Does this man deserve to die for his crime?

[HomerJS]

Lock for REPOST...

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2327392

Hey mods, what's up??? REPOST

 

[Incorruptible]

Hint: it has a lot to do with the victim being a white woman and the assailant being black. For many it helps people finally justify their views when it happens on camera.

The next time a non-white attacks a white instead of condemning the attack just pull the race card.

 

[lothar]

Hey mods, what's up??? REPOST

This thread is in P&N.
The other one you linked to is in OT.
What is the problem?

The thread you're linked to has 1/2 the posts there screaming "REPOST", the others contain pic of a woman and a mention about boobs.
There is nothing of substance there.

Why are you so eager to get this particular one locked up when this one is the more substantive of the two?
Again, what is the problem?

 

[Zebo]

get dogs big ones. ours start barking at stuff 1/4 mile away and go ape if anyone approaches house. most likly he picks someplace else if not GG

they not called mans best friend for nothing you know.


BTW ours are pussies, two labs who wouldn't even bite a fly on their ass and a cripple old shepherd but that does not stop early detection and deterrence they provide. Not to mention if you had two or three real protection dogs

 

[moonbogg]

Did you kill small animals for fun as a child? Something is seriously wrong with you.

Nope, I sure didn't. When I see something like this, I see my wife and my 3 year old (yes, I have one). This brings out the worst in me. Not only does the sight of this anger me, it sends me into a mode where I would do the worst to such a person. The worst that any human mind has ever thought of, men like this are deserving of it.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I find it fascinating that we have people advocating torture in this thread, which by the way is unconstitutional under the 8th amendment, not to mention barbaric, yet those people are not criticized. Instead, the one who "plays the race card" is being gang-criticized for speculating as to a racial motive. Even assuming he is totally wrong, there are far worse things than wrongfully alleging racism. Advocating unconstitutional and uncivilized punishment strikes me as one of them. Yet those opinions get a free pass here.

Really? So you are generalizing everyone based on "some people's" opinions in this thread. Nice tactic.

I'll go out an state that my view is similar to BurnItDwn's in this thread.

I do not trust the government to murder or kill people. However, had the homeowner been armed, I would trust somebody defending their own property or life to kill in defense if needed.

I wouldn't advocate that government take this scumbags life because in the end government is a complete fuckup and it would take far too much taxpayer money to get the job done right. However I do strongly hold the view that it would be a better solution to ensure that homeowners in similar cases are absolved of wrongdoing and they have the ability to take care of business for themselves in these situations. I certainly do not believe the lie that restricting or limiting their right to own firearms and their ability defend their property, themselves and their loved ones in these types of cases makes them or everyone else in society safer.

 

[woolfe9998]

Really? So you are generalizing everyone based on "some people's" opinions in this thread. Nice tactic.

Point to where I generalized. We have a range of opinions in this thread, but the most common have leaned toward draconian, anywhere from the death penalty for assault and battery to death by slow torture. I'm only concerned about the extreme opinions here. But I'm also concerned that people take the time to attack one person for "playing the race card" while they give people like Moonbogg a free pass when he advocates unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment. And the only person who criticized him (besides me) was the guy who gets attacked for playing the race card. It is neither unconstitutional nor barbaric to "play the race card." It is to torture.

It seems like a rather odd set of priorities to me.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Point to where I generalized. We have a range of opinions in this thread, but the most common have leaned toward draconian, anywhere from the death penalty for assault and battery to death by slow torture. I'm only concerned about the extreme opinions here. But I'm also concerned that people take the time to attack one person for "playing the race card" while they give people like Moonbogg a free pass when he advocates unconstitutionally cruel and unusual punishment. And the only person who criticized him (besides me) was the guy who gets attacked for playing the race card. It is neither unconstitutional nor barbaric to "play the race card." It is to torture.

It seems like a rather odd set of priorities to me.

You generalized when you suggested that everyone who criticized that inane comment held similar opinions on what should be the likely recourse for this incident. As for "setting" priorities on you well that is a nice way of deflecting from your original statement.

 

[woolfe9998]

You generalized when you suggested that everyone who criticized that inane comment held similar opinions on what should be the likely recourse for this incident. As for "setting" priorities on you well that is a nice way of deflecting from your original statement.

I didn't say that those who didn't criticize shared that view. That is something you think I implied, not something I said. My comment about priorities is not a deflection. It was my entire point.

The only "generalization" I would make here is that a pro-torture view appears to be more tolerated here than is any allegation of racism. The phenomenon I see is that we have a lot of "tough on crime" people around here. That is hardly arguable as the poll shows 2/3's agreeing with the death penalty for a non-lethal assault. While most probably don't agree with the torture, they are "tough on crime" nonetheless, so this view is tolerated because it is generally on the same side of their political fence. But calling someone a racist, well that's just something that dirty liberals do, and it must be stopped.

It's a good example of how ideology messes with people's priorities, to where a disgusting opinion is ignored but an opinion which may merely be incorrect is excoriated.

 

[JackBurton]

I don't blame him for speculating as to that motive. Perhaps he's wrong. However, it's hard to understand the bloodthirsty comments in this thread. Maybe it isn't racism at all, but rather sociopathy. Sociopaths wanting to see other sociopaths tortured all the while pretending to be on the side of morality.

I find it hard to believe how others can't understand why people are calling for this guy's head. So let me break this down for the 2 people that don't get it. I could not beat an innocent defenseless man. I just couldn't do it. And in this case, not only is this person beating an innocent woman, but he beats her unmercifully. He THEN throws her down stairs when she's pretty much unconscious. To me, that person no longer gets to be part of this world. He is an uncontrolled monster and needs to be disposed of. As for the torture, he tortured the lady and deserves to be paid back 10 fold. And race has nothing to do with it. It's as simple as that.

 

[soulcougher73]

Hint: it has a lot to do with the victim being a white woman and the assailant being black. For many it helps people finally justify their views when it happens on camera.

So what you are really saying is the scenario played out exactly as most people stereotyped? Shocker.

The truth is what it is. Doesnt matter the skin color in a beating like that on either end of it.

 

[OverVolt]

If he were white he would still be unfit for society you don't beat people like that. Life in Prison.

 

[Mursilis]

I find it hard to believe how others can't understand why people are calling for this guy's head. So let me break this down for the 2 people that don't get it. I could not beat an innocent defenseless man. I just couldn't do it. And in this case, not only is this person beating an innocent woman, but he beats her unmercifully. He THEN throws her down stairs when she's pretty much unconscious. To me, that person no longer gets to be part of this world. He is an uncontrolled monster and needs to be disposed of. As for the torture, he tortured the lady and deserves to be paid back 10 fold. And race has nothing to do with it. It's as simple as that.

I agree that this person has willfully voided his right to move freely in society for the rest of his days, but there's no need to kill him. Locking him away for the rest of his natural days is all I ask the state to accomplish. To echo what others have already stated, I neither desire nor trust the state to execute him.

 

[Jaskalas]

Oh boy...

First, I would require that the death penalty apply only to cases of direct evidence, and not circumstantial. This is clearly direct if we're able to ID the guy from the video. Once we're positive who he is, and a Jury agrees that he's guilty, then I allow such consideration.

Home Invasion with Aggravated Assault.
Death Penalty?

Yes, I think we can look into how this is appropriate in these cases. However, I can foresee a person in the home of another, without much evidence... and a fight breaks out. Then the guest, in his own defense, "ground and pounds" the owner, flees the house but is later IDed.

What do you have? A fight, Aggravated Assault... which happened to occur in your home, easy claims, and/or easy staging to make it appear like forced entry. Blam, a simple fight becomes a Death Penalty case.

We must be careful.

 

[kage69]

get dogs big ones. ours start barking at stuff 1/4 mile away and go ape if anyone approaches house. most likly he picks someplace else if not GG

they not called mans best friend for nothing you know.


BTW ours are pussies, two labs who wouldn't even bite a fly on their ass and a cripple old shepherd but that does not stop early detection and deterrence they provide. Not to mention if you had two or three real protection dogs

Always a good idea IMO. A canine determined to protect it's family is nothing to sneeze at (particularly with protection breeds). I don't care how badass you think you are, or how numb to pain drugs or booze have made you, all humans have an innate desire to not have big pointy teeth sink into their flesh. LEO K9 units inspire fear in perps for a reason. I can only hope any knucklehead thinking about pulling something like that gets the same kind of willies UPS and FedEx do when they make delivery at our place.


I made my wife watch the vid. After the disgust and shock wore off, she commented on how she's glad we have the dogs that we do. Went right on to ask when I could take her out for more shooting practice with her new .38 J frame. Made a point to tell me that her normal respect for life will go out the window if someone invades our home and threatens her or our boys.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I agree that this person has willfully voided his right to move freely in society for the rest of his days, but there's no need to kill him. Locking him away for the rest of his natural days is all I ask the state to accomplish. To echo what others have already stated, I neither desire nor trust the state to execute him.

I don't understand this reasoning. If we've already decided that taking him out of society for the rest of his natural life is acceptable, what we've essentially decided is to kill him without having to kill him. We're making it so that he is dead from society's perspective. The funny thing is that we really don't care about him enough to keep him alive. We're only stopping short of killing him because it makes us feel better about ourselves. I question whether this part of a logical moral structure or not.

You say there is no need to kill him. The thing I see no need for is keeping him alive. Discussions about whether the state should do that or not are a different matter. The key thing to remember is what we are trying to accomplish by imprisoning him. We're taking him out of the population forever. This clearly indicates that we've given up on his ever being a contributing member of society. What is the purpose of keeping him alive then? If all it really accomplishes is to somehow convince ourselves that we're better people, that's an enormous expenditure of resources over his lifetime to prop up a belief that I consider completely false. Life imprisonment and the death penalty are morally equal to my mind.

 

[HomerJS]

This thread is in P&N.
The other one you linked to is in OT.
What is the problem?

The thread you're linked to has 1/2 the posts there screaming "REPOST", the others contain pic of a woman and a mention about boobs.
There is nothing of substance there.

Why are you so eager to get this particular one locked up when this one is the more substantive of the two?
Again, what is the problem?

Its a repost.

 

[CitizenKain]

So apparently the righties on this forum are still confused with simple concepts and almost need to have pictures drawn for them in crayon. I'm not saying the crime is motivated by race, try to follow along here. What I'm saying is the reactions of people on here hoping he is tortured or murdered in a brutal fashion sure seem to be.

What I am saying is the crazy level of aggression against the assailant sure seems to be out of place for what is essentially assault. Yes its a terrible crime, I hope they catch him and he spends a long ass time in prison. Or if he ends up dead in a shootout with the police, or whatever I'm certainly not going to mourn his loss.

Hint: It could be because there is a video of what this guy did. There can be no doubt.

If this was a white man it'd probably the same response because of the video. But you go ahead an play that racist card you sorry piece of crap. It'd be great if this guy was to come to your house.

Next time you sober up long enough to post, save us the pain of having to read it.

 

[woolfe9998]

So apparently the righties on this forum are still confused with simple concepts and almost need to have pictures drawn for them in crayon. I'm not saying the crime is motivated by race, try to follow along here. What I'm saying is the reactions of people on here hoping he is tortured or murdered in a brutal fashion sure seem to be.

What I am saying is the crazy level of aggression against the assailant sure seems to be out of place for what is essentially assault. Yes its a terrible crime, I hope they catch him and he spends a long ass time in prison. Or if he ends up dead in a shootout with the police, or whatever I'm certainly not going to mourn his loss.



Next time you sober up long enough to post, save us the pain of having to read it.

I understand the need to find an explanation for the bloodthirsty attitudes we're seeing here, but there is no need to assume it has to do with race. We have people in other threads advocating a return of public execution. The most common attitude you see on this forum regarding criminal justice is vastly more draconian than our actual laws, which in turn are twice as severe as the laws in the rest of the civilized world. Death for a non-deadly assault is an extreme position but very common here. Torture is more extreme but not unheard of and is apparently quite well tolerated by most P&Ners in this thread regardless of the fact that it's unconstitutional. Extremely vengeful attitudes are not uncommon, regardless of the race of the perpetrator.

It's difficult to argue the other position because we have a video showing this man to be something akin to sub-human garbage. So when you're trying to argue for civility and the rule of the law, they will respond by alleging that you are trying to defend sub-human garbage. They don't get that the justice system reflects who we are, and we're supposed to be better than the criminals. They don't get it, and they'll never get it, regardless of race.

- wolf

 

[moonbogg]

I understand the need to find an explanation for the bloodthirsty attitudes we're seeing here, but there is no need to assume it has to do with race. We have people in other threads advocating a return of public execution. The most common attitude you see on this forum regarding criminal justice is vastly more draconian than our actual laws, which in turn are twice as severe as the laws in the rest of the civilized world. Death for a non-deadly assault is an extreme position but very common here. Torture is more extreme but not unheard of and is apparently quite well tolerated by most P&Ners in this thread regardless of the fact that it's unconstitutional. Extremely vengeful attitudes are not uncommon, regardless of the race of the perpetrator.

It's difficult to argue the other position because we have a video showing this man to be something akin to sub-human garbage. So when you're trying to argue for civility and the rule of the law, they will respond by alleging that you are trying to defend sub-human garbage. They don't get that the justice system reflects who we are, and we're supposed to be better than the criminals. They don't get it, and they'll never get it, regardless of race.

- wolf

People like this attacker need to be locked away forever or killed.

-Moonbogg

 

[Zebo]

I'd rather we straighten up our economy so large swaths of young men are not on the streets hustling/doing crimes during what should be work hours but that would require reversing 30 years of crap economics. He should be killed to stop threat but once threat is over no way. death for battery does not fit the crime IMO going way over eye for an eye even and people start shooting people for fights let alone state executing people for them.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I'd rather we straighten up our economy so large swaths of young men are not on the streets hustling/doing crimes during what should be work hours but that would require reversing 30 years of crap economics. He should be killed to stop threat but once threat is over no way. death for battery does not fit the crime IMO going way over eye for an eye even and people start shooting people for fights let alone state executing people for them.

Did you watch the video?

 

[sm625]

The problem with idiots passing judgement like this is that it is plainly unjust. Sure, you can assume that this lady didnt deserve it. I assumed that myself. You can assume she didnt sell his daughter to a child sex slavery ring. But you dont know that. And what if that was what happened? What if that lady had sold your child and you wanted to find out where they were, who she sold your child to, etc? What would that process look like on a video?

 

[moonbogg]

Did you watch the video?

I am mystified how people can watch that video and then beg for mercy on this guy. I almost wish I didn't watch it because now its got me all fucked up.

 

[woolfe9998]

Did you watch the video?

If you watch a video or see a photo of any violent crime, you're going to get riled up and possibly have a vengeful reaction. All violent crimes look ugly when seen first hand. Some are less severe than this, some much worse.

My parents had a friend, a very nice elderly man, whose wife had passed away and he was alone. Three thugs broke into his house, tied him to a chair, and played pinata with a baseball bat on his head and body. They struck him over 100 times and left him for dead. He died the next day.

Yes, there are worse crimes than what you saw in that video. Whether you saw it or not is immaterial to the severity of the crime, and shouldn't affect our judgment regarding punishment.