Does a president need to uphold the Constitution? Trump says 'I don't know'

[fskimospy]

They had agency in their campaign messaging, and budget decisions, but the big factors were indeed the big external events this time.

That is reality, sometime events beyond your control dominate.




That's the same wishful thinking I saw after Biden won.

I agree that external factors were more important than their messaging. Their messaging, however, emphasizes those external factors. That’s dumb!

Again I feel like you are arguing against things people aren’t saying. It is simultaneously possible for external factors to be the most important AND for them to have a dumb message. Had they been smarter they would have tried to co-opt Canadian nationalism. Instead they embraced the Trumpists. Stupid.

It is certainly possible they will win the next election but the strategy remains stupid and they would do better if they abandoned it.

 

[manly]

I think the guy that launched a trade war against the world, told all NATO treaty allies that if they want US help, the have to pay for it, ended US humanitarian aid, sided with Russia in the Ukraine war, is perfectly happy to have USA be a Pariah State.

Trump cares about his place in history (and his idea of role model is literally Hitler), not that people like the USA.

Trump doesn't care at all about good will. He figures no matter what he does, everyone has to trade with USA whether they want to or not.

Unless you're Vladimir Putin, none of these Trump admin policies is going particularly well for Trump. You could argue that he's gotten NATO treaty partners to spend more on mutual defense, which is a plus. But that's because they realize Trump is a Putin puppet, so the U.S. is now unreliable. They're not spending more to give Trump a political win.

Being a pariah state doesn't have any advantages, but could have severe, permanent disadvantages. Trump may not care about good will, but we all knows he's a big ass snowflake pussy too. Although he wants nothing more than being a strong man dictator, he cares deeply what other world leaders think about him.

Finally, unlike his depravity, Trump's powers are not boundless. While it may be hard to imagine at this time, the U.S. still has the 25th Amendment and impeachment cards if the most extreme end games ever came into play. Unfortunately the GOP has almost completely caved to Trump, so the bar to reaching a full-on Constitutional crisis is extremely high.

If Trump orders an invasion of a NATO ally and thus plunges the U.S. into an economic depression*, his place in history is sealed as a madman and failure.

* I don't see how the U.S. avoids economic ruin when 95% of the world decides to abandon the status quo with U.S. hegemony. I honestly don't know what it would look like, but there would be massive social unrest here in the U.S. as well. (Scale up the current anti-Tesla protests by an order of magnitude.)

 

[soulcougher73]

You are literally arguing for no agency. After all, if events were purely determinative then they had no agency. You’re agreeing with me!

I think the conservatives choosing to embrace Trumpism was a giant mistake and they paid the price. If they continue the same electoral strategy they will pay the price again.

worked in america a 2nd time

 

[fskimospy]

worked in america a 2nd time

My entire point was that @Heartbreaker didnt understand what we are talking about.

It is entirely possible the conservatives will win in the future. It does not change the fact that their embrace of Trumpism cost them votes.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I agree that external factors were more important than their messaging. Their messaging, however, emphasizes those external factors. That’s dumb!

They were hammering that message for over two years, and it was working great. The ground only shifted at the end when Trump started attacking Canada.

I suppose the could have tried to walk it back at the last minute, but that was their brand at that point. Brand building takes time. There were two years of Poilievre on video ranting about immigration and woke, DEI, freedom of speech, etc:

 

[eelw]

It is entirely possible the conservatives will win in the future. It does not change the fact that their embrace of Trumpism cost them votes.

Not true. His base just dug down harder. The supposed fence sitters that have normally voted 3rd party NDP went full left wing nutjob and swung back around to the right. It’s the French Canadians that normally vote for the regional party that voted country over party that ensured the Liberals remained in power

 

[fskimospy]

Not true. His base just dug down harder. The supposed fence sitters that have normally voted 3rd party NDP went full left wing nutjob and swung back around to the right. It’s the French Canadians that normally vote for the regional party that voted country over party that ensured the Liberals remained in power

Interesting idea that the people who lost had the best strategy.

 

[fskimospy]

They were hammering that message for over two years, and it was working great. The ground only shifted at the end when Trump started attacking Canada.

I suppose the could have tried to walk it back at the last minute, but that was their brand at that point. Brand building takes time. There were two years of Poilievre on video ranting about immigration and woke, DEI, freedom of speech, etc:

So they hammered a message for two years and then lost.

I mean imagine what a total failure that is. You worked for years on a message and then got demolished.

Seems like a bad plan.

 

[Indus]

So they hammered a message for two years and then lost.

I mean imagine what a total failure that is. You worked for years on a message and then got demolished.

Seems like a bad plan.

What do we think of the dems plan then?

They had every advantage and hammered abortion, healthcare.. but we all know what happened..

 

[fskimospy]

What do we think of the dems plan then?

They had every advantage and hammered abortion, healthcare.. but we all know what happened..

They had every disadvantage. What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Indus]

They had every disadvantage. What on earth are you talking about?

Trump sabotaged the border deal.
Trump got rid of abortion.
Trump wanted to eliminate max copays on insulin.
Trump led a insurrection against democracy.
Trump wanted to place tariffs.

These should be advantages. How did the dems manage to lose this?

 

[Heartbreaker]

So they hammered a message for two years and then lost.

I mean imagine what a total failure that is. You worked for years on a message and then got demolished.

Seems like a bad plan.

You are again ignoring the massive external changes in circumstances at the last minute.

And again pretending they got demolished which they didn't. They got their highest vote share in 40+ years.

It's only a last minute triple hail Mary that saved us from PM Poilievre.

 

[Jaskalas]

Trump sabotaged the border deal.
Trump got rid of abortion.
Trump wanted to eliminate max copays on insulin.
Trump led a insurrection against democracy.
Trump wanted to place tariffs.

These should be advantages. How did the dems manage to lose this?

No primary. No charismatic leader to whip up the crowd for votes.
Incumbency left us holding the bag for COVID. No shit costs increased. But we had no one who could overcome and explain that.
Then Trump lies about everything, so his lies sounded better to the people.

 

[fskimospy]

You are again ignoring the massive external changes in circumstances at the last minute.

And again pretending they got demolished which they didn't. They got their highest vote share in 40+ years.

It's only a last minute triple hail Mary that saved us from PM Poilievre.

I’m not sure what you aren’t understanding here, lol.

 

[fskimospy]

Trump sabotaged the border deal.
Trump got rid of abortion.
Trump wanted to eliminate max copays on insulin.
Trump led a insurrection against democracy.
Trump wanted to place tariffs.

These should be advantages. How did the dems manage to lose this?

This is about Canada you crazy idiot.

 

[eelw]

You are again ignoring the massive external changes in circumstances at the last minute.

And again pretending they got demolished which they didn't. They got their highest vote share in 40+ years.

It's only a last minute triple hail Mary that saved us from PM Poilievre.

The only point fskimospy is trying to make, was that they blew the huge lead. But yes, even though we beat Maple MAGA this time, 40% of Canadians support them which is scary. Their pocket book apparently more Important than turning into a fascist nation

 

[Heartbreaker]

I’m not sure what you aren’t understanding here, lol.

Not sure why you are arguing in bad faith.

I was curious about the The Deja Vu. So I checked. It was literally you that was making the same argument about GOP/Trump after Biden won.

Exaggerating the loss, and assuming that Trump with GOP was over.

You had the same kind of wishful thinking about Trumps loss as you do about Poilievre, and were convinced Trump did so badly GOP would be done if they ran with him again.

Page 3 - Odds of conviction?

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forums.anandtech.com

You are basically retreading that argument again. History has shown how completely wrong you were.

 

[fskimospy]

Not sure why you are arguing in bad faith.

I was curious about the The Deja Vu. So I checked. It was literally you that was making the same argument about GOP/Trump after Biden won.

Exaggerating the loss, and assuming that Trump with GOP was over.

You had the same kind of wishful thinking about Trumps loss as you do about Poilievre, and were convinced Trump did so badly GOP would be done if they ran with him again.

Page 3 - Odds of conviction?

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You are basically retreading that argument again. History has shown how completely wrong you were.

When people hear things they don’t like they find it easier to decide the other person is arguing in bad faith. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again. If you are never wrong you aren’t making real predictions.

All that being said if you think the strategy that lead to the most catastrophic loss in Canadian history is a good strategy I imagine you can make a lot of money betting on this. I encourage you to try!

 

[Indus]

This is about Canada you crazy idiot.

It's not a Canada thread.

You were making fun of the Canuck conservaterrorists for having a plan for 2 years and not getting it across the line.

I just used your logic for the dems performance and asked you how is that any different?

If you don't have an answer.. you don't have an answer. But don't move the goalposts.

 

[outriding]

Are we going to pretend that the answer isn't obvious? Clearly Trump swore an oath and has to uphold it.
Homer has a fixation on the few here that don't share his belief system, that's a Homer problem, not a greenman problem. Or perhaps it is my problem in that I don't care who agrees or disagrees with me. My beliefs aren't going to change in the hope that I'll be popular. The concept of doing such a thing makes me feel dirty.

Only if there was something trump did that would make it seem like we would know he would do this…


I guess the…

Stealing from a children’s cancer charity
Setting up a fake university
34 felony counts
Sexual assault guilt charges

Only if there was more…

You are dumber than a bag of hammers

 

[kage69]

Playing pretend? Someone is.

You know you've got fuck all to stand on when you're claiming a coup leader gives a shit about upholding an oath of office.

 

[Heartbreaker]

All that being said if you think the strategy that lead to the most catastrophic loss in Canadian history is a good strategy I imagine you can make a lot of money betting on this. I encourage you to try!

This is just disingenuous bad faith. Borderline trolling now.

This was the Conservatives best result by any metric in 15 years, and 40+ year in popular vote. For perspective compare to actual catastrophes, they won 144 seats this time.

Are you totally ignorant about Canadian politics? Because that is not historic loss. Not even remotely close.

There have been real catastrophic losses in my voting life:

2011 - The Liberals were crushed winning only 34 seats.

1993 - The then Progressive conservative were absolutely crushed winning only 2 Seats, after winning a majority the previous election.

144 seat opposition. Thats the biggest opposition in decades. In contention for the smallest loss, not the most catastrophic.

 

[Heartbreaker]

The only point fskimospy is trying to make, was that they blew the huge lead. But yes, even though we beat Maple MAGA this time, 40% of Canadians support them which is scary. Their pocket book apparently more Important than turning into a fascist nation

Pre election polling is means dick. The only poll that matter is the one were we count real votes. He's grasping at straws to create some kind of massive loss narrative, when reality was this was their best result in 15 years...

Anyway, the "Trudeau Resigns" thread is probably a better place to continue discussing Canada's election.

Page 26 - Trudeau resigns.

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forums.anandtech.com

Let's return this one to discussion of the Orange Violator of the US Constitution.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Being a pariah state doesn't have any advantages, but could have severe, permanent disadvantages. Trump may not care about good will, but we all knows he's a big ass snowflake pussy too. Although he wants nothing more than being a strong man dictator, he cares deeply what other world leaders think about him.

Finally, unlike his depravity, Trump's powers are not boundless. While it may be hard to imagine at this time, the U.S. still has the 25th Amendment and impeachment cards if the most extreme end games ever came into play. Unfortunately the GOP has almost completely caved to Trump, so the bar to reaching a full-on Constitutional crisis is extremely high.

If Trump orders an invasion of a NATO ally and thus plunges the U.S. into an economic depression*, his place in history is sealed as a madman and failure.

* I don't see how the U.S. avoids economic ruin when 95% of the world decides to abandon the status quo with U.S. hegemony. I honestly don't know what it would look like, but there would be massive social unrest here in the U.S. as well. (Scale up the current anti-Tesla protests by an order of magnitude.)

I agree it would be totally insane, and would be ruinous for the USA. But I don't think either would stop Trump.

Trump even seems to admire Kim Jong Un, leader of a pariah, economic basket case. He seems to admire no reasonable leaders of democracies, but only Authoritarians and Dictators, no matter how incompetent or evil.

Trumps brain is wired wrong, so things that make zero sense to normal reasonable people, are desirable to him.

We have to count on some people inside the USA stopping him. Because I still think if he had the power, he would try it.

 

[kage69]