Does AMD/ATI make stable drivers?

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Imp

Lifer
Feb 8, 2000
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Just got a new 6850, has been completely flawless (almost). Haven't had a single desktop/idle crash, and games have been running reasonably well. A CTD is forgiveable, not anything on the desktop.

This replaced a 5770 that kept crashing every so often on the desktop, even with Aero turned off, that sometimes required a hard reset. Think I tried every Catalyst 10.x version up to the latest and no luck. RMA'd the card, but they said they couldn't find anything wrong, so meh, they still sent me a new one, and I sold it before testing.
 

dust

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2008
1,328
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Most "driver issues" are I D 1 0 T errors anyway. I've had quite a few of those myself, trying stupid stuff all the time, but I'm not crying "fault" whenever I get owned by the software.

It's funny really how everyone (almost) that complains about drivers , assumes they haven't done something wrong.
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
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Most "driver issues" are I D 1 0 T errors anyway. I've had quite a few of those myself, trying stupid stuff all the time, but I'm not crying "fault" whenever I get owned by the software.

It's funny really how everyone (almost) that complains about drivers , assumes they haven't done something wrong.

I would agree for those that tinker, overclock, and shoot to push things beyond the specified design parameters, there should be no surprise when undesired effects are present. However, when you do a clean install on a system and the video drivers crash within an hour of you watching any videos, this is a failure on the part of the supplier(s) to provide a product that meets the needs of the customer. This is know as an unspoken requirement; the expectation the customer has that the product work, even though they may not say it directly. Failure to meet this requirement is how you lose customers.
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
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I'm also using the 10.10e on my 6850. I'm reluctant to go to the later versions since I read the mouse flicker still existed in the bottom right corner of the screen. One of the later versions even introduced some mouse lag I read. I'm not a big fan of the new UI either and since the mouse problems still exist, I don't see a reason to upgrade yet.


Latest driver failed, just installed 10.10e, see how that goes.

Been sorting through the ATI forums, tried what I could, but so far have not found anything that works.

Will keep updated, so far I have not real impressed with ATI, not to say that can't change, but so far not planning on going ATI next time.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
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This thread makes me feel lucky..I haven't had any ATI driver issues in years.

Nah, you aren't that lucky.

4850 and 6850 here and no problems at all, either.

It just seems if someone has a problem and the card on their system is an AMD/ATI it has to be the drivers while if they have a NVIDIA card it must be something else.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Nah, you aren't that lucky.

4850 and 6850 here and no problems at all, either.

It just seems if someone has a problem and the card on their system is an AMD/ATI it has to be the drivers while if they have a NVIDIA card it must be something else.

While it's nice that many owners of 4-series and 6-series cards say they have no problems, it would be more helpful to read posts by owners of 5-series cards that have had problems and found solutions.

I can say that I get screen corruption (pink lines) on my desktop almost every time I upgrade to a new AMD driver release. This is usually after a cold boot and zero game-playing or video-playing. The pink lines go away after another restart, but to me, this is a sure sign of a driver problem since it's actually brought on by installing the drivers. In fact, I've never had that issue during gaming. Since November, however, I have had frequent driver crashes during game-playing and video-playing, during which the screen goes blank for about 20 seconds and a message indicates that the ATI driver has crashed and rebooted.

I've owned the card for almost a year but never had that problem until November. I guess it could be a failing card, but it's more likely a driver-related issue, as I don't have any graphical corruption in games, ever.
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
386
0
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While it's nice that many owners of 4-series and 6-series cards say they have no problems, it would be more helpful to read posts by owners of 5-series cards that have had problems and found solutions.

I can say that I get screen corruption (pink lines) on my desktop almost every time I upgrade to a new AMD driver release. This is usually after a cold boot and zero game-playing or video-playing. The pink lines go away after another restart, but to me, this is a sure sign of a driver problem since it's actually brought on by installing the drivers. In fact, I've never had that issue during gaming. Since November, however, I have had frequent driver crashes during game-playing and video-playing, during which the screen goes blank for about 20 seconds and a message indicates that the ATI driver has crashed and rebooted.

I've owned the card for almost a year but never had that problem until November. I guess it could be a failing card, but it's more likely a driver-related issue, as I don't have any graphical corruption in games, ever.

Glad I am not the only one, sounds like the exact issues I am having.

I know others have raised the question of if it is drivers or hardware, I am going to stick with drivers being the issue. there are many reasons but mostly is experience. Working with electronics at work, of the past 100 problems we have had, 99 have been a software issue, 1 was due to hardware (bad chip). looking over several hundred parts, that ratio only gets worse for software. One of the biggest reasons is the push for faster releases and lack of good regression testing. Too many times software engineers write off single failures as a fluke, what I have found through significant testing is that this is a sign of a larger problem, and while is sucks to try and diagnose we need to understand why if failed (or at least give due diligence to trying many things) before saying is was just a fluke. The work load is high (I understand why software engineers usually ignore it) but when reliability is key (and it should be for almost everything) the time must be spent to understand and diagnose.

From the hardware side, the two biggest causes of failure are temperature and power. Every 10C rise in temp the life of a device is cut in half. not only that, but the timing changes the series resistance goes up, which causes higher power dissipation, which causes higher temp (viscous cycle). This puts stress on all of the components and can lead to many problems (higher BER being the number one that occurs). Power is equally important, Vth is constantly getting smaller meaning even minor variations in voltage can cause problems. The other one that really sticks out is current transients due to load changes.

I did upgrade Power Supplies to ensure power was not an issue, it helped with some issues, but the video ones still remain. I also turned the fan on 100% (seeing it operate at 65C was very disturbing) and the card now holds 35C, a safe temp.

I don't want to trivialize the work to create good drivers, but when I get a 100+MB driver download, either someone is not taking care to write efficient code, or someone better make damn sure it is tested thoroughly. the number of people with issues tells me that both options are not being met.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
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I can say that I get screen corruption (pink lines) on my desktop almost every time I upgrade to a new AMD driver release. This is usually after a cold boot and zero game-playing or video-playing. The pink lines go away after another restart, but to me, this is a sure sign of a driver problem since it's actually brought on by installing the drivers. In fact, I've never had that issue during gaming. Since November, however, I have had frequent driver crashes during game-playing and video-playing, during which the screen goes blank for about 20 seconds and a message indicates that the ATI driver has crashed and rebooted.

I didn't have the screen corruption problem but I had games crashing on me with 10.12 preview driver(The worst driver I have ever used). Went back to 10.11.. and everything is fine and dandy.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
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I've owned the card for almost a year but never had that problem until November. I guess it could be a failing card, but it's more likely a driver-related issue, as I don't have any graphical corruption in games, ever.

If you didn't have problems for 8 months what driver were you using prior to November? Did you try to install that driver?
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
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I also turned the fan on 100% (seeing it operate at 65C was very disturbing) and the card now holds 35C, a safe temp.

I think you are going a bit OCD there. I would be worried if the card is idling at 65C.. but operating at 65C is perfectly fine. I would never run the fan at 100%.. the trade off(Noise Vs Temp) is not worth it.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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If you didn't have problems for 8 months what driver were you using prior to November? Did you try to install that driver?

Good question. I think I had the best luck with 10.4 through 10.7. I've installed every driver release soon after they've come out. Because the problems I have are intermittent, it's a bit hard to say whether I've "solved the problem". The issue with pink lines on the desktop after a driver install is brand new to 10.12 and 11.1, so I really should go back and try one of the mid-2010 drivers. I don't think I've actually gained any benefits from the new drivers (I keep hoping I will), so I'll go ahead and install 10.6 and see what happens.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,697
397
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I don't want to trivialize the work to create good drivers, but when I get a 100+MB driver download, either someone is not taking care to write efficient code, or someone better make damn sure it is tested thoroughly. the number of people with issues tells me that both options are not being met.

You know that the latest driver from NVIDIA, for example, is also a 100MB release?
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
386
0
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I think you are going a bit OCD there. I would be worried if the card is idling at 65C.. but operating at 65C is perfectly fine. I would never run the fan at 100%.. the trade off(Noise Vs Temp) is not worth it.

That was at idle. Working with devices that need to operate in 105C ambient, I know what can go wrong, overkill yes, but the noise difference is not noticeable so there is no drawback.

I am all about overkill, that is why I built a house out of concrete (500,000lbs)!
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
386
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You know that the latest driver from NVIDIA, for example, is also a 100MB release?

yep, had an NVidia card prior to the ATI one. Point is that with that large a driver package, the validation needs to be stepped up significantly.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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That was at idle. Working with devices that need to operate in 105C ambient, I know what can go wrong, overkill yes, but the noise difference is not noticeable so there is no drawback.

I am all about overkill, that is why I built a house out of concrete (500,000lbs)!

Actually, if your card was operating at 65C at idle, there may be another problem. Which model do you have? What type of case cooling do you have? One great thing about the recent Radeons (HD5000/6000) is that they idle at relatively low temps. Usually no higher than 45C, with loads from 65C-75C (maybe higher with HD69XX).

Set your fan to 30% and tell us what the temp is idle immediately after a cold start.
 
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busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
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That was at idle. Working with devices that need to operate in 105C ambient, I know what can go wrong, overkill yes, but the noise difference is not noticeable so there is no drawback.

Let me get this straight.. your card is idling at 65C? That is definitely not normal. Mine idles at 37C(at 40%) and a 5870 should not be much different.
 

brybir

Senior member
Jun 18, 2009
241
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Then there is this older article:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/nvidia-drivers-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-20/


Showing that in 2008, under Vista, Nvidia's drivers caused more crashes than Intel and ATI drivers combined and caused over 30% of reported windows crashes as reported to microsoft, making it the single highest item in the report.

Take it for what its worth, it was 2008, and it was Vista, but Nvidia's reputation of stable drivers (or at least more stable than ATI/AMDs) is nothing more than the ancidotal "feel" of a few people on this forum.
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
I noticed that you have an nForce 750i board, and I remember having video issues with my 780i board years ago. I was able to dig up the old thread on the issue.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=168679&

Does this at all sound like the issue you are experiencing? I don't recall if there was a solution found to this issue or not, but I know that I replaced my motherboard with an Intel chipset motherboard and the issue disappeared.

Not sure if this is your issue or not, but I figured I'd mention it.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Take it for what its worth, it was 2008, and it was Vista

NVIDIA also had nearly 70% of the video card market and was first out with a DX10 card. So.....yeah.

By that measure I guess Matrox has the best drivers.

Either way would should take bets each month to see how many hot fixes there will be. I'm guessing at least 2 this month.
 
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Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
386
0
76
I noticed that you have an nForce 750i board, and I remember having video issues with my 780i board years ago. I was able to dig up the old thread on the issue.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=168679&

Does this at all sound like the issue you are experiencing? I don't recall if there was a solution found to this issue or not, but I know that I replaced my motherboard with an Intel chipset motherboard and the issue disappeared.

Not sure if this is your issue or not, but I figured I'd mention it.

Thanks for the link, seems to be a different problem though.
 

Twinpeaksr

Senior member
Aug 9, 2000
386
0
76
Actually, if your card was operating at 65C at idle, there may be another problem. Which model do you have? What type of case cooling do you have? One great thing about the recent Radeons (HD5000/6000) is that they idle at relatively low temps. Usually no higher than 45C, with loads from 65C-75C (maybe higher with HD69XX).

Set your fan to 30% and tell us what the temp is idle immediately after a cold start.

Changed Overclock to auto, temp rose from 36C to 61C in less than 5min. No video playing, just Firefox and some office apps running. Fan was at 21% and rose to 24% where it stayed. You maybe on to something...

Card is a Gigabyte GV-R587OC-1GD, Case is a Lian-Li Midtower, I have a 120mm fan in the front lower area at full speed, and a set of small drive fans in the bays. Also using a Corsair PS as well.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Changed Overclock to auto, temp rose from 36C to 61C in less than 5min. No video playing, just Firefox and some office apps running. Fan was at 21% and rose to 24% where it stayed. You maybe on to something...

Card is a Gigabyte GV-R587OC-1GD, Case is a Lian-Li Midtower, I have a 120mm fan in the front lower area at full speed, and a set of small drive fans in the bays. Also using a Corsair PS as well.

That card has a very good heatsink/fan. It sounds like the driver is correctly controlling the fan. 21% is indeed the default fan speed at low temps, and 24% is about where it would be by default at 61C. The problem is that it shouldn't be possible to hit 61C at idle. What are the clock speeds at idle? Should be 157/300. You can use MSI Afterburner to get these. You can also use Afterburner to monitor voltages - it could be that your card is operating at 3D voltages while at idle. I think HD5870 3D voltage is 1.15 (might want to look that up). At idle it should be 0.987, or something to that effect.
 

busydude

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2010
8,793
5
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What are the clock speeds at idle? Should be 157/300. You can use MSI Afterburner to get these. You can also use Afterburner to monitor voltages - it could be that your card is operating at 3D voltages while at idle. I think HD5870 3D voltage is 1.15 (might want to look that up). At idle it should be 0.987, or something to that effect.

He is using a multi monitor setup, idles around 400/900.