Doctors Want Nothing To Do With Medicare

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Hacp
There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.

Stop that silly talk. Logic has no place in the health-care industry.

Medical students are lining up in droves to devote themselves to a lifetime of non-stop education for the opportunity to face million dollar lawsuits every step of the way

Like I said earlier, malpractice insurance and settlements comprise less than 2% of health care spending.

I don't think physicians salaries are a major component either, yet many think that they can see huge savings if they drive down their pay.

 

[JohnnyGage]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Hacp
There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.

Stop that silly talk. Logic has no place in the health-care industry.

Medical students are lining up in droves to devote themselves to a lifetime of non-stop education for the opportunity to face million dollar lawsuits every step of the way

Like I said earlier, malpractice insurance and settlements comprise less than 2% of health care spending.

I've heard that as well. But there is tons of CYA going around and that is probably unmeasurable. There can be a bunch of second guessing that can come back to the MD. Did that study include total cases brought to court or just the settlements? I've heard from a malpractice laywer that patients only win something like 10-20% total of malpractice cases.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: JohnnyGage

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Hacp
There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.

Stop that silly talk. Logic has no place in the health-care industry.

Medical students are lining up in droves to devote themselves to a lifetime of non-stop education for the opportunity to face million dollar lawsuits every step of the way

Like I said earlier, malpractice insurance and settlements comprise less than 2% of health care spending.

I've heard that as well. But there is tons of CYA going around and that is probably unmeasurable. There can be a bunch of second guessing that can come back to the MD. Did that study include total cases brought to court or just the settlements? I've heard from a malpractice laywer that patients only win something like 10-20% total of malpractice cases.

All spending related to malpractice, from insurance premiums, to legal costs, to payouts if they lose.

EDIT: Also if you're referring to defensive medicine most studies put that at only a few percent as well. Sure that's wasteful, but it's hardly a major component.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Hacp
There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.

Stop that silly talk. Logic has no place in the health-care industry.

Medical students are lining up in droves to devote themselves to a lifetime of non-stop education for the opportunity to face million dollar lawsuits every step of the way

Like I said earlier, malpractice insurance and settlements comprise less than 2% of health care spending.

I don't think physicians salaries are a major component either, yet many think that they can see huge savings if they drive down their pay.

Well about 25% of health care spending goes to doctors, so driving down their pay could in fact lead to some noticeable savings. I for one am a proponent of minting more doctors in the US here each year, as we seem to have a bit of an artificial shortage.

I'm not a fan of limiting malpractice claims in any way however, as one of the primary purposes of our courts is to decide how much each case is worth. So while in both cases some 'reform' might only save us a few %, one is correcting an inefficiency in my mind, and the other is screwing with people's basic right to seek damages.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The problem is that if you slash the pay to get anything significant, there is no carrot to take on the responsibility of keeping people healthy and alive. There is no reason to subject yourself to that for 50K, or even 90.

I know that I am not encouraging either of my children to take up a health care profession. It's clearly heading in the direction of more work, less pay and little appreciation. Too bad. They'd have been good at it, but I see the writing on the wall.

 

[Zebo]

You aint seen nothin' yet! Wait till baby boomers start tapping the system. My bet is no doctors will take medicare because there will be enough boomers with private insurance and cash to overwhelm to limited supply of doctors.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The problem is that if you slash the pay to get anything significant, there is no carrot to take on the responsibility of keeping people healthy and alive. There is no reason to subject yourself to that for 50K, or even 90.

I know that I am not encouraging either of my children to take up a health care profession. It's clearly heading in the direction of more work, less pay and little appreciation. Too bad. They'd have been good at it, but I see the writing on the wall.

Well, that's your opinion. Other countries manage just fine with lower doctor salaries, and we will too.

What's this talk about $50k, or $90k? The average doctor's salary is way higher than that, between $150-200k. You think that your salary is going to be cut 66% or more? That's silliness. Even a 10% cut in doctor's salaries would accomplish about the same thing as the elimination of malpractice insurance and lawsuits in their entirety. So yes, I think we can cut doctors' salaries enough to achieve a measurable effect without reducing the incentive to join the profession to unmanageable levels.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The problem is that if you slash the pay to get anything significant, there is no carrot to take on the responsibility of keeping people healthy and alive. There is no reason to subject yourself to that for 50K, or even 90.

I know that I am not encouraging either of my children to take up a health care profession. It's clearly heading in the direction of more work, less pay and little appreciation. Too bad. They'd have been good at it, but I see the writing on the wall.

Well, that's your opinion. Other countries manage just fine with lower doctor salaries, and we will too.

What's this talk about $50k, or $90k? The average doctor's salary is way higher than that, between $150-200k. You think that your salary is going to be cut 66% or more? That's silliness. Even a 10% cut in doctor's salaries would accomplish about the same thing as the elimination of malpractice insurance and lawsuits in their entirety. So yes, I think we can cut doctors' salaries enough to achieve a measurable effect without reducing the incentive to join the profession to unmanageable levels.

Well you could save 2%. Considering the many many years it takes to become a physician, they aren't compensated enough.

I also think that if you look at those other countries you'll see that the pay scale is lower for just about everything. Perhaps we ought to cut everyone's pay proportionately. If we cut everyone then you can pay less to MDs. I'm sure everyone would line up for that.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The problem is that if you slash the pay to get anything significant, there is no carrot to take on the responsibility of keeping people healthy and alive. There is no reason to subject yourself to that for 50K, or even 90.

I know that I am not encouraging either of my children to take up a health care profession. It's clearly heading in the direction of more work, less pay and little appreciation. Too bad. They'd have been good at it, but I see the writing on the wall.

Well, that's your opinion. Other countries manage just fine with lower doctor salaries, and we will too.

What's this talk about $50k, or $90k? The average doctor's salary is way higher than that, between $150-200k. You think that your salary is going to be cut 66% or more? That's silliness. Even a 10% cut in doctor's salaries would accomplish about the same thing as the elimination of malpractice insurance and lawsuits in their entirety. So yes, I think we can cut doctors' salaries enough to achieve a measurable effect without reducing the incentive to join the profession to unmanageable levels.

Well you could save 2%. Considering the many many years it takes to become a physician, they aren't compensated enough.

I also think that if you look at those other countries you'll see that the pay scale is lower for just about everything. Perhaps we ought to cut everyone's pay proportionately. If we cut everyone then you can pay less to MDs. I'm sure everyone would line up for that.

No I was talking about pay scales in proportion to median salary. Geez man, I'm not so stupid as to think "well someone earns $5 a day in Angola, I guess we can live on that here too!" I understand that this directly impacts you, and so I completely get why you would be biased on this issue, but that doesn't change the facts. Doctors are in a situation of artificial shortage, and this drives up salaries beyond what they would otherwise be. Artificial shortages are bad no matter what they have to do with.

If you think that because people need to go to school for ten years or so to become a doctor, that a pay scale that puts them in the top 10% or so of all wage earners in the US isn't sufficient compensation, I don't know what to tell you other than you're not being reasonable.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
The problem is that if you slash the pay to get anything significant, there is no carrot to take on the responsibility of keeping people healthy and alive. There is no reason to subject yourself to that for 50K, or even 90.

I know that I am not encouraging either of my children to take up a health care profession. It's clearly heading in the direction of more work, less pay and little appreciation. Too bad. They'd have been good at it, but I see the writing on the wall.

MBA then investment bank.:evil:

Seriously there is more to the profession than money, it's about the least zero sum gain profession out there- what other field can one go into and be so well respected, paid, work anywhere even rural, stimulate mind, be you own boss relatively easy, etc. Back when I was looking into it there were from 1000- 2000 apps for ~ 30-60 seats at schools. In sum there are no shoratges of people wanting to get into the profession or foreigners tying to take the USMLE to practice here. We have a shortage. What new medical school has opened in last 30 years to fill burgening population? Any besides Island schools? The AMA & AOA are worse than any union thug and lobby to prevent openings of schools, foreign grads gaining license, etc. to protect their members, some would say inflated, but definitly artificial, salary.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

Now you're just making an emotional appeal. Shockingly enough nearly everyone in the world thinks they are underpaid for all the hard work that they do and how under appreciated they are. Save it.

I very much know who you are, one of my best friends is a doctor, a girl I dated for 5 years had two doctors in her family that I knew quite well, my roommate and her sister are both nurses. While I'm not one myself, to say that I haven't the least idea about who you are is just silly. You're more than welcome to think that if we cut doctors' pay that nobody will be a doctor anymore, but reality seems to disagree.

Like I said, you're emotionally invested in this and so I understand your bias. I'm just telling you that you can't expect other people to indulge that bias and pay you more for the privilege.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

Please. How many unemployed PhD scientists are there? Lots. Or end up teaching HS. Or those who later, out of financial frustration, go to medical school once they find out their arduous science education paid no dividend. Cry me a river. People spend as many years in school or more and do not get compensated as well as physicians all the time.

Besides you neglect all the fringe benefits and satisfaction i listed above being Physician has, not to mention adjusting to a new reality new economy of 40% job cuts and wage slashing going on in this country... find something else? Ya sure.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

Please. How many unemployed PhD scientists are there? Lots. Or end up teaching HS. Or those who later, out of financial frustration, go to medical school once they find out their arduous science education paid no dividend. Cry me a river. People spend as many years in school or more and do not get compensated as well as physicians all the time.

Besides you neglect all the fringe benefits and satisfaction i listed above being Physician has, not to mention adjusting to a new reality new economy of 40% job cuts and wage slashing going on in this country... find something else? Ya sure.

Well, cut everyone's pay then because you are certainly qualified to know their worth. Go for it.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

Please. How many unemployed PhD scientists are there? Lots. Or end up teaching HS. Or those who later, out of financial frustration, go to medical school once they find out their arduous science education paid no dividend. Cry me a river. People spend as many years in school or more and do not get compensated as well as physicians all the time.

Besides you neglect all the fringe benefits and satisfaction i listed above being Physician has, not to mention adjusting to a new reality new economy of 40% job cuts and wage slashing going on in this country... find something else? Ya sure.

Well, cut everyone's pay then because you are certainly qualified to know their worth. Go for it.

I'm not qualified at all, but market is - however it's an artificial market currently. All I ask is similar openness to trade as any other... from engineers to lawyers. I chose those because both have exams as well - but at least their sanctioning bodies opens new schools each year, does not limit class size, allows any number of foreigners to come etc. Unlike AMA/AOA cartel.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Actually it doesn't impact me personally at all. I'm just know more about the day to day of health care, and you are creating disincentives for the best minds to be in health care. Since that's what you want to do then, hey go for it.

I can tell you though that many of the better people I know are considering other fields. There are those who will fill their spots though, although not as good. Hopefully they are good enough.

That's not really accurate. What we are doing is removing artificial incentives that should never have existed in the first place.

That's your perspective, and that's fine. Explain to those who I've already mentioned that they are overpaid, and see how that goes. Lower the standards, open the doors and drop their pay and see who comes running. You expect the health care workers to suck up the loss and then tell them they were getting paid too much to begin with. I'm not trying to be rude, but you haven't the least idea about who we are. We make life and death decisions every day and what we hear is that we aren't worth it. Maybe that's not what you intend to say, but there's no real difference. Now bring out charts and graphs of Belgium or whatever and try to explain why we make too much, and we'll look at you and wonder what you would be paid if you were outsourced. We're assets, yet to hear some people you'd think we were liabilities.

Again, this doesn't impact me, because we'll find something else. I know I can although it would be inconvenient. Tell someone who invests 6 to 12 years of their lives that 150K is overpriced. You'll soon find out what a shortage of practitioners is.

Please. How many unemployed PhD scientists are there? Lots. Or end up teaching HS. Or those who later, out of financial frustration, go to medical school once they find out their arduous science education paid no dividend. Cry me a river. People spend as many years in school or more and do not get compensated as well as physicians all the time.

Besides you neglect all the fringe benefits and satisfaction i listed above being Physician has, not to mention adjusting to a new reality new economy of 40% job cuts and wage slashing going on in this country... find something else? Ya sure.

Well, cut everyone's pay then because you are certainly qualified to know their worth. Go for it.

I'm not qualified at all, but market is - however it's an artificial market currently. All I ask is similar openness to trade as any other... from engineers to lawyers. I chose those because both have exams as well - but at least their sanctioning bodies opens new schools each year, does not limit class size, allows any number of foreigners to come etc. Unlike AMA/AOA cartel.

Health care is about as far away from a free market as possible, and not in the sense you mean.

Consider this:

You fill up your car with gas, and then hand the owner of the business a card. You pay $10 for the tank of gas. Now you go to the market and buy 3 pounds of fillet of beef. You hand the cashier your card. You pay 3 dollars.

Now the owners of both business can submit a bill for a thousand dollars if they like. The people issuing the card will pay 10 more dollars for the gas, and 3 more for the beef. You pay the card issuer a fee per month to use the card.

Does that sound like the free market to you? Oh, one can refuse to take the card, but in this scenario almost everyone has one. You don't set your prices, they are set for you and if you decide not to take what is offered, you are out of business.


That's health care today. I dispensed a very expensive medication this week. Our actual acquisition for this drug was about $2300. We were reimbursed $2185 plus $1.75 for a dispensing fee. Yeah, the numbers are correct. How we don't go broke is that we make money (ever less BTW) on generics, and the rest of the store picks up the rest of the slack.

That's the free market.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider



That's health care today. I dispensed a very expensive medication this week. Our actual acquisition for this drug was about $2300. We were reimbursed $2185 plus $1.75 for a dispensing fee. Yeah, the numbers are correct. How we don't go broke is that we make money (ever less BTW) on generics, and the rest of the store picks up the rest of the slack.

That's the free market.

unfortunatley thats how a lot of business' work. I work in the construction field and it very common to bid work and sign a contract for a job that may not start for 3-6 months. Ever hear of the price spikes of plywood because of huricanes etc? I recall one job where it cost 14k for just the sheathing. Ontop of that, all labor is estimated.

doctors do noble work however when a person goes to the hospital for 1-2 days and gets billed for their annual salary...the public is going to villanize you.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: Hacp
There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.

Stop that silly talk. Logic has no place in the health-care industry.

Medical students are lining up in droves to devote themselves to a lifetime of non-stop education for the opportunity to face million dollar lawsuits every step of the way

Like I said earlier, malpractice insurance and settlements comprise less than 2% of health care spending.

I don't think physicians salaries are a major component either, yet many think that they can see huge savings if they drive down their pay.

Well about 25% of health care spending goes to doctors, so driving down their pay could in fact lead to some noticeable savings. I for one am a proponent of minting more doctors in the US here each year, as we seem to have a bit of an artificial shortage.

I'm not a fan of limiting malpractice claims in any way however, as one of the primary purposes of our courts is to decide how much each case is worth. So while in both cases some 'reform' might only save us a few %, one is correcting an inefficiency in my mind, and the other is screwing with people's basic right to seek damages.

Thats not true, physicians salaries totaled about 120 billion in 2008 (700000 US physicians times avg salary 170K), while total health care spending was 2.4 trillion. Making physician reimbursement about 5% of the total heath outlay.

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider



That's health care today. I dispensed a very expensive medication this week. Our actual acquisition for this drug was about $2300. We were reimbursed $2185 plus $1.75 for a dispensing fee. Yeah, the numbers are correct. How we don't go broke is that we make money (ever less BTW) on generics, and the rest of the store picks up the rest of the slack.

That's the free market.

unfortunatley thats how a lot of business' work. I work in the construction field and it very common to bid work and sign a contract for a job that may not start for 3-6 months. Ever hear of the price spikes of plywood because of huricanes etc? I recall one job where it cost 14k for just the sheathing. Ontop of that, all labor is estimated.

doctors do noble work however when a person goes to the hospital for 1-2 days and gets billed for their annual salary...the public is going to villanize you.

But that bill doesnt come from the doctors, it comes from the hospital.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider



That's health care today. I dispensed a very expensive medication this week. Our actual acquisition for this drug was about $2300. We were reimbursed $2185 plus $1.75 for a dispensing fee. Yeah, the numbers are correct. How we don't go broke is that we make money (ever less BTW) on generics, and the rest of the store picks up the rest of the slack.

That's the free market.

unfortunatley thats how a lot of business' work. I work in the construction field and it very common to bid work and sign a contract for a job that may not start for 3-6 months. Ever hear of the price spikes of plywood because of huricanes etc? I recall one job where it cost 14k for just the sheathing. Ontop of that, all labor is estimated.

doctors do noble work however when a person goes to the hospital for 1-2 days and gets billed for their annual salary...the public is going to villanize you.

But that bill doesnt come from the doctors, it comes from the hospital.

thats irrelevent

I used to go to a dentist who had 45 patients on his calendar for the day. He gave me an injection and started drilling the tooth about 2 mins later, he was openly annoyed when I objected to the pain.

He went to work on the other patients he had in his chairs and returned about 20 min. later. He also reused his rubber gloves(placed them on tray) each time he came into the room.

His office was closed each friday....

I could be wrong but imo he was greedy, cared more about his day off then patient care.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward.

Not according to them:

The doctors? reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.


Not surprising, of course. One of my Dermatologist friends was talking about how he was compensated a whopping $.50 by Medicare for administering injections, so he dumped those patients altogether.

Well lets see, an injection takes 15 seconds, another 20 or so for the patient to leave the room and another enter... So that comes to what, $28 an hour?

Oh wait, he also nailed them on the way in for just showing up, must be awful to be a doctor.

Who the hell does your injections in 15 seconds? A heroin junkie needing a fix?

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: bctbct

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider



That's health care today. I dispensed a very expensive medication this week. Our actual acquisition for this drug was about $2300. We were reimbursed $2185 plus $1.75 for a dispensing fee. Yeah, the numbers are correct. How we don't go broke is that we make money (ever less BTW) on generics, and the rest of the store picks up the rest of the slack.

That's the free market.

unfortunatley thats how a lot of business' work. I work in the construction field and it very common to bid work and sign a contract for a job that may not start for 3-6 months. Ever hear of the price spikes of plywood because of huricanes etc? I recall one job where it cost 14k for just the sheathing. Ontop of that, all labor is estimated.

doctors do noble work however when a person goes to the hospital for 1-2 days and gets billed for their annual salary...the public is going to villanize you.

But that bill doesnt come from the doctors, it comes from the hospital.

thats irrelevent

I used to go to a dentist who had 45 patients on his calendar for the day. He gave me an injection and started drilling the tooth about 2 mins later, he was openly annoyed when I objected to the pain.

He went to work on the other patients he had in his chairs and returned about 20 min. later. He also reused his rubber gloves(placed them on tray) each time he came into the room.

His office was closed each friday....

I could be wrong but imo he was greedy, cared more about his day off then patient care.

No its not because the doctors isnt getting paid, the hospital is. You get billed a separate "professional fee" for the physician usually. And dentists are completely different, everyone knows they're greedy suckers.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward. The efficiency argument comes into place when you deal with the insurance companies that co-opt medicare.

Regardless of your market/government idealogies, medicare has done wonders for the elderly. Don't throw the baby...or...well.....elderly in this case, out with the bathwater.

To late its already happened. Baby boomers lost 50%+ there 401ks. By the time we all retire SS be broken . None will get what there suppose to. For the Elderly this event in time is incomprehensiable