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Does this look justified? Pasco Police Shoot & Kill Man Throwing Rocks

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Screenshot of video clearly shows him without any rocks when the 3 cops where within tackling distance. Why they had to shoot him at this point, who knows?

“Fleeing from police and not following an officer’s command should not be sufficient for a person to get shot.”
Update at 2:41 p.m.: During a news conference on Wednesday afternoon, Pasco Police Chief Robert Metzger said two police officers were struck by rocks thrown by the suspect, Antonio Zambrano-Montes.
He said one of the rocks was as large as a softball. The officers were treated at the scene by medics.
He said officers tried to use a Taser on the man because of his “threatening behavior” toward police and citizens. He said the Taser had no effect.
Metzger said he did not know whether Zambrano-Montes was armed with anything other than rocks. He said he did now know whether a firearm was recovered from the scene.
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http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today...sco-police-reportedly-throwing-rocks-at-cars/
 
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rocks?

really?

amazing.

The three officers involved in the shooting were Officer Ryan Flanagan, a nine-year veteran assigned to patrol who is a traffic safety officer; Officer Adam Wright, an eight-year veteran assigned to patrol who is a firearms instructor and field training officer; and Officer Adrian Alaniz, a two-year veteran.
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one of the cops was a field training officer!

what are they training the trainers?

rocks are just dud grenades?
 
Ever been hit by a rock? It can cause some serious damage.

Keep in mind that a blow with a blunt object above the shoulders is considered lethal force under the law.
 
irishScott said:
Ever been hit by a rock? It can cause some serious damage.

Keep in mind that a blow with a blunt object above the shoulders is considered lethal force under the law.
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Can't be that lethal, plenty of people on this forum seem to have suffered this kind of injury.
 
this is what happens when you hire war vets to be cops, they think they can act like they are still in afghan/iraq and can just wantonly kill, just like that dude that shot chris kyle. they should ban vets from being cops
 
Given that rock throwing is the death penalty in some places, I can see how it can be justified in some instances.
 
Shooting before/as the first rock was thrown would have been justified, shooting after while he was running away was probably not unless he was aiming to throw from off camera. Shooting as the second rock was about to be thrown was justified.
 
OBLAMA2009 said:
this is what happens when you hire war vets to be cops, they think they can act like they are still in afghan/iraq and can just wantonly kill, just like that dude that shot chris kyle. they should ban vets from being cops
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No, it isn't. Are you mistaking the author of the news article's use of the word "veteran" to mean strictly military service?

In fact, now that I've had a minute to collect my thoughts I'd argue that the average war veteran probably has more training and restraint on rules of engagement and the employment of deadly force than the average, non-military veteran police officer. In a decade of warfare in urban environments we have been trained endlessly on how collateral damage, bad kills, and public perception just bring more death and heartache. Plus, many of us know what it is like to be shot at or to face that threat daily instead of a couple of times in an entire career.

More than likely these are career police officers who WISHED they went to war and are now trying to live like the "big boys" they look up to for some stupid reason. Especially that weapons instructor. He's probably the one begging management for lasers, thermal scopes, night vision, and grenade launchers because the Army wouldn't take his ass right out of high school. So, please think before you talk.
 
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If you are about to throw a softball-sized rock at me and I have a gun, guess what, I'm gonna shoot you and not feel one bit bad about it. Why should it be different for a law enforcement officer?

We pay them to do the dirty job of dealing with the violent dregs of society when they don't want to play nice. They are on the side of keeping order in our society.

If my choices are: A)let guy throw rocks at cops, or B)cops shoot rock thrower after he refuses to stop and a tazer is ineffective, I'm choosing B every time.

I'd rather see 100 people who want to throw rocks at cops shot then see a single cop take a rock to the head.

Edit: In the video, the fatal shots came as the guy stopped running, turned and squared up on the officers to throw another rock. The fatal shots were justified.

I couldn't really tell about the first shots before they crossed the street, and I am a bit amazed it took so many shots to stop the guy. I've trained a bit in police shoot/don't shoot simulators and understand it's hard to hit a suspect when you are trying to avoid getting hit yourself, but in a crowded place like that I would be very hesitant to shoot unless I was sure it was going to hit my target.
 
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Paladin3 said:
If my choices are: A)let guy throw rocks at cops, or B)cops shoot rock thrower after he refuses to stop and a tazer is ineffective, I'm choosing B every time.

I'd rather see 100 people who want to throw rocks at cops shot then see a single cop take a rock to the head.
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bingo :thumbsup:

if you throw rocks at anybody and die because of it, you had it coming
 
I think the mistake they perhaps made, was that they should have made much more effort, to taser (or pepper spray etc) him. I know they tried once, but they should have tried a few times more, unless the situation became too dangerous, in the meantime.
I've seen videos, where so many police simply rush at the man, and over-power him. They seemed to have enough police present, to try this.
Or at least try shooting his legs (or whatever the best way of disabling an attacker, for their future recovery).

But in slight fairness to the police, rocks (including softball sized ones), can kill/injure people in cars and/or standing/walking in the street.

The person involved (has to take a lot of the blame), and should have controlled himself in such a way, that he was NOT a menace to society/Police, forcing some kind of action.
I don't know if he was mentally ill/avoiding-arrest/drugs/Alcohol/etc ?

It is all too easy to come to the wrong conclusions, based on a shortish video, filmed at a particular angle. Because a lot of important information, such as the first 5/10/15 minutes of what happened, are missing, and may have an important bearing on what happened.
 
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First, a rock thrown at that distance wouldn't have enough velocity to be unavoidable. If those cops have their adrenaline going and all their senses turned on and tuned in, they'd easily duck or mitigate the force of anything thrown.

Here's a story from a peer of mine from an experience they had in Afghanistan, Kandahar province. As they were driving through a village, a teenaged male stepped out and threw a large rock that hit the MATV gunner in the face and caused bleeding and injury. The vehicle team leader had the truck stopped, jumped out and put a shotgun slug in the kid's chest. I'm told at that point, everything stopped and immediately the locals became enraged, including the father who had run to tend to his boy.

Imagine dad's surprise when his son was not lethally wounded, instead hit from 20 or so feet away with a rubber bullet from that shotgun. Realizing his son was alive and after realizing that his son had in fact thrown a rock needlessly, injuring that US Soldier, he grabbed the nearest stick and started beating his kid's ass and then apologized for his son's disrespect.

Point being, war vets today have had the luxury of less than lethal training equipment and the value in it. Lethal force is not required as much as it seems to be used today. Alternatives exist. They tried and failed with a Taser. They should have tried again and again or employed other tactics but they didn't. They went from "Oh shit, that Taser missed...fuck it, he's running, let's shoot at him!"

Can anyone give me the statistics on police officers killed by thrown rocks? Anyone? Bueller?
 
Seems extreme to me.

You could have just called the dog catcher and thrown a net over that twit.

Maybe he did something earlier I guess, got me.
 
MarkXIX said:
First, a rock thrown at that distance wouldn't have enough velocity to be unavoidable. If those cops have their adrenaline going and all their senses turned on and tuned in, they'd easily duck or mitigate the force of anything thrown.

Here's a story from a peer of mine from an experience they had in Afghanistan, Kandahar province. As they were driving through a village, a teenaged male stepped out and threw a large rock that hit the MATV gunner in the face and caused bleeding and injury. The vehicle team leader had the truck stopped, jumped out and put a shotgun slug in the kid's chest. I'm told at that point, everything stopped and immediately the locals became enraged, including the father who had run to tend to his boy.

Imagine dad's surprise when his son was not lethally wounded, instead hit from 20 or so feet away with a rubber bullet from that shotgun. Realizing his son was alive and after realizing that his son had in fact thrown a rock needlessly, injuring that US Soldier, he grabbed the nearest stick and started beating his kid's ass and then apologized for his son's disrespect.

Point being, war vets today have had the luxury of less than lethal training equipment and the value in it. Lethal force is not required as much as it seems to be used today. Alternatives exist. They tried and failed with a Taser. They should have tried again and again or employed other tactics but they didn't. They went from "Oh shit, that Taser missed...fuck it, he's running, let's shoot at him!"

Can anyone give me the statistics on police officers killed by thrown rocks? Anyone? Bueller?
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It's a good thing you were there so you know exactly what happened. 🙂
 
master_shake_ said:
how can a taser not be effective?

seriously has there ever been a case where it wasn't?
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A news article I read, said that only ONE of the (tasers) projectile prongs made contact with him, the other he pulled out of his arm (or something). Hence little/no electricity will flow, as you need BOTH connections to make a circuit, and "electrocute/stun" him.
 
MarkXIX said:
Can anyone give me the statistics on police officers killed by thrown rocks? Anyone? Bueller?
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One officer killed, or even injured, is one too many. Why the heck are we so eager to protect the lives of dirtbags?

"According to Franklin County Superior Court records, Zambrano-Montes had been arrested in January 2014 for assault on a police officer, although details were not immediately known. The court dockets shows he pleaded guilty in June and was arrested just last week, apparently for failing to appear at a court hearing. He was released from jail on Monday, the docket indicates."

Out of jail for two days and he's in trouble again for throwing rocks at passing cars and the police officers sent to stop him. When they pull guns on him he keeps throwing rocks. They try to taze him but it doesn't work. Even after they shoot at him, apparently hitting him once, he retreats across the road, but then stops and turns to throw more rocks at the cops. If he had just stopped and surrendered he would be alive today.

We don't need people like this in our society. We don't need to allow him to strike cops with rocks. He's not worth the level of compassion and outrage shown by the protesters who are out having candlelight vigils to mourn his passing.

The human spirit is one of the greatest things in the universe. When I see people caring for and loving one another it makes my heart warm. When I see criminals and evil people taking advantage of others, or just not willing to play nice, I don't see the benefit of protecting their lives over the lives of the the cops we send to deal with them.
 
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