LOL Napalm.
I'm certainly not a supporter of prostitution, but I think the legalization argument does make sense in some respects.
In others, I find it distasteful, for women are most certainly affected badly by prostitution (those who practice it). However, I still believe it is not the government's business to protect one from oneself. Nor is it the government's responsibility to tell you which job/profession you pursue for any reason--unless it violates someone else's rights to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness.
Anyone engaging in the human slave trade (and it still exists in various forms) should be shot, I don't think many would disagree with that. However, just remember that many of the foreign products we buy are made using child labor overseas. Where do we draw the line? Do we allow government to decide everything?
Just some more random thoughts.
I'm certainly not a supporter of prostitution, but I think the legalization argument does make sense in some respects.
In others, I find it distasteful, for women are most certainly affected badly by prostitution (those who practice it). However, I still believe it is not the government's business to protect one from oneself. Nor is it the government's responsibility to tell you which job/profession you pursue for any reason--unless it violates someone else's rights to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness.
Anyone engaging in the human slave trade (and it still exists in various forms) should be shot, I don't think many would disagree with that. However, just remember that many of the foreign products we buy are made using child labor overseas. Where do we draw the line? Do we allow government to decide everything?
Just some more random thoughts.
<<Can anyone tell me why it is a right and good thing?>>
It hasn't been proven yet but it would probably decrease the number of violent rapes that occur every year.
It hasn't been proven yet but it would probably decrease the number of violent rapes that occur every year.
Optimus,
I think the distinction is again that the things you mention all either violate or very likely will violate someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
I think the distinction is again that the things you mention all either violate or very likely will violate someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
<< A lot of people think that drunk driving, robbery, assault, etc... are wrong. Do we impose that view on everyone? >>
These activities all have direct effects on other people. If I drink alcohol, does that affect you (assuming I do not drive drunk and such). If I smoke a cigarette in my house, how does that affect you?
Further more, I would venture that over 99 percent of the population is against things like robbery, assault, murder, etc, and agrees it should be illegal. Do 99 percent support banning smoking, alcohol, etc? I don't think so.
EDIT: fdiskboy put it more succintly
<<blackhawk2, you are not worth spit.>>
I don't care what you think DaBoneHead. In my mind I'm worth a hell of a lot more than your worthless post.
I don't care what you think DaBoneHead. In my mind I'm worth a hell of a lot more than your worthless post.
<< I think the distinction is again that the things you mention all either violate or very likely will violate someone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. >>
I know - I think that in a way, prostitution violates the latter 2, and endangers needlessly the first. Also, many other laws govern things like tax evasion and such and are even harder to match to the above 3 criteria.
Blackhawk2:
<< Its wrong (in some peoples minds) to drink and drive but people still do it. Its wrong to do many things but people still do them. >>
Again, that people do it does not make it right.
<< If I had a daughter and she was over 18 years of age and chose that line of work, I sure as heck would still love her for who she is. If he was over 18 and chose to use those services I would also still love him for who he is. Even though I wouldn't agree with their choices I would still love them for who they are. >>
Yessss.... I don't think that anyone is saying not to love them. Just that that particular action isn't good or good for them.
<< It hasn't been proven yet but it would probably decrease the number of violent rapes that occur every year. >>
Ummm... are you seriously saying that prostitution being illegal is a cause of rape???
Blackhawk2,
The questions were not: Would you continue to love your children if the enguage in prostitution.
But:
Would you want your daughter to "work" as a prostitute?
Would you want your son to use the "services" of a prostitute?
The questions were not: Would you continue to love your children if the enguage in prostitution.
But:
Would you want your daughter to "work" as a prostitute?
Would you want your son to use the "services" of a prostitute?
Optimus,
If someone feels that being a prostitute violates one or more of their rights, they should feel free not to be one. Again, if they are being forced to be one, the violator should be shot. For those that would respond by saying economic circumstances "force" that choice, I say horse-hockey. The decision to flip burgers instead of selling your body may be a tough decision, but it is yours to make. Don't expect someone else to make it easy for you because you "need" more money to live.
Again, the Constitution grants each individual rights. It does not give you the right to decide what I do has violated MY rights and thus must be stopped. Only when what I do violates ANOTHER's rights may the government step in.
Tax evasion is something else entirely. And you may notice that Libertarians are opposed to income taxes as well.
Keep the thoughts coming. I think this is a very good debate we have going. My compliments!
If someone feels that being a prostitute violates one or more of their rights, they should feel free not to be one. Again, if they are being forced to be one, the violator should be shot. For those that would respond by saying economic circumstances "force" that choice, I say horse-hockey. The decision to flip burgers instead of selling your body may be a tough decision, but it is yours to make. Don't expect someone else to make it easy for you because you "need" more money to live.
Again, the Constitution grants each individual rights. It does not give you the right to decide what I do has violated MY rights and thus must be stopped. Only when what I do violates ANOTHER's rights may the government step in.
Tax evasion is something else entirely. And you may notice that Libertarians are opposed to income taxes as well.
Keep the thoughts coming. I think this is a very good debate we have going. My compliments!
Napalm: I think prostitution has a very direct and negative effect on the people involved. And as for drinking and smoking, ummm - no I don't think they should be illegal... as you said, they don't harm people too badly when done responsibly. The difference is I believe prostitution does.
And for the %99 thing, I'm not sure we can have that as a deciding factor in what is illegal - I'll bet %2 of the poulation are anarchists!
And for the %99 thing, I'm not sure we can have that as a deciding factor in what is illegal - I'll bet %2 of the poulation are anarchists!
Obviously, I think it's clear that no one would choose prostitution as a lifestyle for their child.
However, we also don't want our children to be fat, lazy, stupid, crazy, disrespectful, or hypocritical. You raise your children the best you can, and then you love them no matter what happens. We can't criminalize every behavior or profession we don't want our children involved in. Bookie, drug-dealer, lawyer, bartender...
However, we also don't want our children to be fat, lazy, stupid, crazy, disrespectful, or hypocritical. You raise your children the best you can, and then you love them no matter what happens. We can't criminalize every behavior or profession we don't want our children involved in. Bookie, drug-dealer, lawyer, bartender...
<<Would you want your daughter to "work" as a prostitute?
Would you want your son to use the "services" of a prostitute?>>
No and no. Now let me ask a retorical question.
Would you want your son or daughter to go to war and most probably die defending our freedom?
Just because we don't want something to happen doesn't mean it isn't necessary for the good of the whole.
Would you want your son to use the "services" of a prostitute?>>
No and no. Now let me ask a retorical question.
Would you want your son or daughter to go to war and most probably die defending our freedom?
Just because we don't want something to happen doesn't mean it isn't necessary for the good of the whole.
Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it should be illegal. We have the right not to do that thing.
Again, it comes down to my actions affecting another's rights or their actions affecting my rights.
Again, it comes down to my actions affecting another's rights or their actions affecting my rights.
fdiskboy - yes, I'm pleasantly surprised at the overall nature of this debate, so far its mostly just good old debating!
For the rights thing, I would still hold that there are plenty of legitimate laws that don't deal directly with those 3 liberties, but to address them as well, I hold that "Johns" violate the woman's liberties - exchanged for money or not. Just as someone can't offer to let another person take away thier right to live for money!
Bober - if it has turned away potential "users", then it has helped them. But our current solution is flawed - we need to help the women a lot more.
For the rights thing, I would still hold that there are plenty of legitimate laws that don't deal directly with those 3 liberties, but to address them as well, I hold that "Johns" violate the woman's liberties - exchanged for money or not. Just as someone can't offer to let another person take away thier right to live for money!
Bober - if it has turned away potential "users", then it has helped them. But our current solution is flawed - we need to help the women a lot more.
Would I want them to defend our freedom? YES.
Would I want them to die? NO
Would I be proud of them if they did? YOU BET.
But anyway, the whole "what we want our children to do" thing is not part of my argument against prostitution. Mine is based on the fact that it victimizes women, and that selling liberties is generally not a good thing.
Would I want them to die? NO
Would I be proud of them if they did? YOU BET.
But anyway, the whole "what we want our children to do" thing is not part of my argument against prostitution. Mine is based on the fact that it victimizes women, and that selling liberties is generally not a good thing.
Optimus,
I'd agree that most laws do not address those three basic freedoms--although others are spelled out in the bill of rights.
However, you have to remember, Libertarians believe that we could dispose of all laws except those which deal with violations of rights, with very few exceptions.
I'd agree that most laws do not address those three basic freedoms--although others are spelled out in the bill of rights.
However, you have to remember, Libertarians believe that we could dispose of all laws except those which deal with violations of rights, with very few exceptions.
Isla -
<< Heck, vibrators are much more convenient and you can imagine that they are really good looking and not your average skaggy john.... >>
Yeah, but a vibrator doesn't have that protein enriched filling ...
You taken anymore bikini pics lately? The one you sent me is stiff and sticky now and I really need a fresh one ...
<< Heck, vibrators are much more convenient and you can imagine that they are really good looking and not your average skaggy john.... >>
Yeah, but a vibrator doesn't have that protein enriched filling ...
You taken anymore bikini pics lately? The one you sent me is stiff and sticky now and I really need a fresh one ...
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
I'll ask again, since people skimmed right over it.
Assume that the prostitute chooses to be one. We've already covered that fact that if a woman is forced to be one, then the pimp is the criminal, not the woman.
How is going to a prostitute any different than picking up a woman at a bar for a one night stand? The man and woman are both there by choice. Sex is involved. Love is not. The only difference is that money is exchanged with the prostitute.
Tell me where the crime is.
Assume that the prostitute chooses to be one. We've already covered that fact that if a woman is forced to be one, then the pimp is the criminal, not the woman.
How is going to a prostitute any different than picking up a woman at a bar for a one night stand? The man and woman are both there by choice. Sex is involved. Love is not. The only difference is that money is exchanged with the prostitute.
Tell me where the crime is.
Have any of you thought about this...
Why is prostitution illegal? yet Pornography (xxx videos, ect..) is legal?
Seems to me like all some "Paying Customer" would need is a camcorder & if caught just proclaim that his (or her) right to freedom of speach was violated. (& pursuit of happiness)
Blackhawk2, since you answered "No" to my questions...then you must think there is something wrong with prostitution. (?)
Please explain,
Why is prostitution illegal? yet Pornography (xxx videos, ect..) is legal?
Seems to me like all some "Paying Customer" would need is a camcorder & if caught just proclaim that his (or her) right to freedom of speach was violated. (& pursuit of happiness)
Blackhawk2, since you answered "No" to my questions...then you must think there is something wrong with prostitution. (?)
Please explain,
- Oct 28, 1999
- 62,484
- 8,345
- 126
I'd like to see a chart showing what countries legalize prostitution, and what the murder rates/violent crime numbers are in those countries.
Then, I'd like to see what the murder rates/violent crime rates are in countries that legalize prosition.
Then, I'd like to see what the murder rates/violent crime rates are in countries that legalize prosition.
Hmmmmm....
All of you who have sticky pictures of me, pay up!
j/k, j/k!!!!!!!
edit: I just knew that would come back to haunt me!
All of you who have sticky pictures of me, pay up!
j/k, j/k!!!!!!!
edit: I just knew that would come back to haunt me!
I don't see how anyone can claim that prostitution victimizes women. Each woman has a choice to be, or not to be, a whore. It's as simple as that...
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