Dodge Viper runs 7:12.13 at the Nurburgring

[exdeath]

LOL Euros owned by push rods once again.

 

[punjabiplaya]

This is just a battle of tires now.

Still, 'MERICA!

 

[Pariah]

Errm... That's not the production car record... Why the fuck do I keep reading this shit...

The (English) Radical SR8 got round there quicker.
The Gumpert Apollo Sport got round there quicker...

Top Gear tested the Radical on their track, and though it is street legal there, you won't find it on the power lap board. The Radical can't clear a speed bump which is one of the stipulations for making the board besides being street legal. Any car that can't clear a speed bump shouldn't be considered street legal. Ignoring that every mall and shopping center around here has speed bumps, most of the streets in my neighborhood have had speed bumps installed in recent years to slow down residents. A car like the Radical would be completely useless here.

Also, though it is possible, it is an extreme pain in the ass to get one to be road legal in the US. Basically, you have to import it in pieces, with the engine and chassis purchased seperately. Then you have to purchase an additional package which contains parts to make it road legal (horn, mufflers, indicators, etc.) Then you have to get a third party to put it together for you, and then it has to get registered as a kit car. That doesn't exactly fit the definition of production car, so it can't be considered an international production car since it isn't in America at least.

As far as the Apollo goes. Understanding that there are no "official" ring records, I don't think that record is widely recognized because it was achieved by a German magazine, as opposed to the manufacturer or other reputable source.

 

[Elganja]

so there is some confusion.. I'll try to clear some up (or create even more confusion)...

The red car, is a Dodge Viper ACR-X ran a 7:03 that day...

The black car, is a Dodge Viper ACR ran a 7:12 that day...

 

[HAL9000]

LOL Euros owned by push rods once again.

Yeah you're right! Congrats on being third behind two European cars... Lol.

Top Gear tested the Radical on their track, and though it is street legal there, you won't find it on the power lap board. The Radical can't clear a speed bump which is one of the stipulations for making the board besides being street legal. Any car that can't clear a speed bump shouldn't be considered street legal. Ignoring that every mall and shopping center around here has speed bumps, most of the streets in my neighborhood have had speed bumps installed in recent years to slow down residents. A car like the Radical would be completely useless here.

True, it can't be on the power lap board unless it can clear a speed bump, but it is street legal in the UK.

Also, though it is possible, it is an extreme pain in the ass to get one to be road legal in the US. Basically, you have to import it in pieces, with the engine and chassis purchased seperately. Then you have to purchase an additional package which contains parts to make it road legal (horn, mufflers, indicators, etc.) Then you have to get a third party to put it together for you, and then it has to get registered as a kit car. That doesn't exactly fit the definition of production car, so it can't be considered an international production car since it isn't in America at least.

It may not be available in America but it is an international production car as it is in production and you can buy it in more than one country...

As far as the Apollo goes. Understanding that there are no "official" ring records, I don't think that record is widely recognized because it was achieved by a German magazine, as opposed to the manufacturer or other reputable source.

It doesn't really matter who achieved it does it...?

Also the nurburgring lap record for a production car (non street legal) is held by the Pagani Zonda R, i'd be interested to know what the street legal version can do it in.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Top Gear tested the Radical on their track, and though it is street legal there, you won't find it on the power lap board. The Radical can't clear a speed bump which is one of the stipulations for making the board besides being street legal. Any car that can't clear a speed bump shouldn't be considered street legal. Ignoring that every mall and shopping center around here has speed bumps, most of the streets in my neighborhood have had speed bumps installed in recent years to slow down residents. A car like the Radical would be completely useless here.

Also, though it is possible, it is an extreme pain in the ass to get one to be road legal in the US. Basically, you have to import it in pieces, with the engine and chassis purchased seperately. Then you have to purchase an additional package which contains parts to make it road legal (horn, mufflers, indicators, etc.) Then you have to get a third party to put it together for you, and then it has to get registered as a kit car. That doesn't exactly fit the definition of production car, so it can't be considered an international production car since it isn't in America at least.

As far as the Apollo goes. Understanding that there are no "official" ring records, I don't think that record is widely recognized because it was achieved by a German magazine, as opposed to the manufacturer or other reputable source.

yeah, i thought the SR8 was a kit car.

 

[HAL9000]

yeah, i thought the SR8 was a kit car.

It's not.

 

[Elganja]

Yeah you're right! Congrats on being third behind two European cars... Lol.



True, it can't be on the power lap board unless it can clear a speed bump, but it is street legal in the UK.



It may not be available in America but it is an international production car as it is in production and you can buy it in more than one country...



It doesn't really matter who achieved it does it...?

Also the nurburgring lap record for a production car (non street legal) is held by the Pagani Zonda R, i'd be interested to know what the street legal version can do it in.

by a street car, you mean streets that have no bumps anywhere? I bet you can't even drive that car in london without breaking something, or left teeter totting.

I don't know how you can even call a Radical S8 a production when they are all custom built to order. Do they even have a showroom where you can see a new one?

That viper acr you can actually go to a showroom and buy it today. They got the black one from Tombell Dodge ... you know a dealership where you go buy production cars. And guess what? They have 9 more ready to be bought.

The Radical S8 and Viper ACR are in different classes IMHO (hell even top gear, your british car show, won't allow it on the power lap list!)

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah I don't understand all the bitching from either side on this one. The Viper, the Radical, and the Gumpert (ugh that name) are all incredibly impressive vehicles that are all quite different. The Radical really is spectacular, but it's hard to deny that it's a track queen. You'd have to be an idiot to drive one on the streets, it's just not made for it, no matter what their PR guy says. That's fine, because if it were made for it, it'd be less effective as a track demon. For what it is capable of, it's a damned bargain, and an awesome feat for such a small outfit that produces it. The Viper is that much more impressive in the opposite way. Aside from the sheer brutality of the track capability, it's still completely streetable, and you can drive it right off the dealer lot and DD the thing if you really want to.

Apples / oranges.

But in this case they're f'ing awesome apples and oranges.

 

[GTSRguy]

I dont consider radical and gumpert to be road cars, they are track cars which have been made street legal. I dont consider an arial atom a real road car again, it has no roof and is a go-kart.

Not only did the Viper run a 7:12 but that car is under engineered and team Viper was strapped for cash. They could strip 150lbs from the car with a new chassis. The Viper coupe uses the roadster chassis to save money. The roadster chassis has alot more material/weight in it to deal with the lack of a roof.

The ACR isnt much different than a normal Viper, the interior is the same. The differences are suspention, tires, gearing and an aero kit. Americans always bitch about HP HP HP, but notice the engine in the ACR is the exact same on as the regular SRT. The only thing that lets this car kick ass is the giant wing and suspention - things americans arnt usually fans of. If you want to kick butt at the ring, you will need more than just power.

 

[ponyo]

The ACR isnt much different than a normal Viper, the interior is the same. The differences are suspention, tires, gearing and an aero kit. Americans always bitch about HP HP HP, but notice the engine in the ACR is the exact same on as the regular SRT. The only thing that lets this car kick ass is the giant wing and suspention - things americans arnt usually fans of. If you want to kick butt at the ring, you will need more than just power.

The Ring rewards HP over anything else. It's a power track.

Americans are not against giant wings. Track and race cars have always used it. We just make fun of the giant ones on beatup Accords and Civics on the street.

We have cheap gas or used to and straight wide roads. Makes sense to favor HP and torque over suspension.

 

[Pariah]

It's not.

It is in America, which also happens to be far and away the largest car market in the world. If the car can't be considered a production car in any of the major markets, for any reason beside the manufacturer doesn't feel like selling it there, then it isn't a production car. The fact that that the industry doesn't recognize the Radical time as a production car (and no one has made any effort to dispute it) is all the proof that is necessary.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I really wish they would take a modern F1 car to set a hot lap there. Man, that would be something.

 

[thegimp03]

I really wish they would take a modern F1 car to set a hot lap there. Man, that would be something.

Would be amazing to see that. However, they'd have to choose a driver who basically has a deathwish.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Would be amazing to see that. However, they'd have to choose a driver who basically has a deathwish.

Nick Heidfeld drove it in his BMW F1 car a few years ago but they only let him do 1 or 2 laps and he wasn't allowed to go all out. He said he would like to return to do a few timed hot laps to see what the car is capable of.

 

[Miramonti]

Nice time. That's 0-60, right?

😛

 

[ThatsABigOne]

LOL Euros owned by push rods once again.

It's ok. We will beat your arrogant push rods. :thumbsdown:

 

[zCypher]

Yeah I don't understand all the bitching from either side on this one. The Viper, the Radical, and the Gumpert (ugh that name) are all incredibly impressive vehicles that are all quite different. The Radical really is spectacular, but it's hard to deny that it's a track queen. You'd have to be an idiot to drive one on the streets, it's just not made for it, no matter what their PR guy says. That's fine, because if it were made for it, it'd be less effective as a track demon. For what it is capable of, it's a damned bargain, and an awesome feat for such a small outfit that produces it. The Viper is that much more impressive in the opposite way. Aside from the sheer brutality of the track capability, it's still completely streetable, and you can drive it right off the dealer lot and DD the thing if you really want to.

Apples / oranges.

But in this case they're f'ing awesome apples and oranges.

This. I see a Viper every day on my way to work every day, lives in a run down apartment but has a Viper. hehehe

 

[JulesMaximus]

Yeah I don't understand all the bitching from either side on this one. The Viper, the Radical, and the Gumpert (ugh that name) are all incredibly impressive vehicles that are all quite different. The Radical really is spectacular, but it's hard to deny that it's a track queen. You'd have to be an idiot to drive one on the streets, it's just not made for it, no matter what their PR guy says. That's fine, because if it were made for it, it'd be less effective as a track demon. For what it is capable of, it's a damned bargain, and an awesome feat for such a small outfit that produces it. The Viper is that much more impressive in the opposite way. Aside from the sheer brutality of the track capability, it's still completely streetable, and you can drive it right off the dealer lot and DD the thing if you really want to.

Apples / oranges.

But in this case they're f'ing awesome apples and oranges.

I'm not sure how great the Viper is at being a daily driver. From everything I've read the Corvette is much much better at that task.

I live in the land of Ferraris/Lambos and any other exotic you can name and I see very very few people using a Viper as a daily driver. I see a lot of Corvettes though.

 

[exdeath]

I see very very few people using a Viper as a daily driver. I see a lot of Corvettes though.

That's like saying you see more Camrys than Maybachs. Base C6 Corvettes even around this mud hole are as common as V6 Mustangs and 325i BMWs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That's like saying you see more Camrys than Maybachs. Base C6 Corvettes even around this mud hole are as common as V6 Mustangs and 325i BMWs.

Allow me to clarify. In the past year on my 60 mile round trip commute in San Diego I've seen exactly 1 Viper in my daily commute a few times regularly. And I saw him maybe half a dozen times. And it was a GTS. I've seen a bazillion Corvettes, even Z06s.

V6 Mustangs and 325 BMWs are rental cars. A Mexican house maid wouldn't even drive my 8 year old Maxima.

 

[Arkaign]

I'm not sure how great the Viper is at being a daily driver. From everything I've read the Corvette is much much better at that task.

I live in the land of Ferraris/Lambos and any other exotic you can name and I see very very few people using a Viper as a daily driver. I see a lot of Corvettes though.

It might vary on the area. I'm in DFW, and Vipers aren't super common, but I'd say I see 4-5 Vipers for every exotic I see, and most of those are DDs (I go onsite to dozens of businesses a month, so I'm always curious when I see a Viper parked in front of an office I'm entering).

It wouldn't be my first choice as a performance DD, but who knows, maybe that V10 is just that addictive. I don't think it'd be much more severe than a Z06 really, and those things are _everywhere_.

I've noticed way different tastes on the west coast and east coast vs. say DFW or Miami in terms of vehicle choices. Porsche is huge here, we have the only RAC/RUF in the states up here. Ferrari is oddly a lot more rare than Lambos here, which I see constantly. Also heaps of Astons, Maseratis, and Bentleys. I get excited when I see something truly rare here, such as a Noble, Shelby Aero, or Reventon. I've literally only seen a single Reventon and a single Shelby Aero, while I've seen several Veyrons.

 

[Pariah]

Allow me to clarify. In the past year on my 60 mile round trip commute in San Diego I've seen exactly 1 Viper in my daily commute a few times regularly. And I saw him maybe half a dozen times. And it was a GTS. I've seen a bazillion Corvettes, even Z06s.

Over the last 4 years (2007-2010), Chrysler sold 2481 Vipers. Lamborghini sold 5724 Gallardos over the same stretch of time. The Viper is a very low volume car. I don't understand the comparison to the Corvette which costs about half as much. At $90k base, the Viper is still about $15k more than a Z06. Pricewise in 2010, the Viper fell right between the Z06 and the ZR1.

 

[ponyo]

Over the last 4 years (2007-2010), Chrysler sold 2481 Vipers. Lamborghini sold 5724 Gallardos over the same stretch of time. The Viper is a very low volume car. I don't understand the comparison to the Corvette which costs about half as much. At $90k base, the Viper is still about $15k more than a Z06. Pricewise in 2010, the Viper fell right between the Z06 and the ZR1.

Correct. Dodge Viper is extremely low production car. You're many more times likely to see something like Ferrari 360 on the road than a Gen I or II Viper. Around 25,000 Vipers were produced in all from 1992-2010. That's around 1,400 Vipers a year. In comparison, Ferrari made around 17,000 F360 for its 5 year production run, or 3,400 a year. Dodge Viper lifetime production run is less than one year of something like Porsche 911 or Chevy Corvette. Heck in 2006, Porsche made and sold around 36,000 Porsche 911. People always mention how common Corvettes are but fail to mention Porsche 911 are just as common.

 

[HAL9000]

It is in America, which also happens to be far and away the largest car market in the world. If the car can't be considered a production car in any of the major markets, for any reason beside the manufacturer doesn't feel like selling it there, then it isn't a production car. The fact that that the industry doesn't recognize the Radical time as a production car (and no one has made any effort to dispute it) is all the proof that is necessary.

1) The industry does recognise it, if you google the official fastest production car list you'll spot the radical at the top.
2) are you seriously saying that cars sold in europe, if not sold in america can't be considered a production car?! Because that's insanity.
3) America's laws are different, the same as the laws in say England are different which is why some American cars are not street legal here... That doesn't mean the aren't production cars.
4) Even if you for some reason ignore the radical you can't ignore the Gumpert.