Does the Libertarian Party support PROSTITUTION??

[Blackhawk2]

<<...Right &amp; wrong, Good &amp; evil, every knows the difference between the two. People make choices based on Good (right) &amp; Evil (wrong),in the life they choose to live everyday.>>

lhampel, not everything fits into a good or evil classification. Evil is where man puts it. Example, take a look a the US election, both sides say the other side is trying to steal the election. Right and wrong, Good and Evil are only there if they fit your point of view.

 

[Futuramatic]

Services cannot be taxed. You get your truck fixed, they tax you on parts alone (at least in Indiana), so unless you got to take a piece of her with you, that would not work.

Prostitution.... It seems like it would degrade society... SEEMS that way. I dunno if it would or not, but it is not a chance that I would be willing to take (personally).

 

[BoberFett]

Isla

Is it a trait of a real man to label people &quot;morons&quot; when they disagree with him? Rather than answer the questions placed before him in a rational, logical manner, a real man resort to emotional attacks and name calling?

Yeah, real big man.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Ahh, but they pay me for my mind, not my body. Quite a difference there.




fdisk,


You say this has been a good debate, I think this &quot;debate&quot; went to hell with this post:

<<...alot of them have suffered unspeakable traumas that led them to the place they are now.>>

Maybe but most probably just wanted to have sex.

If you believe that, then you know nothing of women. Any woman would tell you the same. So, if you are going to agree with that statement, then expect to be called a moron.

fdisk, don't take it personally though. I'm still freaked out and distraught over the NOWHEREMOM thing, and I might be taking some of it out on you.

~Regards.

 

[BoberFett]

I just can't respond fast enough today.

<< Right &amp; wrong, Good &amp; evil, every knows the difference between the two >>

Right and wrong are subjective, only crazy religious zealots see a sharp line between the two. And they're always on the right side, too.

 

[BoberFett]

DaBoneHead

Perhaps in your field, your mind is what's more valuable. But millions of people working in factories all day don't have to think. They just repeat the same physical task over and over. Are they prostitutes? They're selling their body. The difference is that they're selling access to their arms and legs rather than their genitals. Are sexual organs sacred?

 

[fdiskboy]

And obviously that was a joke. (I'm hoping ????)

I have reiterated that I do not condone or like prostitution in any way shape or form. (The same holds true for cigarettes, I might add)

I think most everyone here ignored that statement. I did anyway. I was trying to focus on the actual discussion taking place.

NOWHEREMOM? I must have missed something.

Isla,
You can ask my wife if I'm a gentleman. I'm not sure what she'd say. Depends on the day I guess. I don't have a problem with you saying you like some one. However, the inference was that everyone who disagreed with DaBonehead wasn't a real man. That's just the way it appeared. If I got it wrong, I apologize.

 

[Optimus]

OK, quick check back in between meetings:

DaBoneHead - although you made good points, your post sounded like attacking, and it doesn't need that. Even though I disagree with BoberFett, BalckHawk2, and Fdiskboy on this topic, we can all debate it civilly...

BoberFett - comparing it to regular jobs really doesn't work. We have a lot of laws governing working, which is why unlike prostitution, you can't be forced by your job to lose any of your liberty, health, or (within reason and when possible) safety. If your company tries to make you do something you shouldn't (and I mean really shouldn't) have to do, you might not feel able to tell them where to stick it. If its the only job you have or feel you can have (like prostitution can be for a prostitute) then you need society to stop that happening to you. A woman having to sell her body and me writing code all day are not the same thing at all.

Fdiskboy: To keep any hope of this debate staying on topic and civil, I think we'll need to leave drugs and abortion out of it.
Also - I think you and BoberFett may agree that it is bad, but should be legal... but some of the other posts make me wonder if everyone here does think its bad!

 

[Isla]

<< Are sexual organs sacred? >>



Mine are, and should be worshipped accordingly.

 

[DaBoneHead]

Bober,


If you support a position that would degrade women, and very likely endanger them, then expect to be called a moron. What's a matter? You are supposed to be a family man... Would you say you support family values? Where does prostitution fit in with family values...


Oh, don't get bent out of shape about the word &quot;moron&quot;, I could have called you much worse, however, that word seemed appropriate at the time. If I threw in an extra &quot;m&quot;, I could have called you a &quot;mormon&quot;, would that have made it all better?

 

[nd]

This thread is interesting because I haven't seen a single valid argument for keeping prostitution illegal.

Lots of excellent points made on the legalization side, with merely anecdotal stories of how &quot;prostitution is sad&quot; on the other side. (Isla, I'm not talking to you, because you thankfully didn't make any judgement yet on whether or not it should be legal).

Like Bober said, the issue isn't whether or not prostitution is bad, but whether or not the government should make it illegal.

 

[Isla]

<< However, the inference was that everyone who disagreed with DaBonehead wasn't a real man. That's just the way it appeared. If I got it wrong, I apologize. >>



Sorry it appeared that way. For the record, I would never judge anyone solely based on my experiences with them on a discussion board! DaBoneHead gets my seal of approval based on 'real world' criteria.

Peace!

 

[Blackhawk2]

<<...comparing it to regular jobs really doesn't work. We have a lot of laws governing working, which is why unlike prostitution, you can't be forced by your job to lose any of your liberty, health, or (within reason and when possible) safety>>

How about working in the armed forces? If your not forced to lose your liberty, health and/or safety your called a traitor and shot in the back.

 

[Optimus]

BoberFett - if there is no definite right or wrong, how can we know anything? How can we have any rules, or decisions, or laws, or society?

There is right and there is wrong. Sometimes we just can't tell (too close), or what we are looking at is too mixed or &quot;grey area&quot;.

But believe me, good and evil exist, and they are definite.

I just think there are very few things that neatly fit completely on either side. So if by &quot;subjective&quot; you mean that things can contain amounts of good and amounts of bad at the same time, and that different people regard the good or the evil in different degrees of importance, and that little to nothing is totally one or the other, then we are agreed.

But if you think good and evil are all up to how we feel at the time, then there is no point to anything.



OK - I really need to work now! Argh!

 

[DaBoneHead]

For those of you who PMd me on &quot;who is NOWHEREMOM&quot;, well here she is.


NOWHEREMOM


I was going through the anandtech gallery and came across her. This is really sad, and will likely ruin your day if you go there. Tragedy like that shouldn't happen to people like her (or anyone, for that matter). Then I came to this thread and saw what I perceived as someone dis'ing women, and it just set me off. I'm practically ballistic as compared to my normal equanimity.

There is a link to her threads that she posted some time ago... I wish I was an ATOT then, but more I wish someone like that was still with us.

 

[fdiskboy]

DaBoneHead,

Should Pornography be illegal as well? It also degrades women.

Should anything degrading be illegal? How about blonde jokes?

No one has the right NOT to be degraded. They have the right to pursue happiness and that's about it. Note, this is not the right to be happy. It is the right to try to be happy.

Again. I don't support the wretched business. But if the government sticks its grubby paws here, next it'll be smoking (oh wait...), alcohol (oh wait), your pocket (oh wait), your seatbelt (oh wait), what foods you eat (it's coming next), .....the list won't end, I promise you that.

 

[Blackhawk2]

If there is a right and/or a wrong, why do so many people disagree?

 

[Optimus]

nd:

Thank-you for dismissing an entire side of a debate with a wave of your hand. I'm sorry I've spent the afternoon dishing up nothing but sad anecdotes and that you have judged my arguments as not valid.



Any reasons?


And I AM arguing the legality, based on the liberties the U.S. is founded on and the rights of the individual. I am for the government mostly keeping the heck out of our lives, but I am also for it stepping in as an instrument of society, including to protect women from a destructive &quot;industry&quot;. I think that the women should be given every help to get out of it, that Johns should be discouraged from using it by the weight of the law, and that it should NEVER be a &quot;respected and legal industry/trade.&quot;

 

[BoberFett]

Optimus

<< comparing it to regular jobs really doesn't work. We have a lot of laws governing working, which is why unlike prostitution, you can't be forced by your job to lose any of your liberty, health, or (within reason and when possible) safety. If your company tries to make you do something you shouldn't (and I mean really shouldn't) have to do, you might not feel able to tell them where to stick it. If its the only job you have or feel you can have (like prostitution can be for a prostitute) then you need society to stop that happening to you. A woman having to sell her body and me writing code all day are not the same thing at all. >>

Here's where you're just strengthening my point. If prostitution were legalized, then those same laws that protect workers now would apply towards prostitutes. Things like benefits, vacation, working conditions, and other workers rights would apply to prostitutes. The only thing that making it illegal does is make life even harder for someone whose life is already hard enough. Do you get my point?

 

[nd]

<< Thank-you for dismissing an entire side of a debate with a wave of your hand. I'm sorry I've spent the afternoon dishing up nothing but sad anecdotes and that you have judged my arguments as not valid. >>


You're welcome, because that's precisely how simple it is.




<< And I AM arguing the legality, based on the liberties the U.S. is founded on and the rights of the individual. >>


Like the right to prostitute yourself? (and I use the term very loosely -- tons of women &quot;prostitute&quot; themselves who aren't prostitutes by career). How can you support making it illegal while at the same time preaching liberties and rights of the individual?



<< I am for the government mostly keeping the heck out of our lives, but I am also for it stepping in as an instrument of society, including to protect women from a destructive &quot;industry&quot;. I think that the women should be given every help to get out of it, that Johns should be discouraged from using it by the weight of the law, and that it should NEVER be a &quot;respected and legal industry/trade.&quot; >>


This argument contains zero factual insight, only a political opinion that it's the government's responsibility to &quot;protect&quot; them from this industry. Fair enough, you're entitled to believe that. I personally don't want the government &quot;protecting&quot; me from something by banning it. Protecting != bannishment. But, you know what? All of this is still irrelevent and invalid because you have your wish. Prostitution is illegal. It's still a problem, and it being illegal hasn't protected these women from anything. If you really want protection, I suggest you should argue for regulation alongside legalization of prostitution.

So, essentially, my question is: How does making prostitution illegal &quot;protect&quot; women from this lifestyle?

 

[kassy]

<< (and I use the term very loosely -- tons of women &quot;prostitute&quot; themselves who aren't prostitutes by career) >>



nd - would you care to elaborate on that statement ?

 

[konichiwa]

kassy

&quot;Honey, feel like doing the horizontal tango tonight?&quot;

&quot;You're going to buy me those diamond earrings for christmas, right?&quot;

&quot;Of course...&quot;

 

[Napalm381]

The line of reasoning offered by the opponents of legalization here seems to be &quot;because prostitution leads to drug abuse, murder, etc, it is illegal.&quot; I, and presumably the other proponents of it, see it the other way around- the illegality of it is the cause of the negative aspects.

In the LEGAL brothels of Nevada (in case you didn't know, yes, they do exist), most of the problems listed here by opponents are not a problem. The women have regular medical checkups, for both their own safety and the safety of their clients. Streetwalking is illegal, you may only employ the services of a prostitute in a licensed facility. Condoms are required.

If we made prostitution legal and had such regulations on it, I think a lot of the problems associated with it would rapidly decrease. Physical abuse would most likely decline, due to the controlled environment of the brothel. STDs would become less of a problem due to condom usage and regular medical checkups.

 

[kassy]

konichiwa- sorry honey, I have a headache and I dont like diamonds !!



I guess that makes most men &quot;johns&quot; then ?

 

[BoberFett]

koni

Bingo.