Does anybody care about Tony Blair?

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Well this has been debated thoroughly when he took office - he took part in demonstrations (which were sometimes violent) in the 68 era. He distanced himself from the wiolent act of some demonstrators. This guy is referring to actions in of young man in volatile times. He did not commit any terrorist acts though - duh what do u think. Btw he is also one of the founders of the green party which had pacifism as main element in their statutes until recently... (I think they dropped it when they became a governing party and germany was to participate in action such as Kosovo and Afganisthan).

By your definition LBJ was mass murder when many students were shot in protests in 68.

Just ignore those guys they just need something to fuel their hate...

What a GLOSS job! Can you EVER make a post without twisting some fact somewhere?

KGB connections, living with KNOWN terrorists from the Baader-Meinhof Gang AND beating police officers and plenty of other things.
If he were in America, he would still be in jail!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I just love americentric nationalists. No imagination.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Middle of The Road Source
Left Wing Source
Right Wing Source

These seem pretty damning against him - although if I read them right these are still "claims" and not "convictions". I don't think that because a single politician *may* have a dodgy past that means that nothing that Germany says is relevant.

Andy[/quote]

That is VERY true, and if he were just one bad apple I would totally agree.
Fischer and Schroeder are just symptoms of a greater problem within Germany.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I just love americentric nationalists. No imagination.

I just love effete euro-trash pseudo intellectuals that ignore facts and resort to name calling.

Pull some facts out of your ass to refute my argument or STFU, Andre.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
When the "war" is over he will be a hero when they see what stuff is dug up that Saddam didn't want found...

People will owe both him and GW Bush an apology.

Not quite - some people (myself included) are not protesting about the looming war because we do not think a war is needed. I protest because of the way in which this whole thing has been handled. Most people in the UK would support military action with a 2nd UN resolution - but not without. I don't see those same people lining up to thank Blair when Saddam is gone and the UNSC has been reduced to irrelevancy - even if the WMD we (I believe) know he has are found.

This situation should have been handled in a way that would ensure maximum support from the UNSC for military action if required - not as a US/UK war in preparation that merely looked for the UN to approve of it, rather than explicitly sanction it.

Andy

I agree, its the diplomatic path this soon to be war has gone through has been extremely damaging for the world. Thats why I kinda like the new UK idea about few steps for Saddam to disarm, though the time sucks. I like the time the 6 states that havent decided how to vote came up with, 45 days for Saddam to disarm. Add that together in a resolution that authorizes war if Saddam doesnt comply within the timelimit of the steps and the total timelimit given, then you have a resolution that I could support.

wouldn't france and russia just veto an ultimatum? if the US and UK were to come up with an ultimatum plan like you've just described, and it didn't pass the security council, but the US and UK decided to enforce it anyway, would it be kosher?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
wouldn't france and russia just veto an ultimatum? if the US and UK were to come up with an ultimatum plan like you've just described, and it didn't pass the security council, but the US and UK decided to enforce it anyway, would it be kosher?

From what I hear, we are, due to the fact that Iraq is in violation of their previous cease fire agreement with The US. It would be a resumption of hostilities after Iraq broke the terms of the cease fire.

We should never have dealt with The UN on another resolution, IMHO.

 

[B00ne]

Yeah Jimbo we are all terrorists and better watch out soon we are gonna fly right into your bedroom with our super secret terroristic wonder plane that will tar and feather you upon impact

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

Originally posted by: ElFenix
wouldn't france and russia just veto an ultimatum? if the US and UK were to come up with an ultimatum plan like you've just described, and it didn't pass the security council, but the US and UK decided to enforce it anyway, would it be kosher?

From what I hear, we are, due to the fact that Iraq is in violation of their previous cease fire agreement with The US. It would be a resumption of hostilities after Iraq broke the terms of the cease fire.

We should never have dealt with The UN on another resolution, IMHO.

was it with the US or was it with a UN force, largely composed of and commanded by US forces?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Yeah Jimbo we are all terrorists and better watch out soon we are gonna fly right into your bedroom with our super secret terroristic wonder plane that will tar and feather you upon impact

No, you are just a bunch of radical socialist ass-clowns that like to blame The US for your own problems.

 

[Jimbo]

From what I have read, it was with The US.

I will try to find a copy of the cease fire agreement on the web and confirm what I have been told.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Jimbo

No, you are just a bunch of radical socialist ass-clowns that like to blame The US for your own problems.

😀 whatever you say

 

[zoiks]

I dont. What a kissass.

 

[freegeeks]

Oh yeah!

Gerhard Schroeder is no friend of America.

Considering that his foreign minister is essentially a former terrorist enabler, I discount much of what you German ass-clowns say these days.

And Bush was a former coke-head-alcoholist, and your point is ????

 

[freegeeks]

Quote
Originally posted by: Jimbo

No, you are just a bunch of radical socialist ass-clowns that like to blame The US for your own problems.

And you are just a cattlehumping-flagwaving-redneck-punk 😀

go now -- your cow is waiting for you

 

[StageLeft]

Yeah I feel bad for him too but he'll be ok! I also find it offensive that people call the UK puppets of the US or Blair a brown noser. Is that how you reward friendship and loyalty? You can disagree with the war stance if you like but don't call the UK puppets in this. The UK represents the ONLY significant support for the US in this and is the ONLY reason the US isn't seen as the single lone aggressor against Iraq. Whether you agree with the war or not the US is going to fight, and without the UK world opinion against the US would be all that much worse.

 

[freegeeks]

Man, I feel for this poor guy. He's been backing up the US from the start and his political career in England is pretty much over for now.

well, I think that Blair is a brilliant charismatic politican but he's getting in big troubles in GB because of his almost unconditional support for the US.

Basically his head is so far in Bush his ass that he can probably see his tonsils.

They have a new nickname for him in Europe: "Vice-Deputy-Governor of West-Texas"

 

[freegeeks]

Yeah I feel bad for him too but he'll be ok! I also find it offensive that people call the UK puppets of the US or Blair a brown noser. Is that how you reward friendship and loyalty? You can disagree with the war stance if you like but don't call the UK puppets in this. The UK represents the ONLY significant support for the US in this and is the ONLY reason the US isn't seen as the single lone aggressor against Iraq. Whether you agree with the war or not the US is going to fight, and without the UK world opinion against the US would be all that much worse.

I agree but for continental Europe it goes further then the support that Blair gives to the Bush administration.
Within the EU there are all sorts of problems with the Brits because they are obstructing the further unification of the union.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah I feel bad for him too but he'll be ok! I also find it offensive that people call the UK puppets of the US or Blair a brown noser. Is that how you reward friendship and loyalty? You can disagree with the war stance if you like but don't call the UK puppets in this. The UK represents the ONLY significant support for the US in this and is the ONLY reason the US isn't seen as the single lone aggressor against Iraq. Whether you agree with the war or not the US is going to fight, and without the UK world opinion against the US would be all that much worse.

The only people that are calling Blare those name are leftist Europeans or rabid Bush haters. He is generally highly regarded over here. We don't view him as a puppet as it has been mentioned by administration insiders that he has had a moderating influence on GWB.
Generally puppets don't influence their puppet masters.

The EU proponents hate him because they think that he is going screw up The UK's entrance into the Union.
Personally, I hope that is exactly what happens! 🙂

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Yeah I feel bad for him too but he'll be ok! I also find it offensive that people call the UK puppets of the US or Blair a brown noser. Is that how you reward friendship and loyalty? You can disagree with the war stance if you like but don't call the UK puppets in this. The UK represents the ONLY significant support for the US in this and is the ONLY reason the US isn't seen as the single lone aggressor against Iraq. Whether you agree with the war or not the US is going to fight, and without the UK world opinion against the US would be all that much worse.

I agree but for continental Europe it goes further then the support that Blair gives to the Bush administration.
Within the EU there are all sorts of problems with the Brits because they are obstructing the further unification of the union.

What is the possibility that is one of the reasons for France and Germanys opposition to the war? It's not that they don't see the danger that Iraq poses but they are using the situation to make a power play for European politics.

Blair was warning of the dangers of Iraq before Pres. Bush even took office. The only people that are calling him a puppet don't know their history of the situation.

 

[B00ne]

Well the reason they are calling him a puppet is because he has absolutely no backing in his stance, neither among the british population nor within his own party

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Well the reason they are calling him a puppet is because he has absolutely no backing in his stance, neither among the british population nor within his own party

He most definitely does have backing. 20% of the British population supports a war in Iraq without UN support (heard this morning). That's 1/5 without support, which while isn't great is some support - and if Blair can manage to get a final pro-war vote along with Bush I would expect that more than half of the british population would support the war.

Blair clearly is not a puppet of his own party is he, so why would one presume to call him one of the US if even his own party can't keep him totally reigned in?

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah I feel bad for him too but he'll be ok! I also find it offensive that people call the UK puppets of the US or Blair a brown noser. Is that how you reward friendship and loyalty? You can disagree with the war stance if you like but don't call the UK puppets in this. The UK represents the ONLY significant support for the US in this and is the ONLY reason the US isn't seen as the single lone aggressor against Iraq. Whether you agree with the war or not the US is going to fight, and without the UK world opinion against the US would be all that much worse.

Where the word UK appears - read UK government. Opinion polls show that you can't really say "UK" and mean the citizens, in terms of supporting the US unless Mr Blair secures a 2nd UN resolution.

For opinion polls search here, as there are no direct links.

Andy

 

[B00ne]

Well 20% might be enough to become US president, but I wouldn't exactly call that a backing

 

[spaceman]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Well 20% might be enough to become US president, but I wouldn't exactly call that a backing

har har har.
b00ne, go have a nutella sandwich and some heinz and stfu.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Well 20% might be enough to become US president, but I wouldn't exactly call that a backing

I agree - unless something changes, only a 2nd UN resolution will lift public backing to a majority (ie over 50%)

Andy