Doctors Want Nothing To Do With Medicare

winnar111

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04.../02health.html?_r=1&em

EARLY this year, Barbara Plumb, a freelance editor and writer in New York who is on Medicare, received a disturbing letter. Her gynecologist informed her that she was opting out of Medicare. When Ms. Plumb asked her primary-care doctor to recommend another gynecologist who took Medicare, the doctor responded that she didn?t know any ? and that if Ms. Plumb found one she liked, could she call and tell her the name?

Many people, just as they become eligible for Medicare, discover that the insurance rug has been pulled out from under them. Some doctors ? often internists but also gastroenterologists, gynecologists, psychiatrists and other specialists ? are no longer accepting Medicare, either because they have opted out of the insurance system or they are not accepting new patients with Medicare coverage. The doctors? reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.

When shopping for a doctor, ask if he or she is enrolled with Medicare. If the answer is no, that doctor has opted out of the system. Those who are enrolled fall into two categories, participating and nonparticipating. The latter receive a lower reimbursement from Medicare, and the patient has to pick up more of the bill.

Doctors who have opted out of Medicare can charge whatever they want, but they cannot bill Medicare for reimbursement, nor may their patients. Medigap, or supplemental insurance, policies usually do not provide coverage when Medicare doesn?t, so the entire bill is the patient?s responsibility.

The solution to this problem is to find doctors who accept Medicare insurance ? and to do it well before reaching age 65. But that is not always easy, especially if you are looking for an internist, a primary care doctor who deals with adults. Of the 93 internists affiliated with New York-Presbyterian Hospital, for example, only 37 accept Medicare, according to the hospital?s Web site.

Two trends are converging: there is a shortage of internists nationally ? the American College of Physicians, the organization for internists, estimates that by 2025 there will be 35,000 to 45,000 fewer than the population needs ? and internists are increasingly unwilling to accept new Medicare patients.

In a June 2008 report, the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, an independent federal panel that advises Congress on Medicare, said that 28 percent of the Medicare beneficiaries it surveyed who were looking for a primary care doctor had a problem finding one to treat them, up from 24 percent the year before. And a 2008 survey by the Texas Medical Association found that while 58 percent of the state?s doctors took new Medicare patients, only 38 percent of primary care doctors did.

Currently, about 40 million Americans have Medicare insurance, according to medicare.gov. Coverage is provided to those 65 or older, some younger disabled people and people of all ages with end-stage renal disease.

Those approaching Medicare eligibility should talk to their doctors. Even doctors who won?t take new Medicare patients may be willing to allow their existing ones to remain in their care. If they are not, it?s advisable to start looking around. But the search will be easier for people who start early.

?If you have just moved into town and are 64,? said Dr. Jeffrey P. Harris, an internist and the president of the American College of Physicians, ?it is easier for you to see a doctor than if you had just moved into town and are 65.?

Before giving up on a doctor who will not accept Medicare, a patient should ask about signing a private contract that stipulates the patient will be responsible for paying the doctor?s fees and lists exactly what those fees are and what they cover. Some doctors may be willing to negotiate and tailor prices to what patients can afford.

For example, a doctor who charges younger patients with employer health coverage $250 for an office visit might be willing to accept $175 from an older patient who pays cash and requires no insurance claims.

?I have a lady of 93 who pays me $5 a visit, and for her that?s real money,? said Dr. Steven D. Knope, an internist and private contract doctor in Tucson. ?I charge her because then she listens to what I say.?

How do you find a doctor who accepts Medicare? The Web site www.medicare.gov provides a list of enrolled doctors. Other sources are state medical societies and local hospitals, most of which have online directories of doctors. But that?s no guarantee they will see new patients.

Other options are also available. Roughly 18,000 walk-in, stand-alone urgent care centers in the United States are staffed with doctors who set simple fractures, take X-rays, do minor surgery, diagnose ailments and write prescriptions. By far the majority of these centers take Medicare.

Although they were never intended to provide continuing care, ?our primary care practice is growing more than anything else,? said Dr. Franz Ritucci, who is medical director of the American Academy of Urgent Care Medicine and practices at America?s Urgent Care in Orlando, Fla., a chain of walk-in centers that also has clinics in Columbus, Ohio.

The centers are open 12 to 18 hours a day and patients do not need an appointment, though they may have to wait. Some centers allow appointments to see a specific doctor for follow-up.

?If you can hook up with a primary care provider in an urgent care center who is willing? to provide continuing care, said Dr. J. James Rohack, a cardiologist who is president-elect of the American Medical Association, ?then yes, it?s an option.?

Type ?urgent care centers? into a search engine and thousands come up. In June, the Academy of Urgent Care Medicine plans to add a list of centers it has accredited to its Web site, www.aaucm.org.

Another, more expensive option is concierge or ?boutique? care, which comes in two forms. In the most popular kind, doctors accept Medicare and other insurance, but charge patients an annual retainer of $1,600 to $1,800 to get in the door and receive services not covered by Medicare, like annual physicals. Before signing up and paying the retainer, patients should get a written agreement spelling out which services the doctor will bill Medicare for and which the retainer covers. And always check carefully for double-billing.

The other form of concierge medicine ? doctors who have opted out of Medicare ? is more expensive still. Fees range as high as $15,000 a year and cover office visits, access to the doctor when care is needed, referrals to specialists and thorough annual physicals.

Dr. Knope, the author of ?Concierge Medicine: A New System to Get the Best Healthcare,? has this kind of practice in Tucson. His patients sign a contract agreeing to pay $6,000 a year for individuals and $10,000 a year for couples. The fee covers office visits, physical exams and phone consultations, and Dr. Knope will meet patients in the emergency room, see them in the hospital and occasionally make house calls.

A list of about 500 concierge doctors throughout the country is available on Dr. Knope?s Web site, www.conciergemedicinemd.com.

Is the care worth the money? Harold and Margret Thomas, who are in their mid-70s and live in Cincinnati, spend the winter in Tucson. After many phone calls, the couple were unable to find an internist in Tucson who took new Medicare patients, so they signed with Dr. Knope in 1996. Five years ago, when Mrs. Thomas developed a blinding headache, her husband called the doctor at 8 o?clock one night, and he, suspecting an aneurysm, insisted they get to the emergency room immediately.

The doctor met them and ordered an M.R.I. and a CT scan. The tests revealed an aneurysm, and Dr. Knope found a surgeon who quickly operated. Medicare paid for the emergency room, the surgery and the hospital stay.

?If there were a concierge practice in Cincinnati, I?d be part of it there, too,? Harold Thomas said.



So much for the legendary 'efficiency' of socialized medicine. I suppose its terrific when nobody will take it. :laugh:

Good for them. There's no reason to be part of such a fraud-filled, stingy system. $60 billion a year in fraud and nickel & diming paid professionals: Welcome to government healthcare.

And a doctor on retainer sounds like an excellent idea.


 

MovingTarget

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Jun 22, 2003
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I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward. The efficiency argument comes into place when you deal with the insurance companies that co-opt medicare.

Regardless of your market/government idealogies, medicare has done wonders for the elderly. Don't throw the baby...or...well.....elderly in this case, out with the bathwater.
 

SammyJr

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Feb 27, 2008
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All the results of Republican efforts to starve the beast. Things like paying full retail price for prescription drugs can really take a toll.

And concierge medicine, like private health insurance, is great IF YOU HAVE MONEY. Doesn't work so well for fixed income types on Social Security... but wait, you guys want to destroy that too!
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Nobody said socialized medicine would give doctors more pay. It's not surprising they opt out of something that pays them less.
 

winnar111

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Mar 10, 2008
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Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward.

Not according to them:

The doctors? reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.


Not surprising, of course. One of my Dermatologist friends was talking about how he was compensated a whopping $.50 by Medicare for administering injections, so he dumped those patients altogether.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
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Truly the solution is for only the rich to have healthcare, that way the poor people can die the streets like are supposed to. -The Republican Party
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward.

Not according to them:

The doctors? reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.


Not surprising, of course. One of my Dermatologist friends was talking about how he was compensated a whopping $.50 by Medicare for administering injections, so he dumped those patients altogether.
My guess is that in the US with the various situation here it IS a huge hassle. However, I've actually billed for physicians in Canada and the paperwork to my recollection was very straight forward. Each week I had a program and I'd shove in the patient's name and maybe some other data about them if they were not already in the software and the date they were seen and for how long. That was literally all there was to it, then after MSI (which pays physicians in Canada) paid out, they'd send the cash. This was years ago, but I would guess that paper work for doctors in Canada is much lighter than in the US.
 

Genx87

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Apr 8, 2002
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Funny my primary was griping about Medicare for some reason to me on the my last visit 2 weeks ago. We were talking about billing for blood work from the previous year and he asked if Medicare was picking up the tab then went on a rant about it.

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Originally posted by: SammyJr
All the results of Republican efforts to starve the beast. Things like paying full retail price for prescription drugs can really take a toll.

And concierge medicine, like private health insurance, is great IF YOU HAVE MONEY. Doesn't work so well for fixed income types on Social Security... but wait, you guys want to destroy that too!

Republicans havent been at the helm in congress for 2 years and lost the last election big time. Medicare hasnt been starved. It is the biggest single outlay of non-discretionary spending in our budget.
 
Dec 30, 2004
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Lets just pass a law to make them treat them. After all, medicare is as good as any other insurance provider. Filthy greedy doctors.
And then we should tax them because they make over $250K. Nobody is worth more than 250K in my opinion, even if you stay in school until you're 32.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Funny my primary was griping about Medicare for some reason to me on the my last visit 2 weeks ago. We were talking about billing for blood work from the previous year and he asked if Medicare was picking up the tab then went on a rant about it.
I really bet it's because as the system is now, people are trying not to pay unless they have to. Granted, a social system will still have auditing, but if the assumption is that everyone is covered for everything, I bet some hassles are reduced.

I'm basically on the fence about it these days as to which system I actually like. I do better with the US' one as it is, but I am sympathetic to people out of work getting ambushed with a wicked bill just because the hospital thought that they truly had rung up $35k in services over the period of a week or something and a mild surgery.

 

winnar111

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Mar 10, 2008
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Funny my primary was griping about Medicare for some reason to me on the my last visit 2 weeks ago. We were talking about billing for blood work from the previous year and he asked if Medicare was picking up the tab then went on a rant about it.

Probably because his compensation for doing that blood work is at the level of a fast food worker.
 

Jack Flash

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Sep 10, 2006
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Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Genx87
Funny my primary was griping about Medicare for some reason to me on the my last visit 2 weeks ago. We were talking about billing for blood work from the previous year and he asked if Medicare was picking up the tab then went on a rant about it.

Probably because his compensation for doing that blood work is at the level of a fast food worker.

He doesn't do the blood work. A lab technician does.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
I think you kind of missed the point, winnar. This isn't about efficiency at all. It is about doctors opting-out because they want more $$. Billing medicare directly for a specific type of visit/procedure isn't any more cumbersome than dealing with a private insurance company. If anything, it is more straightforward.

Not according to them:

The doctors? reasons: reimbursement rates are too low and paperwork too much of a hassle.


Not surprising, of course. One of my Dermatologist friends was talking about how he was compensated a whopping $.50 by Medicare for administering injections, so he dumped those patients altogether.
Two trends are converging: there is a shortage of internists nationally ? the American College of Physicians, the organization for internists, estimates that by 2025 there will be 35,000 to 45,000 fewer than the population needs ? and internists are increasingly unwilling to accept new Medicare patients.

Seems like engineering companies solved their shortage of engineers problem with H1B visas, we need to bring in more foreign doctors, since our own medical education establishment is more interested in maintaining a doctor shortage to keep member pay high.
 

SammyJr

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Feb 27, 2008
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: SammyJr
All the results of Republican efforts to starve the beast. Things like paying full retail price for prescription drugs can really take a toll.

And concierge medicine, like private health insurance, is great IF YOU HAVE MONEY. Doesn't work so well for fixed income types on Social Security... but wait, you guys want to destroy that too!

Republicans havent been at the helm in congress for 2 years and lost the last election big time. Medicare hasnt been starved. It is the biggest single outlay of non-discretionary spending in our budget.

The Republicans had 6 years to do damage and you underestimate the power of obstruction and a Presidential veto. Not that the sissy Democrats don't share part of the blame.
 

SammyJr

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Feb 27, 2008
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Funny my primary was griping about Medicare for some reason to me on the my last visit 2 weeks ago. We were talking about billing for blood work from the previous year and he asked if Medicare was picking up the tab then went on a rant about it.

My father is a doctor and treats mostly elderly Medicare patients. He does quite well for himself. Most doctors do. Maybe your Primary just listens to Rush on the way into work.
 

SammyJr

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Feb 27, 2008
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Nobody said socialized medicine would give doctors more pay. It's not surprising they opt out of something that pays them less.

One way to pay doctors less is to forgive their student loans upon graduation. When you don't have to pay $250k+ back, it makes a huge difference.
 

SammyJr

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Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
paperwork too much of a hassle.

1. Doctors don't do Medicare paperwork. They have a billing staff or service that handles the paperwork. I provide some of the IT support for my physician father's office and his staff says that Medicare is one of the easier providers to deal with.

2. Medicare is almost 100% electronic billing at this point. Maybe these docs left Medicare years ago and the author of the article was just looking for someone to bitch.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Have the government build medical universities and turn out a few million doctors on scholarship in return for working 15 years in government hospitals. The cost of medicine will come down as the assholes who are in medicine for money starve away.
 

SammyJr

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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Have the government build medical universities and turn out a few million doctors on scholarship in return for working 15 years in government hospitals. The cost of medicine will come down as the assholes who are in medicine for money starve away.

We already have the first part down. Most major State Universities have medical programs.
 

Zedtom

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Nov 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
paperwork too much of a hassle.

1. Doctors don't do Medicare paperwork. They have a billing staff or service that handles the paperwork. I provide some of the IT support for my physician father's office and his staff says that Medicare is one of the easier providers to deal with.

2. Medicare is almost 100% electronic billing at this point. Maybe these docs left Medicare years ago and the author of the article was just looking for someone to bitch.

Medicare might be easier to deal with compared to the insurers and the HMO's, but it is not a piece of cake for those who have to do the billing. The people I know that deal with Medicare on a daily basis would laugh at your portrayal of 100% electronic billing. It is a DOS based system that requires a phone call to straighten out even the most minor issues.

 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
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Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
/snip
paperwork too much of a hassle.

1. Doctors don't do Medicare paperwork. They have a billing staff or service that handles the paperwork. I provide some of the IT support for my physician father's office and his staff says that Medicare is one of the easier providers to deal with.

2. Medicare is almost 100% electronic billing at this point. Maybe these docs left Medicare years ago and the author of the article was just looking for someone to bitch.[/quote]

Winnar's words, not mine. (fixed quoting) Otherwise I believe you are correct in your assessments.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
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There is too much medical regulation. Plus, malpractice lawsuits and insurance drive up costs for all kinds of doctors. We need to deregulate the medical industry and allow the market forces to bring costs down. More government is not the answer.
 

winnar111

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Mar 10, 2008
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Originally posted by: SammyJr
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
paperwork too much of a hassle.

1. Doctors don't do Medicare paperwork. They have a billing staff or service that handles the paperwork. I provide some of the IT support for my physician father's office and his staff says that Medicare is one of the easier providers to deal with.

2. Medicare is almost 100% electronic billing at this point. Maybe these docs left Medicare years ago and the author of the article was just looking for someone to bitch.

And what do you think happens when billing gets more complicated? You hire more staff, which cuts into your income...all for meager compensation.

Of course, since doctors lose money on several Medicare/caid procedures, they have to know what those are, and avoid them.