- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,039
- 32,532
- 146
Who did the research and is it widely excepted by other researchers? I ask because we lead in shark attacks every year although fatalities are rare and the experts here attribute most to the shark mistaking a foot or hand for a distressed fish. Personally I think some of the so called shark attacks here are actually bluefish bites since they are worse than sharks in a feeding frenzy and the docs aren't trained to tell the difference, and I don't think Sea World sends an expert out to investigate.
I surf in NJ where the waves are much smaller and the people are much friendlier (drop in on me, see if I cry and pick a fight about it....as if the ocean is going to stop "waving" anytime soon
Of course see if I give you the right-of-way after that, esp. if I don't recognize you, but I'm not going to go sh!t on your car or anything).
You can get decent bodyboards for ~$100. Make sure it has a "slick" bottom and doesn't bend easily.
Next: If you intend to use bodyboarding as your "spring board" for learning to surf, my recommendation is to NOT get swim fins. Think about it: you paddle a surfboard by PADDLING, not by kicking. Kicking is a bad habit to get into when you get on a real surfboard and suddenly you have to use your arms for propulsion and you're lacking both the endurance and technique. If you feel you NEED an aid b/c you're surfing a bar break or just want the added push, you could get some of those webbed gloves, which I continue to find invaluable for bodyboarding, but for some reason I feel like a schlep using them surfing, so I don't.
Bodyboarding can be invaluable for teaching you some basic thechniques that you can apply to other surf forms: when/where to catch a wave, how to modulate your speed by using your weight, how to navigate and make cuts along the wave, ettiquette, etc. I bodyboarded for many years, and when I finally bothered to pick up a surfboard, I was pretty much able to jump right in--the mechanics of catching waves never changes, but you do have to "lead" the waves more surfing as opposed to bodyboarding. Aside from this, once you figure out how to get to your feet, you're good to go.
Personally, I've hung up both surfboard and bodyboard in lieu of the kayak.
Sorry for the pics. Waves in my area were ~3ft. They were 5-8ft this weekend, too bad no one to take pictures.
I prefer the kayak for a number of reasons:
--Increased mobility: You can go farther on a kayak than you can on a surfboard.
--Always useful: When the waves suck, just go for a paddle
--40-pound boat means 40 extra pounds of inertia. Feel the drop. A good paddler can grab waves the surfers don't even bother to try for.
--Handles just as well as a surfboard for an experienced paddler.
--No one fvcks with me. I am riding a 40-pound plastic hulk. I am carrying a double-bladed paddle. I am wearing a helmet. Who knows what I've got in my cargo hatch. If we drop-in on each other, who do you think is going to win?
--Paddling with pods of dolphins. 'nuff said.
--With a kayak, all wipeouts are spectacular.
--Even in 1-foot chop, you can still get kicks and develop your wave-breaking skills paddling around in the break.
Anyway, I highly recommend surfing in any of its various forms. It's so much fun. There's some kind of whacky "mystique" surrounding it that a lot of women seem to find fascinating, which is a plus. Another plus is that you will develop excellent aquatic skills and probably get pretty buff, and maybe even collect some battle scars.
And it's just plain fun to do.
Go for it, and have fun.
You can get decent bodyboards for ~$100. Make sure it has a "slick" bottom and doesn't bend easily.
Next: If you intend to use bodyboarding as your "spring board" for learning to surf, my recommendation is to NOT get swim fins. Think about it: you paddle a surfboard by PADDLING, not by kicking. Kicking is a bad habit to get into when you get on a real surfboard and suddenly you have to use your arms for propulsion and you're lacking both the endurance and technique. If you feel you NEED an aid b/c you're surfing a bar break or just want the added push, you could get some of those webbed gloves, which I continue to find invaluable for bodyboarding, but for some reason I feel like a schlep using them surfing, so I don't.
Bodyboarding can be invaluable for teaching you some basic thechniques that you can apply to other surf forms: when/where to catch a wave, how to modulate your speed by using your weight, how to navigate and make cuts along the wave, ettiquette, etc. I bodyboarded for many years, and when I finally bothered to pick up a surfboard, I was pretty much able to jump right in--the mechanics of catching waves never changes, but you do have to "lead" the waves more surfing as opposed to bodyboarding. Aside from this, once you figure out how to get to your feet, you're good to go.
Personally, I've hung up both surfboard and bodyboard in lieu of the kayak.
Sorry for the pics. Waves in my area were ~3ft. They were 5-8ft this weekend, too bad no one to take pictures.
I prefer the kayak for a number of reasons:
--Increased mobility: You can go farther on a kayak than you can on a surfboard.
--Always useful: When the waves suck, just go for a paddle
--40-pound boat means 40 extra pounds of inertia. Feel the drop. A good paddler can grab waves the surfers don't even bother to try for.
--Handles just as well as a surfboard for an experienced paddler.
--No one fvcks with me. I am riding a 40-pound plastic hulk. I am carrying a double-bladed paddle. I am wearing a helmet. Who knows what I've got in my cargo hatch. If we drop-in on each other, who do you think is going to win?
--Paddling with pods of dolphins. 'nuff said.
--With a kayak, all wipeouts are spectacular.
--Even in 1-foot chop, you can still get kicks and develop your wave-breaking skills paddling around in the break.
Anyway, I highly recommend surfing in any of its various forms. It's so much fun. There's some kind of whacky "mystique" surrounding it that a lot of women seem to find fascinating, which is a plus. Another plus is that you will develop excellent aquatic skills and probably get pretty buff, and maybe even collect some battle scars.
And it's just plain fun to do.
Go for it, and have fun.
apoppin
Lifer
It's just what I have been reading and also PBS' Nova. There is still a lot of controversy (and a lot we don't know for sure).
My own experience extends only to S. Cali and Hawaii (I can't speak for the Floridian shark research). I believe the sharks of Africa and Australia are much more aggressive.
I also appears that - especially in Hawaii - a single "rogue" Tiger Shark may be responsible for multiple human attacks (rare, at any rate - but if a Tiger finds you dead floating in the water it is his "duty" to eat you as a scavenger).
EDIT: If you are going to bodyboard, DO get the swimfins. It is pretty unpleasant paddling without them. Don't worry, if you decide to later 'stand-up' surf, you will adapt.
Haha!EDIT: If you are going to bodyboard, DO get the swimfins. It is pretty unpleasant paddling without them. Don't worry, if you decide to later 'stand-up' surf, you will adapt.
I knew you'd have a response to that.
Well, advice is worth exactly what you pay for it, so decide for yourself.
I sat atop my kayak all last weekend watching n00b surfers who grew up bodyboarding with swimfins miss 6-footers because they simply can't paddle to save their lives. They were in the right spot, they were ready to go, they just suck at paddling--they lose their board, they can't paddle fast enough, they try to do that stupidassed one-armed paddle while they hold onto the board with the other arm, they let their feet drag in the water as they paddle, you name it.
Why have to adapt when you can learn correctly from the start? There's already enough to think about when switching from a bodyboard to a surfboard.
But that's just my opinion I guess
Originally posted by: apoppin
Sandy's is very dangerous shorebreak (I preferred half-point over Sashimi rock). It is the very worst place to LEARN to surf. If you are in Hawaii, try the Wall (Waikiki). Makapuu is another place that is very fickle . . . I got it all-time (10') the day before Hurricane Iniki where it was breaking far outside in deep water. Haouli Reeves was charging!
I'd like to add a few things to that 14 point list for newbies:
15. Surf/bodyboard in front of the lifeguard tower. ASK them about conditions before you enter the water (they'll know right away you are new; dont aske me how)
16. KNOW the conditions and if possible the surf forecast. I have been caught in Hawaii with the day starting out flat and in just a few hours hitting 15' (backs - 30' from top-to-bottom). This is not so likely in Cali, however.
17. Sit and watch (observe) the ocean conditions at least 1/2 hour before you go out. You can see where other people are surfing and what the sets look like.
18. Just as in swimming, don't drink alcohol or eat a heavy meal just before you surf.
I have to second these safety issues! KNOW *where* you are surfing (or even just swimming). Some areas look peaceful but are deadly. Even if you see others in the water, talk to people to find out about the skill level/xperience needed and any potential problems. Sandy's is notorious for people (mostly tourists) going in and getting severe spinal injuries. A few years ago my friend's ex-husband was bodysurfing there and ended up with a permanent disability.
apoppin
Lifer
Originally posted by: Jzero
Haha!EDIT: If you are going to bodyboard, DO get the swimfins. It is pretty unpleasant paddling without them. Don't worry, if you decide to later 'stand-up' surf, you will adapt.
I knew you'd have a response to that.
Well, advice is worth exactly what you pay for it, so decide for yourself.
I sat atop my kayak all last weekend watching n00b surfers who grew up bodyboarding with swimfins miss 6-footers because they simply can't paddle to save their lives. They were in the right spot, they were ready to go, they just suck at paddling--they lose their board, they can't paddle fast enough, they try to do that stupidassed one-armed paddle while they hold onto the board with the other arm, they let their feet drag in the water as they paddle, you name it.
Why have to adapt when you can learn correctly from the start? There's already enough to think about when switching from a bodyboard to a surfboard.
But that's just my opinion I guess
Then I bet you thought I'd respond to THIS.
IF you doN'T get swim fins you will have a MISERABLE experience with your bodyboard. The Bodyboard was DESIGNED for swimfins aiding propulsion. (There is a fellow in Hawaii, Chris who is a pro BB'er, that uses no fins and stands up on his board most of the time. In fact, he is the only BBer in history that entered a regular pro SURF contest and advanced from several of his heats - in fact the Association of Surfing Professionals REWROTE their rules to specifically exclude BBers from entering without a "regular" surfboard immediately afterward.). BTW, this man's arms are HUGE, even compared to surfers.)
Many of my friends have (easily) adapted to standup after years on a BB. Your "surfers" must be real klutzes.
LOL
Maybe things are different on the west coast where the swells are a little bigger, but in my experience in the east, if you can't catch waves without a crutch like fins or gloves, the problem lies in your technique and not in your equipment. Equipment is easy to blame for your mistakes. It's an easy sell. Your gear can't defend itself, and it's easy enough to switch or buy more. People on the beach used to claim that the only reason I could catch waves was b/c I wore APE gloves; so I'd give them my gloves. They'd still have trouble catching waves, I'd still have no trouble at all. Yeah, it's all the gloves.
People do this all the time with kayaks, too. "My paddle is too heavy." "I need a surf-specific kayak." "My backrest doesn't give me enough support." No. You just need a clue. I can make a Cobra Explorer look just as good as my Yak Board, and even though I swear by leg straps, there is a guy on my beach who rides a crappy lake kayak without even eyes to hook legstraps on and he surfs at least as well as I do.
They're just n00bs. They're 12-15 yo kids who spent the last 5-6 years bodyboarding and using fins as a crutch. They're used to the speed you get using fins, so they start paddling WAY too late, or they just plain have no endurance for paddling out to the break and then getting enough speed to actually get on the wave. When they get lucky and actually catch a wave they have no problem getting to their feet and even making a cut--their chief stumbling block lies in their lack of paddling ability.
Granted:
Fins will help you immensely catching waves as a bodyboarder. You will go faster, catch more waves, get out to the break more easily, etc.
Unfortunately they won't help you stay on your board as you paddle with your arms, they won't give you much of the endurance you will find helpful when surfing, and you can do just as well without them.
If you want to get a jump on conventional surfing by way of a bodyboard, you know my opinion and apoppin's. At least you've heard both sides of the coin.
One thing apoppin and I will both agree on is that you should start surfing no matter what.
apoppin
Lifer
I still think you don't get it, Jzero. Fins are not a "crutch" to bodyboarding. They are an integral part of the sport - they were DESIGNED to be used with swim fins aiding in the propulsion.
A surfboard is designed to be propelled solely by paddling. It is a bigger board with better flotation (obviously). Trying to catch waves with a bodyboard solely by paddling is a frustrating experience - especially for a newbie (it has been likened to 'paddling a cork). That's why 99.99% of bodyboarders that can afford them - use them.
Some of my friends - even skilled stand up surfers - have made a changeover to bodyboarding. It is not easy for them to learn to kick, but determination and a little skill allowed them to make a transition.
If you want to take up mountain biking, you could also choose a 1 speed bicycle.
A surfboard is designed to be propelled solely by paddling. It is a bigger board with better flotation (obviously). Trying to catch waves with a bodyboard solely by paddling is a frustrating experience - especially for a newbie (it has been likened to 'paddling a cork). That's why 99.99% of bodyboarders that can afford them - use them.
Some of my friends - even skilled stand up surfers - have made a changeover to bodyboarding. It is not easy for them to learn to kick, but determination and a little skill allowed them to make a transition.
If you want to take up mountain biking, you could also choose a 1 speed bicycle.
apoppin
Lifer
Oh, I get it. I bodyboarded for 10 years, surfed for 4 after that and have kayaked for the last 3 years.
Only once did I bother using a pair of Churchills I borrowed from another guy just to see whether or not they were worth the price, and it didn't take me long to conclude that I could do nothing extra with them that I couldn't already do on my own.
You're the first person I've ever heard that little tidbit from, and I don't buy it. Perhaps SOME bodyboards are, but at the end of the day, it's the size and shape of a bodyboard that make kicking possible, and even more useful than paddling with your arms.
As for it being "integral" to the sport, I disagree. People use them because they WORK, not because it's somehow built in to the game. Most olympic swimmers have switched over to those whacky paper suits, but that doesn't imply that it's an integral part of competitive swimming. What really happened is one person started to use them, and to keep up with competition, now everyone that can afford them gets them.
Similar to the body board, it being "designed" to be paddled with your arms is solely by virtue of its size and shape--you CAN'T move it by kicking for feet.
People use them b/c they work, not because they can't do it without them.
Or at least that's my impression.
Maybe I'm a far better swimmer than I gave myself credit for all these years.
Paddling a cork? You have got to be kidding me. The most "high quality" body board I ever owned was a friggin Morey Mach Gripper, which isn't all that great, and I have no trouble paddling out, duck-diving or catching waves.
It's just as frustrating to see a surfer throwing down his board in disgust because he can't even figure out how to ride a wave. The next day you seem him back on his bodyboard, with his swimfins on.
Wha???
Kicking a bodyboard is EASY. It's the intuitive thing to do. Hell, the thing is shaped like an oversized kickboard, why not use it like one?! If you know how to paddle, go ahead and kick.
My contention is that if you want to surf, knowing how to paddle is a Good Thing, so you may want to start learning early.
Anyway, I know from prior experience, that you can't let an opposing viewpoint just stand without a rebuttal, so I guess I'll be the better man and give up on the issue. Let LakerGod decide himself. He's heard your theory and mine. He can try both ways even. So who cares?
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,039
- 32,532
- 146
Would you guys stop talking about sponges? I think your mom wants it back so she can do the dishes Here on the east coast sponging(boogieboarding ) isn't necessary, just buy a longboard and you can be getting stoke the first day. I have taught several guys and gals to surf and had all but one dude up the first day. every one of them still surfs (no surprise there). As far as the locals only mentality goes, It's can get pretty bad at New Smyrna Inlet but I rarely surf there so I don't know if they've chilled out a lot or not. Sebastian Inlet is competitive but I've yet to see anyone freak out over anything other than the fisherman on the jetty and that's been a long time. Surfing 2nd light, the Tables, and other local breaks, I know some of the longboarders and a few of the Gromms so I almost always have someone to talk to and the attitude is very layed back and mellow around here.
Here on the east coast sponging(boogieboarding ) isn't necessary, just buy a longboard and you can be getting stoke the first day. I have taught several guys and gals to surf and had all but one dude up the first day. every one of them still surfs (no surprise there). As far as the locals only mentality goes, It's can get pretty bad at New Smyrna Inlet but I rarely surf there so I don't know if they've chilled out a lot or not. Sebastian Inlet is competitive but I've yet to see anyone freak out over anything other than the fisherman on the jetty and that's been a long time. Surfing 2nd light, the Tables, and other local breaks, I know some of the longboarders and a few of the Gromms so I almost always have someone to talk to and the attitude is very layed back and mellow around here.ah start and you'll be hooked. although as a beginner you'd probably want to start at a break that is real mushy and slow. The waves will be easier to catch and you'll take less punishment. Learning to duckdive is essential as are the little unwritten rules of not dropping in or getting into people's way when you paddleout. But yes there is nothing compared to catching a wave and better yet when it gets bigger launching yourself over the ledge, airdropping and then reconnecting with the wave. For at least an instant you feel like angel. But yes if you start you better have a flexible schedule because when it gets good you'll drop whatever you're doing and head for the surf. summer sucks though with all the little waves, crowds, onshore winds etc. Make sure you check the tides and winds before you headout or you'll just waste time. Now if only Mavs weren't so cold and surrounded by those great whites. But if you start and become a true soul surfer then you'll realize it's all about fun and connecting with the ocean. Hope no locals hassel you
But if you start and become a true soul surfer then you'll realize it's all about fun and connecting with the ocean. Hope no locals hassel you Jzero and apoppin are both right.
If you want to have fun on a bodyboard, you need fins.
If you want to develop some of the back muscles you need for surfing, fins don't help.
I grew up bodyboarding all over sothern california... zuma and ventura as a kid, salt creek, t-street, newport and huntington in HS, baja and SD on occasion as a grown-up. If you don't have fins, other bodyboarders and surfers will assume you're from the midwest and will snake every wave you try to catch. They are somewhat justified in doing this, because you probably will not catch anything over 2' using only your arms.
I tried taking up surfing two summers ago, but have given up in favor of bodyboarding (actually, I hardly every get to the beach anymore and prefer mtn biking). Unless you can get to the beach once or twice a week, developing the upper back muscles needed to paddle a surfboard is almost impossible. Bodyboarding is instant fun.
If you want to have fun on a bodyboard, you need fins.
If you want to develop some of the back muscles you need for surfing, fins don't help.
I grew up bodyboarding all over sothern california... zuma and ventura as a kid, salt creek, t-street, newport and huntington in HS, baja and SD on occasion as a grown-up. If you don't have fins, other bodyboarders and surfers will assume you're from the midwest and will snake every wave you try to catch. They are somewhat justified in doing this, because you probably will not catch anything over 2' using only your arms.
I tried taking up surfing two summers ago, but have given up in favor of bodyboarding (actually, I hardly every get to the beach anymore and prefer mtn biking). Unless you can get to the beach once or twice a week, developing the upper back muscles needed to paddle a surfboard is almost impossible. Bodyboarding is instant fun.
apoppin
Lifer
That was pretty long-winded and you contradicted yourself. You say you only tried bodyboarding with fins ONCE, and then you say kicking with a BB is easy and intuitive - how would you know if you only paddled?
The creator of the BB - Tom Morey - designed the board with swim fins in mind. If you have never used swim fins, you ARE a better paddler than you give yourself credit for. I certainly CAN bb without swimfins, but why cripple myself? Many times I alternate between paddling and kicking (you change your position on the board - forward to paddle, back to kick).
If you are looking to stand-up surf, don't bother with a BB - just get a longboard and then - if you like - move to a thruster. Also, if you live on the East Coast - with lots of tiny windswell - a longboard is more practical and fun since you will get more waves and travel further than on a BB.
Whatever you are planning, Just Do IT.
Remember that you will be stiff and tired from using those muscles you don't regularly use.EDIT: Bodyboarding is a pro sport. ALL of the pros use swim fins with ONE exception. I rest my case.
apoppin
Lifer
Yes. Out of the water his is mild-mannered and rather quiet. He is considered one of the top surfers in the world and absolutely "goes off" at huge Pipe.
Actually, I got to meet most of the top surfers/bodyboarders in the world including Gerry Lopez (I lived next door to him) and Kelly Slater (pre-Pam days). I also got to know some of the top bodyboarders pretty well including Jack Lindholm and Ben Severson. Heck, I even got to know Johnny-Boy Gomes (but that was mostly because of my job in radio) - Hawaii is really small.
Surfing is - I think - a unique sport in this regard. There is NO WAY you're gonna drive a race car as an amateur in a race with pros, or play tennis with top professionals (without BIG bucks, that is). Yet you - if you have the necessary skills - can paddle right out at Pipeline and surf next to the greatest in the Surfing world.
[qThat was pretty long-winded and you contradicted yourself. You say you only tried bodyboarding with fins ONCE, and then you say kicking with a BB is easy and intuitive - how would you know if you only paddled?[/quote]
Wordiness is a virtue
Anyway, what I mean to say is that while paddling with your arms is doable, and it's what I do, if you think about the way you typically hold onto the board, kicking is the obvious thing to do.
Give a BB to any joe tourist and he'll most like lay on top of it and kick his feet.
So naturally, most BBers are kicking, and most are using swim fins.
I also agree that you should use fins b/c you can. My suggestion wasn't saying that swimfins are bad or useless, even when I use the term "crutch." I was just trying to stress the importance of good paddling skills
Pro swimmers almost alway use those paper suits now...not because it's integral to swimming, but simply b/c if you don't wear one, you'll pretty much get beat out by the people that do.
And as you said before, why cripple yourself?
Anyway, I'm glad we had this talk
The bottom line is it's about having fun.
Wordiness is a virtue
Anyway, what I mean to say is that while paddling with your arms is doable, and it's what I do, if you think about the way you typically hold onto the board, kicking is the obvious thing to do.
Give a BB to any joe tourist and he'll most like lay on top of it and kick his feet.
So naturally, most BBers are kicking, and most are using swim fins.
Interesting...I never heard that about the BB being designed for swim fins, but I defer to you on that one. Could very well be, I suppose.
I also agree that you should use fins b/c you can. My suggestion wasn't saying that swimfins are bad or useless, even when I use the term "crutch." I was just trying to stress the importance of good paddling skills
I agree with that, but I think you should bodyboard, too, just b/c it's damn fun
Agree with that tooWhatever you are planning, Just Do IT.
Is that because you can't bodyboard without fins, or because if you don't, you'll be pretty much screwed compared to everyone else?EDIT: Bodyboarding is a pro sport. ALL of the pros use swim fins with ONE exception. I rest my case.
Pro swimmers almost alway use those paper suits now...not because it's integral to swimming, but simply b/c if you don't wear one, you'll pretty much get beat out by the people that do.
And as you said before, why cripple yourself?
Anyway, I'm glad we had this talk
The bottom line is it's about having fun.
That's cool as hell.
Not like many big name surfers and bodyboarders hang out in NJ, but one of the coolest things is the accessibility of surfing. It's not like golf where you have to shell out $50 every time you go out, or team sports where if you can't get enough people together you can't play.
All you need is a board and an ocean.
Even if you only do it occasionally, you can still just pick up your board and go out.
apoppin
Lifer
If you are looking to compete with other bodyboarders, you're at a serious disadvantage without swim fins. I can't speak for New Jersey but can speak for C&H waves.
It always blew my mind to meet some pro in the water at Pipe that I'd always admired. Even though it became a regular occurance. Of course, there is the downside when some have really crap attitudes and you get ripped-off and go over the falls because your "hero" took off right in front of you (however, some of my best waves have been stuffed deep in the tube behind a pro-surfer - just gotta watch out for his cutback).
ANd did I mention the Brazillian Bodyboarder women that Surf big Pipe in their G-strings?
It's worth letting them have the wave so you can them watch from behind (I HAVE gone over the falls several time just in sheer awe). This thread freaking rules. I didn't expect to get more than 5 or 6 replies. I really want to learn how to stand surf, so I may see about getting a long board. I think I may know somebody who can let me borrow one. As for body boarding, it looks fun as hell, and I'll be sure to do that too. The only thing I did at the beach before was body surf, so hopefully those "skills" will come in handy...haha. If I lose inspiration, I'll just watch North Shore until I get the motivation.
you ever run into doerner, bradshaw and foo before he met his fate? The big wave guys always seem to me to have some tradition,respect etc. I'm sure those big wave chargers all probably meet at the same spots. Yeah the young local pros have shi11y attitudes those guys in socal will snake you everytime and some will have the nerve to cutback right into you after they've dropped in on you
apoppin
Lifer
Many of the above named don't surf Pipe until it gets huge. Also, they were/are often found at Waimea and outer reef 'cloudbreaks' or getting 'towed-in' by jetski to even bigger (read 50-70' top-to-bottom) waves. These guys are the true adrenaline junkies who put their life on the line for the rush they love.
Many of these guys demand respect. To drop in on them is to risk - at the very least - a serious scolding and being sent in to the beach. If not from them, then their peers and friends. There IS a hierarchy (pecking order) at the heavy spots (even if technically it's "your" wave, you just defer to them). One of the most incredible experiences in the (surfing) world is to just paddle out at 8-12' Pipeline (that 15-25' top to bottom) and WATCH one of the greatest shows on earth (nevermind actually getting and riding one of these incredible waves).
I've got to ask if you're a goofy and what's the biggest and or the deepest barrels you've got at pipe. Any general tips because I might be going there this winter as el nino is coming. The biggest I've got is a 7'9" x 18 x 3 pintail gun because in socal there really isn't a need for anything bigger. you got any 10 plus guns you want to sell?
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 411
-
Facebook
Twitter