Does this seem like a hostile work environment?

[her209]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: threeringbinder
Wasn't the VP in the room when she got yelled at? Wouldn't that be a "hostile enviroment'?
making one feel dumb in front of others...or humiliation?

In employment law, if it isn't related to a protected characteristic, or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic, it is not a hostile work environment.

It isn't illegal to simply make someone feel dumb in front of others. Not in the slightest.

What about bullying?

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: threeringbinder
Wasn't the VP in the room when she got yelled at? Wouldn't that be a "hostile enviroment'?
making one feel dumb in front of others...or humiliation?

In employment law, if it isn't related to a protected characteristic, or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic, it is not a hostile work environment.

It isn't illegal to simply make someone feel dumb in front of others. Not in the slightest.

What about bullying?

No federal or state law making it illegal.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I guess I've dealt with too many unions which isn't the case here. I do think a case could be made regarding "life, liberty and, the pursuit of happiness" though.

WTF? No, no it couldn't. That has nothing to do with employment law.

Last I heard, the Constitution outweighs employment law.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I guess I've dealt with too many unions which isn't the case here. I do think a case could be made regarding "life, liberty and, the pursuit of happiness" though.

WTF? No, no it couldn't. That has nothing to do with employment law.

Last I heard, the Constitution outweighs employment law.

LOL. You quoted the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
I guess I've dealt with too many unions which isn't the case here. I do think a case could be made regarding "life, liberty and, the pursuit of happiness" though.

WTF? No, no it couldn't. That has nothing to do with employment law.

Last I heard, the DoI outweighs employment law.

Last I heard, no one is forcing you to work at a company where you don't feel comfortable working. Seriously, you are stretching.

 

[skyking]

Use this job as a stepping stone to a new one. Feel no remorse about using any company time to do your searching. Get new job and bail. If you can't give notice, don't sweat it. Assholes like that one are used to it

 

[Jeff7]

I believe that the thing to say, in the spirit of the thread, would be, "Fuck that," and leave.

 

[krylon]

Where the hell are the pics? This thread sucks.

 

[txrandom]

My boss said, "fuck em" while talking to me today. I agreed.

 

[iGas]

Quit

 

[Barfo]

Originally posted by: Newbian
Pics of said female friend?

This.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: threeringbinder

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: ArizonaSteve

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Does the situation suck? Yes. Is it a hostile work environment? No.

Why is this not a hostile work environment? It seems to me like the boss is trying to make her quit so he doesn't have to pay unemployment.

Document and record everything.

How does it seem like that to you? From what was posted, there is a boss who has anger outbursts but are not sexually offensive, nor directed at a protected class. Granted, the post doesn't really cover everything, but from what was presented, it does not rise to the level of hostile work environment.

It depends on what State the OP is in. You're right if it's a "right to work" State but, if not, verbal abuse does indeed constitute a 'hostile work place.'

No, the hostile work environment has to be related to a "protected characteristic" or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic. Simple verbal abuse does not constitute a hostile work environment.

Wasn't the VP in the room when she got yelled at? Wouldn't that be a "hostile environment'?
making one feel dumb in front of others...or humiliation?

You're mistaking the English phrase "hostile work environment" for the legal term "hostile work environment." I believe SacrosanctFiend is right - the boss is an asshole, but I don't think he's doing anything illegal.

Clearly the OP's friend should be looking for another job (not a fun thing to do right now). Whether she should do anything else depends on how willing she is to unexpectedly lose her job.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
No, the hostile work environment has to be related to a "protected characteristic" or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic. Simple verbal abuse does not constitute a hostile work environment.

Not true..

A hostile work environment is primarily a legal term used to describe a workplace situation where an employee cannot reasonably perform his work, due to certain behaviors by management or co-workers that are deemed hostile. Hostility in this form is not only a boss being rude, yelling, or annoying. It is very specific, especially in the legal setting when one is suing an employer for either wrongful termination or for creating an environment that causes severe stress to the employee.

There?s just a handful of ways in which you can define hostile work environment. Any act of sexual harassment on the part of bosses or co-workers can be viewed as hostile. Any act or remarks that are overtly discriminatory regarding age, race, gender, sexual orientation, or disability are also considered to create a hostile work environment.

The other way a hostile work environment may be defined is when a boss or manager begins to engage in a manner designed to make you quit in retaliation for your actions. Suppose you report safety violations at work, get injured at work, attempt to join a union, complain to upper level management about a problem at work, or act as a whistleblower in any respect. Then, the company?s response is to do all manner of things to make you quit, like writing you up for work rules you didn?t break, reducing your hours, scheduling you for hours that are in total conflict with what you can do, or reducing your salary. The company?s reaction can be viewed as creating a hostile work environment, one that makes it impossible to work and is an attempt to make you quit so that the employer does not have to pay unemployment benefits.

Lastly, overt hostility that threatens you physically are hostile work environments. If you really feel that you are at physical risk because of the behavior of another employee, specifically through violent behavior or threats of a violent nature, the employee?s manner is not only hostile but also potentially criminal.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: punkdork9
so to do a quick recap: i should look for a new job, all the while using the word F**k like it's going out of style, and then go out office space style.....i like it! :laugh:

do NOT do this...

When management fails to act appropriately, you can sue the company. Success in this type of lawsuit largely depends on not only how management failed to help but how you acted. If you respond with hostility in a hostile work environment, chances are your suit will be unsuccessful. Studies show that in court cases, your behavior is scrutinized just as carefully as management?s behavior.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
No, the hostile work environment has to be related to a "protected characteristic" or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic. Simple verbal abuse does not constitute a hostile work environment.

Not true..

A hostile work environment is primarily a legal term used to describe a workplace situation where an employee cannot reasonably perform his work, due to certain behaviors by management or co-workers that are deemed hostile. Hostility in this form is not only a boss being rude, yelling, or annoying. It is very specific, especially in the legal setting when one is suing an employer for either wrongful termination or for creating an environment that causes severe stress to the employee.

There?s just a handful of ways in which you can define hostile work environment. Any act of sexual harassment on the part of bosses or co-workers can be viewed as hostile. Any act or remarks that are overtly discriminatory regarding age, race, gender, sexual orientation, or disability are also considered to create a hostile work environment.

The other way a hostile work environment may be defined is when a boss or manager begins to engage in a manner designed to make you quit in retaliation for your actions. Suppose you report safety violations at work, get injured at work, attempt to join a union, complain to upper level management about a problem at work, or act as a whistleblower in any respect. Then, the company?s response is to do all manner of things to make you quit, like writing you up for work rules you didn?t break, reducing your hours, scheduling you for hours that are in total conflict with what you can do, or reducing your salary. The company?s reaction can be viewed as creating a hostile work environment, one that makes it impossible to work and is an attempt to make you quit so that the employer does not have to pay unemployment benefits.

Lastly, overt hostility that threatens you physically are hostile work environments. If you really feel that you are at physical risk because of the behavior of another employee, specifically through violent behavior or threats of a violent nature, the employee?s manner is not only hostile but also potentially criminal.

Noting that I already covered sexual harassment, protected classes and retaliatory actions (sorry for failing to mention threats), please show me where I was wrong in my previous statements with specific court cases, preferably those relating to simple verbal abuse that reached Circuit or above.

 

[guyver01]

As to what you SHOULD do...


I would bet the company has a legal department, or a lawyer at least.
I would speak with the lawyer and discuss your situation with them. Failing that... seek out a lawyer that specializes in Hostile Work Environment lawsuits.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: guyver01
As to what you SHOULD do...


I would bet the company has a legal department, or a lawyer at least.
I would speak with the lawyer and discuss your situation with them. Failing that... seek out a lawyer that specializes in Hostile Work Environment lawsuits.

What do you do for a living? If you say "Employment Attorney" please let me know your name and/or your firm's name so I never, ever hire you.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Noting that I already covered sexual harassment, protected classes and retaliatory actions (sorry for failing to mention threats), please show me where I was wrong in my previous statements with specific court cases, preferably those relating to simple verbal abuse that reached Circuit or above.

I'm not a lawyer, nor a HR representative... so i wouldnt even know where to begin to find 'case law' ... but as someone who did recently go thru a 3 day corporate provided "harassment training" .. Hostile Work Environment CAN be defined as a boss being rude, yelling, or annoying. . . it does NOT have to be just sexual in nature.

If you are a lawyer, or a HR Rep, then i challenge you to provide case law stating where a court ruled that being cursed at by an employer is 'acceptable' behavior.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend
Noting that I already covered sexual harassment, protected classes and retaliatory actions (sorry for failing to mention threats), please show me where I was wrong in my previous statements with specific court cases, preferably those relating to simple verbal abuse that reached Circuit or above.

I'm not a lawyer, nor a HR representative... so i wouldnt even know where to begin to find 'case law' ... but as someone who did recently go thru a 3 day corporate provided "harassment training" .. Hostile Work Environment CAN be defined as a boss being rude, yelling, or annoying. . . it does NOT have to be just sexual in nature.

If you are a lawyer, or a HR Rep, then i challenge you to provide case law stating where a court ruled that being cursed at by an employer is 'acceptable' behavior.

Wow...this is based on a 3 day corporate training...Jesus.

Your company may call "rude, yelling, or annoying" a hostile work environment, but I have yet to see a circuit court uphold a hostile work environment claim that wasn't based on sexual harassment, discrimination, or threats. In fact, I haven't seen one get passed a motion to dismiss.

Please note you are asking me to prove a situation that I've never even seen go to court. The burden is on you, bud.

 

[mjrpes3]

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: threeringbinder


Wasn't the VP in the room when she got yelled at? Wouldn't that be a "hostile enviroment'?
making one feel dumb in front of others...or humiliation?

In employment law, if it isn't related to a protected characteristic, or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic, it is not a hostile work environment.

It isn't illegal to simply make someone feel dumb in front of others. Not in the slightest.

Doesn't this vary somewhat from state to state?

I have been reading up and it is possible to get unemployment benefits if the employee can give proof the verbal abuse was persistent and that attempts to work with the employer to resolve the issue failed. Not sure which states this applies to. However it is an uphill battle to win and the verbal abuse must be of such a vicious and consistent pattern that the hostility of the environment is "self evident" and repeated attempts to rectify the situation with superiors failed. Also there must be substantial proof to back up this claim.

It would be best for her to check in with an attorney or an unemployment office and get their advice before totally giving up on this option.

As for leaving with "good cause" having to fall under a strict criteria (you mentioned "protected characteristic"), that reading seems to have failed in Washington state last year:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/20581589.html

 

[Rifter]

Originally posted by: sourceninja
If my boss ever says Fuck, I'll assume that it is an acceptable word to use in the office. I would then use the word fuck with every customer I delt with.

This.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: mjrpes3

Originally posted by: SacrosanctFiend

Originally posted by: threeringbinder


Wasn't the VP in the room when she got yelled at? Wouldn't that be a "hostile enviroment'?
making one feel dumb in front of others...or humiliation?

In employment law, if it isn't related to a protected characteristic, or in retaliation to filing a compliant based upon such a characteristic, it is not a hostile work environment.

It isn't illegal to simply make someone feel dumb in front of others. Not in the slightest.

Doesn't this vary somewhat from state to state?

I have been reading up and it is possible to get unemployment benefits if the employee can give proof the verbal abuse was persistent and that attempts to work with the employer to resolve the issue failed. Not sure which states this applies to. However it is an uphill battle to win and the verbal abuse must be of such a vicious and consistent pattern that the hostility of the environment is "self evident" and repeated attempts to rectify the situation with superiors failed. Also there must be substantial proof to back up this claim.

It would be best for her to check in with an attorney or an unemployment office and get their advice before totally giving up on this option.

As for leaving with "good cause" having to fall under a strict criteria (you mentioned "protected characteristic"), that reading seems to have failed in Washington state last year:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/20581589.html

I never addressed unemployment, nor did I address leaving with "good cause." I addressed the claim of "hostile work environment" as it pertains to employment law.

 

[RKS]

The first time I ever saw my boss he came into my office, stared at me for a few seconds and asked "Do you know what the fuck you are doing?" I told him I was "getting there". He stared for a few more seconds, shook his head, mumbled something, and walked out. I wasn't sure if I still had a job. :laugh:

 

[KMFJD]

I'd seriously start laughing at the president, he's obviously unstable as it is and would fire me because the vp farted in his office.

 

[BoomerD]

The profile shows Chicago. I don't know Illinois laws, but this sounds like a prime case for a hostile workplace lawsuit. Harrassment doesn't have to be outright sexual to be illegal, and (in Kahleeforneeya) the actions merely have to be "offensive to a reasonable person" and/or be unwanted.

If you don't mind taking the heat for other people's bullshit, and the job is otherwise good, blow it off. If not, contact the Illinois department of labor.

I had one job where my boss blew up at me in front of other people for a reason. (never because of my actions...just to make some vague point)
The first time he did it, I jacked him up against a wall and offered to kick his ass for talking to me that way..."If you can't speak to me like a man, stfu or fire me."
He laughed at me for taking him seriously :roll: then explained that it was his way of making a point to the dumb-fuck subcontractor we had to deal with...and for some odd reason, it always worked.
I told him that if being yelled at in public was part of my job, I wanted $2.50 over union scale. I got it.
(at that point, he didn't understand that I've been yelled at by MUCH better yellers than him...USMC drill instructors)

Anyway, no one should have to endure being yelled at...especially for stuff that's not their fault. Either find a new job, file a harrassment lawsuit (and find a new job) or endure it if the job is worth it.