Does anybody understand the NHL?

[n7]

This may make some people mad, but hockey is a Canadian sport.

Too few Americans appreciate what a great sport it is.

I really would like to see us develop a CHL with all the major Canadian cities getting a team, since the NHL stole several of our teams due to money being the primary objective.

 

[Stunt]

One could make a case for not having salary caps...
look at the teams who have made it close to the end the last couple years.
Minnesota wild, anehiem, calgary, tampa...
all with low budgets.

go look at the ranger's and cap's payroll and performance...hahaha

 

[Sepen]

I'd like to know what the biggest salary makers are smoking, cause I wan't some.

For instance, take a Sundin. What does he make, 7 mill a year. He won't make anything this year, 0, nata.
He will never be able to replace that money, ever. He will never make that kind of money anywhere else. So why the heck are they sitting? Things are going to only get worse.

BTW, I Coach Midgets and also played at the HS level. Too bad they have lost the love for the game.

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: classy
I am a huge hockey fan but for the life of me I can't understand the players stance to save my soul. TV revenue which is what drives professional salaries is least in the NHL of the four major sports. The Stanley Cup finals doesn't even draw huge numbers. Basketball which does very well has a salary cap and the NFL which might be tops overall has a salary cap. For the life me I don't understand why the NHL players won't take a cap. If the NBA players can take a cap I can't understand why the NHL players won't take a cap. I just seen they are going to have a scaled down meeting on Wed., but man I don't get it. There must be least 5-6 franchises that are on life support with a few others headed to ICU as well. I am missing some serious ice action, but man the NHL players are just being foolish in my opinion.

i don't understand the owners stance. the owners could all agree on a budget and pay the players that. its the owners faults by offering more and more money for players. its not the players fault there are teams that can't afford to be good, its the owners who are willing to put the money into their teams.

eta: hockey players are people with families. they are going to do what is best for them. if someone offered you 3X as much to do your same job for them, i'm sure you would take it because you can take better care of your family/yourself.

Of course the players will sign for as much as possible.. the fault does lie on the owners to a certain degree, but they were not restricted, so the top bidder wins. Who wouldn't want their team to have the biggest star so long as it's affordable ? If you don't do it, the next team will. With set league limits, this problem will not occur any longer. And the owners have no problem with this, obviously... then you actually get to see general managers work their roster management skills. Only the greedy players have a problem with salary caps because it affects their bottom line. This used to be a team sport... :|

how is it greedy? you don't see movie stars being called greedy for making obsene amounts of money for making movies. if you went into work and your boss told you that the potential for money that you could be making has to be capped how pissed would you be? i personally don't think athletes "deserve" to make the money they do but if someone is willing to pay it, obviously someone does. being an athlete isn't just going and playing a sport, there is practices, nutrition, staying healthy. not to mention the risk factor involved. if a player gets injured and their career ends, they need money to be able to support themselves for the rest of their lives. yes, a lot of non-professional and professional athletes in other sports do these kinds of things and arguably have more dedication and don't get the pay off at the end but that is because there isn't all these screaming fans willing to pay obsene amounts of money to see a game.

sure it might be ruining professional sports but its not the athletes, its the owners who are willing to put out the cash for big name players. its sad, i have seen many canadian teams that i love fold because of it but that is what happens when it becomes so big. everyone spending spending, consumers and owners a like. some just can't keep up.

((the best part is i am speaking like a true conservative here and i'm a liberal ha!))

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: Sepen

BTW, I Coach Midgets and also played at the HS level. Too bad they have lost the love for the game.

if you went into work tomorrow and your boss told you that you can't have any more raises and you shouldn't quit because you love your job so much, what would you say?

they are on strike, not because they want more money but because they don't want someone to take away their rights. perhaps that is why they are willing to lose money this year. perhaps thats why many have moved to other leagues this year.

if the owners want salary caps well then they can start a little committe, decide on salary caps and then not pay anyone over that.

 

[shopbruin]

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: Sepen

BTW, I Coach Midgets and also played at the HS level. Too bad they have lost the love for the game.

if you went into work tomorrow and your boss told you that you can't have any more raises and you shouldn't quit because you love your job so much, what would you say?

they are on strike, not because they want more money but because they don't want someone to take away their rights. perhaps that is why they are willing to lose money this year. perhaps thats why many have moved to other leagues this year.

if the owners want salary caps well then they can start a little committe, decide on salary caps and then not pay anyone over that.

players union has to agree to it first.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: n7
This may make some people mad, but hockey is a Canadian sport.

Too few Americans appreciate what a great sport it is.

I really would like to see us develop a CHL with all the major Canadian cities getting a team, since the NHL stole several of our teams due to money being the primary objective.

:thumbsup: and Go Oilers by the way.

What almost everyone except for eakers pointed out is that the state of hockey is where it is not because the players are greedy, but because the franchises themselves had driven up the player's salaries so high that they became broke trying to pay them! No one is giving props to the players at all. Look at these guys, most of them are boys from the Maritime provinces all the way out to BC. Sure you get an influx of Euros and Americans, but no one denies that this is a Canadian game at its backbone. So the majority of class 'A' talent are homegrown boys from modest farm communities and the like, working class families. What role does a talented athlete play in the whole business of money? They play. Teams fight over prospects, agents schmooze with the owners and big deals are struck. It happens in every sport. The owners of the rich franchises have been dropping $10 million on marquee players when the markets aren't even showing the revenue. That's how the NHL got to where it is today. Of course there are greedy players in the NHL.... tell me there isn't more greed among the 'talent' in all of the other major sports! Player greed is not to fault for this work stoppage. I haven't believed it yet and I won't. I believe it has unfortunately spiralled into a pissing match between the league and the UNION, and the longer it goes, the more people turn their blameful eyes on the players.

I can only take ATOT's voice as a random sample of the (mostly) American public as an indicator, but I do believe that hockey is a niche sport in the US. Why, I have no idea. I would consider Lacrosse a niche sport but try telling that to someone that lives out West in the Praire provinces where it's big. Does soccer catch on in the US? Hell no, but it will never be displaced overseas. That's just the way it is... being a niche sport in one area makes it no less great. Oh well, hockey won't catch on down south. Darn.

The NHL will be back, and it will be amazing. Just wait and see. I predict no more than 4 franchises will be lost. I hope the players don't get shafted too bad... this isn't their fault!

edit: BTW props to Aquaman for keeping us all up to date on the happenings. Give us your thoughts if you are out there Aqua.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman
I used to be a die hard Red Wings fan, but after this, fvck 'em I hope they all go broke and the league folds. All of them are greedy b@st@ards, from the players to the owners! I'll go spend my money elsewhere....

It's funny.... I remember everyone saying that in the mid 80's when baseball had the strike... I was a Mets fan back then. Except for the world series, I haven't watched a game since.

I used to be an Atlanta fan for basketball, back when they had Spud Webb and the Wilkenses.. I haven't watched a single game of professional basketball since.

There are no more "teams"... just a bunch of greedy players and greedy owners.

After this, I'll probably no longer be a Sabres fan...

But... if I had a nickel for every person who said "fvck 'em I hope they all go brake and the league folds... I'll go spend my money elsewhere" but within a month of the strike ending, they started supporting those teams again, I'd be rich.

 

[Squisher]

The owners are like alcoholics finally admitting that they have a problem. They can't stop themselves from their desires to have the best team. They are less businessmen and more fans.

Would we really want a league run by a bunch of bean counters?

This is their only solution for their own shortcomings otherwise the league is destined to have all the smaller market teams constantly going under and thus losing their fan base.

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: Squisher
The owners are like alcoholics finally admitting that they have a problem. They can't stop themselves from their desires to have the best team. They are less businessmen and more fans.

Would we really want a league run by a bunch of bean counters?

This is their only solution for their own shortcomings otherwise the league is destined to have all the smaller market teams constantly going under and thus losing their fan base.

Sure its the owners fault for the escalating salaries but the point of being is that its a war the players is not going to win.
The owners did not become rich because they own NHL teams, they own NHL teams because they are rich.
The league can fold and the owners will be just fine.
But they players...where else will they find a place to play now ??? Europe is not the answer.
Its not an occupation where you can find work freely, theres only 1 main place to work and thats the NHL.

So its not a matter of whos fault....the players will have to cave or else they are not going to have jobs.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate

Originally posted by: Rallispec
its so funny though -- a few years ago when baseball went on strike and missed out on half a season, the entire country was in uproar... It was really huge.

With the NHL though, almost nobody cares. Hockey just is not a real american sport. 90% of the places that had teams barely ever even see snow or ice. It's a niche sport with low attendence and not a whole lot of money being made. It WILL come back, but it will be a different sport when it does. I can almost promise that at least half the teams will be liquidated.

For the life of me, I could never understand why the NHL placed teams where they did.

The NHL will come back... smaller... and hopefully to Houston.

Well Tampa Bay and Florida do pretty good actually. Remember the rats with Florida, that was the phat. All damn nothing left but the memories

Look at it this way. Tampa Bay may be the last NHL champs! Defending champs for eternity

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Originally posted by: bradruth
The MLB needs a salary cap, too. Maybe then the Yankees can stop buying their way to World Series losses every year.

:thumbsup:

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: CTrain

Originally posted by: Squisher
The owners are like alcoholics finally admitting that they have a problem. They can't stop themselves from their desires to have the best team. They are less businessmen and more fans.

Would we really want a league run by a bunch of bean counters?

This is their only solution for their own shortcomings otherwise the league is destined to have all the smaller market teams constantly going under and thus losing their fan base.

Sure its the owners fault for the escalating salaries but the point of being is that its a war the players is not going to win.
The owners did not become rich because they own NHL teams, they own NHL teams because they are rich.
The league can fold and the owners will be just fine.
But they players...where else will they find a place to play now ??? Europe is not the answer.
Its not an occupation where you can find work freely, theres only 1 main place to work and thats the NHL.

So its not a matter of whos fault....the players will have to cave or else they are not going to have jobs.

Beginning of next season you'll see the owners ask that the lockout be declared at an impasse. If it is given this designation then the owners are free to start a league with what ever rules they desire.

You'll have replacement players and draft picks playing. Chances are this is when the players will cave.

 

[MrCodeDude]

The owners are losing money. They are in it for the long haul. They can't keep losing money.

 

[CTrain]

Originally posted by: MrCodeDude
The owners are losing money. They are in it for the long haul. They can't keep losing money.

For the majority of the owners, this is not their main source of income.
Beside, the NHL have been losing money so its not like the owners were profiting anyway.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: classy
Topic Title: Does anybody understand the NHL?

The what???

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: eakers

Originally posted by: classy
I am a huge hockey fan but for the life of me I can't understand the players stance to save my soul. TV revenue which is what drives professional salaries is least in the NHL of the four major sports. The Stanley Cup finals doesn't even draw huge numbers. Basketball which does very well has a salary cap and the NFL which might be tops overall has a salary cap. For the life me I don't understand why the NHL players won't take a cap. If the NBA players can take a cap I can't understand why the NHL players won't take a cap. I just seen they are going to have a scaled down meeting on Wed., but man I don't get it. There must be least 5-6 franchises that are on life support with a few others headed to ICU as well. I am missing some serious ice action, but man the NHL players are just being foolish in my opinion.

i don't understand the owners stance. the owners could all agree on a budget and pay the players that. its the owners faults by offering more and more money for players. its not the players fault there are teams that can't afford to be good, its the owners who are willing to put the money into their teams.

eta: hockey players are people with families. they are going to do what is best for them. if someone offered you 3X as much to do your same job for them, i'm sure you would take it because you can take better care of your family/yourself.

Of course the players will sign for as much as possible.. the fault does lie on the owners to a certain degree, but they were not restricted, so the top bidder wins. Who wouldn't want their team to have the biggest star so long as it's affordable ? If you don't do it, the next team will. With set league limits, this problem will not occur any longer. And the owners have no problem with this, obviously... then you actually get to see general managers work their roster management skills. Only the greedy players have a problem with salary caps because it affects their bottom line. This used to be a team sport... :|

how is it greedy? you don't see movie stars being called greedy for making obsene amounts of money for making movies. if you went into work and your boss told you that the potential for money that you could be making has to be capped how pissed would you be? i personally don't think athletes "deserve" to make the money they do but if someone is willing to pay it, obviously someone does. being an athlete isn't just going and playing a sport, there is practices, nutrition, staying healthy. not to mention the risk factor involved. if a player gets injured and their career ends, they need money to be able to support themselves for the rest of their lives. yes, a lot of non-professional and professional athletes in other sports do these kinds of things and arguably have more dedication and don't get the pay off at the end but that is because there isn't all these screaming fans willing to pay obsene amounts of money to see a game.

sure it might be ruining professional sports but its not the athletes, its the owners who are willing to put out the cash for big name players. its sad, i have seen many canadian teams that i love fold because of it but that is what happens when it becomes so big. everyone spending spending, consumers and owners a like. some just can't keep up.

((the best part is i am speaking like a true conservative here and i'm a liberal ha!))

I understand your point entirely but you have to look at the situation as it sits now. The owners are bleeding money (I already agreed it is partly their fault). You keep going at this rate, without a limit on spending, and you have no more owners, no more NHL. I say the players are greedy because they: 1) do not see this and are thinking of themselves (not for the good of the league) or 2) they do not believe the owners are losing money (it doesn't take a genius to figure out the revenue is low for the NHL).

If you were the players, you would want your money... but what about the future of the game ? They only care about now, only about themselves... all because of money when there's clearly a bigger issue at hand. How is it not greed ?

 

[TheNinja]

What really gets me is the fact that they don't have talks everyday. I mean what the heck are they waiting for? The just sit there for months and don't do squat. Why not spend every day or at least 3 days a week negotiating then take a week off, then repeat??? It's like they really don't care enough to do anything about the season.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: classy
Topic Title: Does anybody understand the NHL?

The what???

STFU and head back to P&N Dave...

kthnxbye.

 

[Kelemvor]

If Hockey turned back into being a sport about good skating, great shots, great saves, etc.... Way more people would actually want to watch it.

Lately it's become a game about revenge, trying to hurt the other team, getting in fights, etc. I can see crap like that on the evening news.

Good riddance to the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

 

[NakaNaka]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
If Hockey turned back into being a sport about good skating, great shots, great saves, etc.... Way more people would actually want to watch it.

Lately it's become a game about revenge, trying to hurt the other team, getting in fights, etc. I can see crap like that on the evening news.

Good riddance to the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree. Hockey may not be the shooutout it was in the '80s but the playoffs the last couple of seasons have seen some incredible hockey. I think it was 2 or 3 seasons ago when it seemed that nearly every playoff game went into overtime. It was beyond exciting.

The NHL needs to make a lot of changes but I wouldn't say it is "crap" or a game of "revenge"

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
If Hockey turned back into being a sport about good skating, great shots, great saves, etc.... Way more people would actually want to watch it.

Lately it's become a game about revenge, trying to hurt the other team, getting in fights, etc. I can see crap like that on the evening news.

Good riddance to the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

Spoken like a true non-fan. There were way more fights, and much nastier fights years ago...nowadays is nothing, you just hear about the few big things like Bertuzzi in the news more. People who claim hockey is all about fighting really have no clue AT ALL.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
If Hockey turned back into being a sport about good skating, great shots, great saves, etc.... Way more people would actually want to watch it.

Lately it's become a game about revenge, trying to hurt the other team, getting in fights, etc. I can see crap like that on the evening news.

Good riddance to the NHL as far as I'm concerned.

wow you really don't watch hockey... clutch and grab evolved after skaters got bigger and faster. And retaliation and intimidation has always been around. Broadstreet Bullies ring a bell ?

 

[Colt45]

Hockey doesn't really belong in the south US anyways

Maybe after a year of striking, all the southerners will forget what hockey is, and the teams will be disbanded and/or come home.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: TheNinja
What really gets me is the fact that they don't have talks everyday. I mean what the heck are they waiting for? The just sit there for months and don't do squat. Why not spend every day or at least 3 days a week negotiating then take a week off, then repeat??? It's like they really don't care enough to do anything about the season.

Obviously this is the most frustrating to everyone who wants to see some resolution. But at this point, it's a head game and an ego thing. That's why nobody can predict when it will be back, even within 2 years.