Does Wal-Mart Destroy Communities?

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Uh, he didn't extrapolate his experience at one store to the situation at large. Read the article again:

Now, my personal observations hardly constitute proof that Bolton and the other Wal-Mart critics are wrong, but unless they can repudiate the opportunity cost argument, they have ground upon which to stand. Wal-Mart is not engaged in a grand conspiracy to push down wages in any given market, and twisted logic cannot prove otherwise.

Right, so why would he even mention it? Did he just get off on a little tangent to tell us all his little story, but oh yeah, bear in mind it's meaningless. How quaint. I'm supposed to take this guy seriously?

Wal-Mart has a vested interest in keeping wages and benefits as low as possible. They systematically crush any potential unions from springing up, they pay their workers less than other comperable retail and their benefits are a joke. They have workers working illegally off the clock. They hire illegal immigrants for their janitorial services. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, should I go on?

All of this behavior from the #1 retailer in North America. When does it stop being a "shining example" of American capitalism as some of you like to think, and start becoming a bloated, greedy monopoly?

It doesn't have to be this way. Costco has better prices than Wal-Mart/Sam's Club AND they treat their workers extremely well. Union leadership constantly cite Costco as one of the best places they've dealt with. A checkout clerk working at Costco for only a few years, takes home around $42K/year.

You don't see Costco employees sucking off the system, receving welfare, foodstamps and housing assistance. That ~$8/hr job at Wal-Mart has a much higher cost on the rest of us as their employees qualify for all kinds of social welfare programs.

Good post DM

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Uh, he didn't extrapolate his experience at one store to the situation at large. Read the article again:

Now, my personal observations hardly constitute proof that Bolton and the other Wal-Mart critics are wrong, but unless they can repudiate the opportunity cost argument, they have ground upon which to stand. Wal-Mart is not engaged in a grand conspiracy to push down wages in any given market, and twisted logic cannot prove otherwise.

Right, so why would he even mention it? Did he just get off on a little tangent to tell us all his little story, but oh yeah, bear in mind it's meaningless. How quaint. I'm supposed to take this guy seriously?

How am I supposed to know, why don't you email him and find out.

Wal-Mart has a vested interest in keeping wages and benefits as low as possible. They systematically crush any potential unions from springing up, they pay their workers less than other comperable retail and their benefits are a joke. They have workers working illegally off the clock. They hire illegal immigrants for their janitorial services. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, should I go on?

What corporation doesn't?! You think there are corporations that enjoy paying their employees inflated wages? Oh yeah, here you go, free money! Give me a break. The pay and the benefits at Wal-Mart are between Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart's employees. They voluntarily make a contract, no one as far as I know was shoved into Wal-Mart and forced to work there.

All of this behavior from the #1 retailer in North America. When does it stop being a "shining example" of American capitalism as some of you like to think, and start becoming a bloated, greedy monopoly?

Never. Wal-Mart is not a monopoly, and never will be.

It doesn't have to be this way. Costco has better prices than Wal-Mart/Sam's Club AND they treat their workers extremely well. Union leadership constantly cite Costco as one of the best places they've dealt with. A checkout clerk working at Costco for only a few years, takes home around $42K/year.

Costco has been victimized by unions, they have been forced to pay inflated wages.

You don't see Costco employees sucking off the system, receving welfare, foodstamps and housing assistance. That ~$8/hr job at Wal-Mart has a much higher cost on the rest of us as their employees qualify for all kinds of social welfare programs.

Have fun paying higher prices at the checkout.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Uh, he didn't extrapolate his experience at one store to the situation at large. Read the article again:

Now, my personal observations hardly constitute proof that Bolton and the other Wal-Mart critics are wrong, but unless they can repudiate the opportunity cost argument, they have ground upon which to stand. Wal-Mart is not engaged in a grand conspiracy to push down wages in any given market, and twisted logic cannot prove otherwise.

Right, so why would he even mention it? Did he just get off on a little tangent to tell us all his little story, but oh yeah, bear in mind it's meaningless. How quaint. I'm supposed to take this guy seriously?

How am I supposed to know, why don't you email him and find out.

Why should I have to?!? Frankly, anyone trying to establish a serious argument never need slip into quaint annecdotal tangents. It simply makes me think you really don't have a valid argument.

Wal-Mart has a vested interest in keeping wages and benefits as low as possible. They systematically crush any potential unions from springing up, they pay their workers less than other comperable retail and their benefits are a joke. They have workers working illegally off the clock. They hire illegal immigrants for their janitorial services. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, should I go on?

What corporation doesn't?! You think there are corporations that enjoy paying their employees inflated wages? Oh yeah, here you go, free money! Give me a break. The pay and the benefits at Wal-Mart are between Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart's employees. They voluntarily make a contract, no one as far as I know was shoved into Wal-Mart and forced to work there.

Yes, there are companies that strive to keep employees happy and well-paid. You know why? Turnover. It costs a company big time as employee turn over rises. Wal-Mart has a big issue with turn over and they pay from their bottom line for it. Costco on the other hand, SAVES money from employees that stay on the job much longer and don't have to constantly be training and retraining.

All of this behavior from the #1 retailer in North America. When does it stop being a "shining example" of American capitalism as some of you like to think, and start becoming a bloated, greedy monopoly?

Never. Wal-Mart is not a monopoly, and never will be.

Never? Oh, never say never. What happens when Wal-Mart inevitably drives out all other big retailers? KMart, Target, etc. At some point, just like Microsoft, they start to dominate their sector completely. Honestly, it surprises me you'd say never.

It doesn't have to be this way. Costco has better prices than Wal-Mart/Sam's Club AND they treat their workers extremely well. Union leadership constantly cite Costco as one of the best places they've dealt with. A checkout clerk working at Costco for only a few years, takes home around $42K/year.

Costco has been victimized by unions, they have been forced to pay inflated wages.

BS. Costco has an extremely good relationship with its unionized employees. Just read this article to see what I mean.

You don't see Costco employees sucking off the system, receving welfare, foodstamps and housing assistance. That ~$8/hr job at Wal-Mart has a much higher cost on the rest of us as their employees qualify for all kinds of social welfare programs.

Have fun paying higher prices at the checkout.

Hardly. Costco prices are comparable or lower to Wal-Mart Supercenters and/or Sam's Club. Their warehouse format, low employee turn-over, among other practices, allow them to have some of the lowest prices in the retail business. Prove me wrong. Go ahead.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Uh, he didn't extrapolate his experience at one store to the situation at large. Read the article again:

Now, my personal observations hardly constitute proof that Bolton and the other Wal-Mart critics are wrong, but unless they can repudiate the opportunity cost argument, they have ground upon which to stand. Wal-Mart is not engaged in a grand conspiracy to push down wages in any given market, and twisted logic cannot prove otherwise.

Right, so why would he even mention it? Did he just get off on a little tangent to tell us all his little story, but oh yeah, bear in mind it's meaningless. How quaint. I'm supposed to take this guy seriously?

How am I supposed to know, why don't you email him and find out.

Why should I have to?!? Frankly, anyone trying to establish a serious argument never need slip into quaint annecdotal tangents. It simply makes me think you really don't have a valid argument.


You are asking me to tell you an author's motivations in writing something. I cannot tell you this. This is like asking why Herman Melville wrote Moby Dick, and why he wrote it the way he did. Once again, how the heck am I supposed to know? However, to say that anecdotes have no place in argumentation is just silly.

Wal-Mart has a vested interest in keeping wages and benefits as low as possible. They systematically crush any potential unions from springing up, they pay their workers less than other comperable retail and their benefits are a joke. They have workers working illegally off the clock. They hire illegal immigrants for their janitorial services. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, should I go on?

What corporation doesn't?! You think there are corporations that enjoy paying their employees inflated wages? Oh yeah, here you go, free money! Give me a break. The pay and the benefits at Wal-Mart are between Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart's employees. They voluntarily make a contract, no one as far as I know was shoved into Wal-Mart and forced to work there.

Yes, there are companies that strive to keep employees happy and well-paid. You know why? Turnover. It costs a company big time as employee turn over rises. Wal-Mart has a big issue with turn over and they pay from their bottom line for it. Costco on the other hand, SAVES money from employees that stay on the job much longer and don't have to constantly be training and retraining.

OMG! Imagine that! A free market solution to the problem! Thank you for arguing my point. Any corporation that mis-treats their employees is going to have high turnover and labor shortages. No government coercion required.

All of this behavior from the #1 retailer in North America. When does it stop being a "shining example" of American capitalism as some of you like to think, and start becoming a bloated, greedy monopoly?

Never. Wal-Mart is not a monopoly, and never will be.

Never? Oh, never say never. What happens when Wal-Mart inevitably drives out all other big retailers? KMart, Target, etc. At some point, just like Microsoft, they start to dominate their sector completely. Honestly, it surprises me you'd say never.

Will never happen unless the government artificially throws up entry barriers to the market. More on that here: The Myth of the Natural Monopoly

It doesn't have to be this way. Costco has better prices than Wal-Mart/Sam's Club AND they treat their workers extremely well. Union leadership constantly cite Costco as one of the best places they've dealt with. A checkout clerk working at Costco for only a few years, takes home around $42K/year.

Costco has been victimized by unions, they have been forced to pay inflated wages.

BS. Costco has an extremely good relationship with its unionized employees. Just read this article to see what I mean.

Well, as long as the union does not use government coercion, and merely uses its collective bargaining power there is no problem with that. This also means that the union is not closed shop. More on that here: Analysis of Unions

You don't see Costco employees sucking off the system, receving welfare, foodstamps and housing assistance. That ~$8/hr job at Wal-Mart has a much higher cost on the rest of us as their employees qualify for all kinds of social welfare programs.

Have fun paying higher prices at the checkout.

Hardly. Costco prices are comparable or lower to Wal-Mart Supercenters and/or Sam's Club. Their warehouse format, low employee turn-over, among other practices, allow them to have some of the lowest prices in the retail business. Prove me wrong. Go ahead.

Ok, and government coercion is needed in this process, where???

 

[maluckey]

I happen to be a realist in that I beleive that Wal-Mart is just in making as much money as it can. That's what companies do. I also believe firmly that the end consumer is partially to blame for the rise of Wal-Mart, and their own communtiy problems.

Sure Wal-Mart drives out local business, normally builds away from town centers in an effort to avoid competition and to pay lower taxes, and pays employees as low as it can. It does this because Joe consumer wants cheap supplies and doesn't give a damn about how he gets it.

Wal-Mart has few big fans here in Arkansas, the home of Wal-Mart. Recent picketing in Little Rock against the giant for lowering property value and bringing crime to the Chenal area of the city was big news. The residents are selling their high-dollar homes, in an effort to salvage some of the value before it plummets too far. Property value has already dropped significantly. This sleepy, upscale neighborhood fears that the low-wages, and high volume of traffic through the neighborhood will ruin the once idyllic way of life for the residents. I think that they are right.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: maluckey
I happen to be a realist in that I beleive that Wal-Mart is just in making as much money as it can. That's what companies do. I also believe firmly that the end consumer is partially to blame for the rise of Wal-Mart, and their own communtiy problems.

Sure Wal-Mart drives out local business, normally builds away from town centers in an effort to avoid competition and to pay lower taxes, and pays employees as low as it can. It does this because Joe consumer wants cheap supplies and doesn't give a damn about how he gets it.

Wal-Mart has few big fans here in Arkansas, the home of Wal-Mart. Recent picketing in Little Rock against the giant for lowering property value and bringing crime to the Chenal area of the city was big news. The residents are selling their high-dollar homes, in an effort to salvage some of the value before it plummets too far. Property value has already dropped significantly. This sleepy, upscale neighborhood fears that the low-wages, and high volume of traffic through the neighborhood will ruin the once idyllic way of life for the residents. I think that they are right.

So sad

I'm surprised the RBC wasn't able to help their own on this one.