Does the average person's comprehension of WiFi freak you out sometimes?

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: irishScott
Not really. Go to any residential area and connect to all of the open networks named "linksys". Then access 192.168.1.1, enter "admin" for both username and password. 9/10 times, you're in. Could wreck some serious havoc from there, especially if their computer is as unsecured as their router; and people wonder how their identity just got stolen. :roll:

The real question is why do the people who DO know what they are doing (ie the people who manufacture and sell the WiFi products) leave the thing unsecured by default. Why is it left to the average Joe to try and figure out which security method to use and how to use it properly?

At ATOT we love to make fun of people with less knowledge than us. But we then turn around and make products that rely on the average person to do the critical portion of the legwork instead of building our products secure from the start.

Because people would get locked out of their own devices, and that means tech support.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'd hazard a guess most all of ATOT doesn't know much about wireless networking. Even people that work with technology seem to not even understand the basics. (how many times have you seen technology people "point" omni-directional antennas at each other?)

As far as security - plenty of ways to build very large, very secure wireless networks.

I'd love to see your average ATOT'er bend an AK flat, or overhaul an engine, or test soil and add appropriate fertilizers etc etc etc.

Point is its easy to look at technologies in our industry then laugh at others outside of it. I'm sure mechanics get a fine laugh out of the majority of the posters here when they bring the car in because it goes "grrrr GRRRR grrrr" when they drive too.

By and large people dont really have much desire to learn something they dont need to. They know "plug it in and it works" and thats goood enough for them. I'm not saying thats right or not, its simply how it is.

Theres always someone who knows something you dont. To use ones own area of expertise as the measure by which others are judged is foolish to say the least.

I understand that. But you can even see it in most of the postings in this thread. They think they understand something, laugh at others, but don't.even understand the technology or how to use it.

It's the irony of it all that I was alluding to.

 

[acheron]

Originally posted by: boomhower
They do have a new security set-up scheme coming out that should help with new purchases. My father in-law bought a new Linksys router that has a push button security set-up. Evidently notebooks/media extenders/etc. are supposed to be coming out with a corresponding button. Mash the two at the same time and walla, secure network. How well this works I have no idea. Will it catch on, no clue. But if it actually works it is a step in the right direction but all the legacy stuff is going to be screwed.

But it really is not that hard to turn on WEP.

And not all that helpful either, since WEP can be cracked in about 30 seconds.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'd hazard a guess most all of ATOT doesn't know much about wireless networking. Even people that work with technology seem to not even understand the basics. (how many times have you seen technology people "point" omni-directional antennas at each other?)

As far as security - plenty of ways to build very large, very secure wireless networks.

I'd love to see your average ATOT'er bend an AK flat, or overhaul an engine, or test soil and add appropriate fertilizers etc etc etc.

Point is its easy to look at technologies in our industry then laugh at others outside of it. I'm sure mechanics get a fine laugh out of the majority of the posters here when they bring the car in because it goes "grrrr GRRRR grrrr" when they drive too.

By and large people dont really have much desire to learn something they dont need to. They know "plug it in and it works" and thats goood enough for them. I'm not saying thats right or not, its simply how it is.

Theres always someone who knows something you dont. To use ones own area of expertise as the measure by which others are judged is foolish to say the least.

I understand that. But you can even see it in most of the postings in this thread. They think they understand something, laugh at others, but don't.even understand the technology or how to use it.

It's the irony of it all that I was alluding to.

Absolutely. I agree with you, and dont mean you as in you specifically but in a more general sense.

Personally I know JUST enough about wireless to get it set up and secure enough to keep out the "Hey look an open network!" crowd. I dont bother going beyond that because is they really want into my network they will get in.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: TallBill
I don't talk to average people.

you are right, the army is noted for "below average"

 

[FP]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: TallBill
I don't talk to average people.

you are right, the army is noted for "below average"

zing!

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: TallBill
I don't talk to average people.

you are right, the army is noted for "below average"

Oh....








snap.

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
I grabbed a handful of netbooks off Dell's outlet, and have resold a handful to friends at work, making a whopping $20 or so...

Anyway, I'll ask them if they have WiFi, nearly everyone says "Yes, I have WiFi @ home." and when I dig a little deeper, they typically say they have a notebook with a WiFi card, but they don't have a wireless router, and they have their notebook plugged directly into their modem.

people i know are convinced that wifi is so unsecure that even having a wireless component to your network makes it easily accessible to all.

so...

how secure is wpa2-psk, w/ a 60 char long passphrase, mac filtering, and a non-broadcasting network id?

 

[Strk]

Most people don't have much of a need to know much about it. There are security issues because if it though (secure my connection; what do you mean? It's plugged in securely!)

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Fayd


how secure is wpa2-psk, w/ a 60 char long passphrase, mac filtering, and a non-broadcasting network id?

No more secure than WPA2-psk with a 20 char complex passphrase, ssid broadcast with no mac filtering.

 

[vshah]

all this security is nonsense. does no-one recall that some guy was able to pick up keystrokes just from the electromagnetic signals from a KEYBOARD?

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Not really. Go to any residential area and connect to all of the open networks named "linksys". Then access 192.168.1.1, enter "admin" for both username and password. 9/10 times, you're in. Could wreck some serious havoc from there, especially if their computer is as unsecured as their router; and people wonder how their identity just got stolen. :roll:

I am entirely competent when it comes to computers, and my wireless network is completely open, called "default" and I'm pretty sure the password is admin/admin.

Tell me, what serious havoc can be done with this?

And seeing how you'd probably need to be sitting on my front steps to do this, I don't see how it is a problem.

Having unsecured wifi is nowhere near the top of the list of ways to get your identity stolen.

Though, if I lived in an apartment building, I'd be a bit more inclined to secure things.

 

[rh71]

to be fair, it's more difficult to understand than say... basic car maintenance.

 

[Oyeve]

I hate that most old people who have a wifi router always get Linksys and pronounce it LINK-SKI.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: irishScott
Not really. Go to any residential area and connect to all of the open networks named "linksys". Then access 192.168.1.1, enter "admin" for both username and password. 9/10 times, you're in. Could wreck some serious havoc from there, especially if their computer is as unsecured as their router; and people wonder how their identity just got stolen. :roll:

I am entirely competent when it comes to computers, and my wireless network is completely open, called "default" and I'm pretty sure the password is admin/admin.

Tell me, what serious havoc can be done with this?

And seeing how you'd probably need to be sitting on my front steps to do this, I don't see how it is a problem.

Having unsecured wifi is nowhere near the top of the list of ways to get your identity stolen.

Though, if I lived in an apartment building, I'd be a bit more inclined to secure things.

whats the point? It would tak ~5 minutes for a computer literate person to turn on security, so why even risk it?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ducci

I am entirely competent when it comes to computers, and my wireless network is completely open, called "default" and I'm pretty sure the password is admin/admin.

Tell me, what serious havoc can be done with this?

And seeing how you'd probably need to be sitting on my front steps to do this, I don't see how it is a problem.

Having unsecured wifi is nowhere near the top of the list of ways to get your identity stolen.

Though, if I lived in an apartment building, I'd be a bit more inclined to secure things.

With a directional antenna I don't have to be on your front steps. From there I can do just about anything I want with your traffic and information. Direct you to me for everything or capture everything or just take what I wanted from other machines. That's probably the easiest way to steal identity, through an open wireless network.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: irishScott
Or we could discuss making the average joe *gasp* learn how to use it. :shocked: In most cases it's not that hard. Buying any complex piece of technology is like buying a car. You learn how to use it and how to basically maintain it. Until the average joe starts learning that computers and such are no different, then the average Joe will continue to get screwed by them. User-friendliness can only go so far.

I actually read a paper on this once. Intellectual Darwinism. If I leave my social security card on top of my mailbox and don't know it's there, it's still my fault if some random guy comes along and steals my identity. The fact that I was ignorant of it's location or didn't know how to use a file cabinet is no excuse.

Or we can, *gasp* have a random password automatically programmed into each consumer device and the password stuck onto the device with a removable sticker. Yes, it'll be 10 cents more to manufacture and some people will make a phone call that it doesn't work before typing in the password. But, that is a small price to pay for a far more secure product shipped with no password as default.

For a bit more cash, you can have a button on the wireless device and a small screen that randomly selects and displays the password. Only people with physical access will ever know the password, and at that point when someone has broken into your house you have bigger security issues to worry about than your WiFi internet access.

For even more cash, have a physical connection, touch your wireless device physically to the wireless device in order to make it work. If you can't get there in person, you can't use it. My garage door is basically like this (hold the garage door remote up to the garage door opener and simultaneously press buttons on both).

I could go on and on with very simple to implement ideas.

Verizon does this with all FiOS routers, pretty nifty IMO

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
Anyway, I'll ask them if they have WiFi, nearly everyone says "Yes, I have WiFi @ home." and when I dig a little deeper, they typically say they have a notebook with a WiFi card, but they don't have a wireless router, and they have their notebook plugged directly into their modem.

Well, technically they could configure it as a wireless bridge...but that's not what they mean, is it.

 

[Nocturnal]

Most people just connect to open networks around them and claim that they have WiFi.