to animal causes.

My own feral colony is about a decent car payment each month. 30lbs of dry food and 98 cans of Friskies per week.
 
zinfamous said:
These beagles are used in biomedical testing. I'm roundly opposed to cosmetic testing and the such, but as you said, when it comes to research, there really is no other appropriate model.

This beagle video doesn't mention anything about what they were used for (merely, that they were "poked and prodded), and so it strives to jumble the division between legitimate and essential biological research and preposterously illegitimate cosmetic research.

Working in and around vivariums for several years, in academic settings that perform no cosmetic or unnecessary testing, you still have to be wary for PETA and their ilk trying to sneak in and release animals that, if set out into the wild, become far more dangerous to natural populations (transgenics).
Click to expand...

Total agreement from me. I love dogs, love 'em. Loved these adorable little beagles, but it doesn't change the fact that medical testing needs to be done, and it is simply better to do it on animals. Cosmetic testing, however, can go fuck itself.
 
zinfamous said:
This is pretty much the reality for terminal cancer patients. Many of them choose this route.
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Yep, it's almost like a legalized form of killing someone since they can be in a placebo group receiving no treatment or a less effective treatment.
 
Possessed Freak said:
Meh, I for one am happy they test stuff on animals and hope they continue to do so.

I also welcome prisoner testing if the animal testing proves successful enough. Some sort of final check to make sure it is safe for human consumption. Death row guys, come on down!
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Prisoner testing is stupid and inhumane.

Though I'm all for testing on volunteers that are willing to take the place of these animals, as they'd much rather prefer to see them set free.

Yet, none of them ever seem to step up to the plate. :\
 
zinfamous said:
Prisoner testing is stupid and inhumane.

Though I'm all for testing on volunteers that are willing to take the place of these animals, as they'd much rather prefer to see them set free.

Yet, none of them ever seem to step up to the plate. :\
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Wonder if we could make it legal for non-violent offenders to shorten their sentences in exchange for being test subjects. Most are already pumping their bodies full of poisons anyway.
 
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