Do you use or do Distributed Computing? Why or Why not?

[narzy]

I'm wondering what the CPU guys think of Distributed Computing. It is a good way to stress a processor. I think a good benchmark when measured over time.

Is it because you just don't know what it is? Or that there aren't any projects that interest you?

 

[Rhoxed]

when i folded i found myself turning it off constantly to use resources for something else,

i also don't like the idea of my CPUs being pegged at 100% (not a big fan of the 600$+ electric bill in my little 2200sq/ft house ~_~, jumps quite a bit with all 3 comps going 100% 24/7)

 

[soccerballtux]

not seeing a poll?? Hehe....

I do not use DC; because my processor is overclocked and overvolted I do not wish to kill it. I always build my rigs with the intention of keeping them for 4 years; it just so happens that I upgrade every year/year and a half. However, now that I have a quad core, I don't see myself upgrading any time soon. Maybe in 3 years.

 

[richierich1212]

I don't because of the heat the computer generates and it wastes electricity

 

[narzy]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux
not seeing a poll?? Hehe....

I do not use DC; because my processor is overclocked and overvolted I do not wish to kill it. I always build my rigs with the intention of keeping them for 4 years; it just so happens that I upgrade every year/year and a half. However, now that I have a quad core, I don't see myself upgrading any time soon. Maybe in 3 years.

if you couldn't overclock stably with your processor at 100% for a long period of time I would hedge that you might be pressing the processor too far.

Why do most people run their computers 24/7? why not set up a sleep/hibernate time?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: narzy
I'm wondering what the CPU guys think of Distributed Computing. It is a good way to stress a processor. I think a good benchmark when measured over time.

Is it because you just don't know what it is? Or that there aren't any projects that interest you?

i started because of claims to "use the wasted cycles on your PC", I was young and ignorant and believed them (they still make those claims)... as I learned more I realized it is not true, and it keeps your PC from idling and decreases its lifespan while increasing temperature and power consumption (power being the biggest issue)..

eventually I sat down and did the math and saw it costs a ridiculous amount of money in electricity and stopped completely. I have never regretted that decision.

 

[narzy]

If there were a way to better manage the energy usage would that make a difference?

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: narzy
If there were a way to better manage the energy usage would that make a difference?

what do you mean by MANAGE? If it wasn't so expensive in electricity, then i'd be happy to do it. but unless our government decides to build a ton of new nuclear reactors, then energy cost will only go up.

 

[Markfw]

Originally posted by: richierich1212
I don't because of the heat the computer generates and it wastes electricity

I do, as F@H has proven results. I may be cured by the results it has found, by the time I retire, and probably get cancer.

Not a waste.

 

[narzy]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: narzy
If there were a way to better manage the energy usage would that make a difference?

what do you mean by MANAGE? If it wasn't so expensive in electricity, then i'd be happy to do it. but unless our government decides to build a ton of new nuclear reactors, then energy cost will only go up.

options built in to the client to say only work while the computer is active and to suspend after x amount of time of inactivity that you specify. Maybe even control when to sleep, hibernate or shutdown to save energy.

 

[theAnimal]

Originally posted by: Rhoxed
i also don't like the idea of my CPUs being pegged at 100%

You can configure the % of use.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: narzy

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: narzy
If there were a way to better manage the energy usage would that make a difference?

what do you mean by MANAGE? If it wasn't so expensive in electricity, then i'd be happy to do it. but unless our government decides to build a ton of new nuclear reactors, then energy cost will only go up.

options built in to the client to say only work while the computer is active and to suspend after x amount of time of inactivity that you specify. Maybe even control when to sleep, hibernate or shutdown to save energy.

which does not in any way decrease the cost per unit of calculation... it just means i only turn it on for short durations. Sure I could do the math and run it for X hours a month and it costs EXACTLY Y$. but that is not a reason for me to do it.

 

[Philippart]

Yes, I am supporting distributed computing and I think a lot more people should.

Some distributed computing projects help accelerate medical research and I think it's wonderful to see that in a selfish world a few of us help make a difference today and help many more people once the new treatement is ready.

My computers help find cures for cancer that YOU may use some day too!

About lifespan: the architecture of cpus was developped to make them run 24/7 at full load, their lifespan only gets noticeably smaller when you operate them at high temps or voltages.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: narzy
Is it because you just don't know what it is? Or that there aren't any projects that interest you?

For me personally I don't DC because I bought my computers with a purpose in mind that already occupies them 24/7.

Concerns over electricity costs are valid, but irrelevant to the vast majority of folks who are appreciably above the poverty line and don't live with their parents still (meaning they are beholden to someone else who pays their bills for them and so have to justify their cost footprint on the household budget).

In my region of Pennsylvania, a fully loaded Q6600 (ancient and power-consuming technology by today's standards) overclocked to 3.3GHz (and overvolted as needed to get there) runs me $15 a month in my electricity bill. If I had a modern 45nm processor, particularly an i7, undervolted and underclocked to give me the same number of WU output I imagine the bill would be substantially less than $10, maybe only $6 or $7.

Now a decade or two ago when I was in college the idea of "wasting" $15 a month on electricity versus buying a pizza and a beer would have been material for my friends questioning my priorities towards practicing procreation on a friday night...the kinds of chicks at my college were not uber excitable over teh computer talk, but they loved them some pizza come 2am last call. :laugh:

But now that I've got a couple more decades of life under my belt, a wife and kids, plus a father who is terminal with cancer, and a monthly income level today that dwarfs my annual income back in college...$15 a month is not even a blip on the itemized expense account or budget and if I had the extra hardware sitting here unused in my house I would have no issue firing it up and dedicating it to DC.

But that doesn't mean it isn't relevant to the fiscally challenged segment of society to which almost all folks in their teens and early twenties belong to for a while. It just means that when it comes to understanding/categorizing the various reasons people have against doing DC you need to factor in demographics of the responders.

I don't want to recklessly promote cross-posting, but it would be very interesting to me to see what the poll results and thread posts were like if this identical OP and poll was created in the DC sub-forum where the majority of people who will see the thread are folks who already do DC and then ask them somewhere in the OP to give feedback on whether they ever thought about the electricity costs or in general how they came to terms with it. My expectation is that the general response will be "its just $15 a month...you have any idea how much money I waste on my other hobbies a month?...$15 is an irrelevant cost adder to my budget".

(PS - this is not an anti-taltamir post, he just happens to be the one here who is voicing the appropriate concern over electricity costs, my post is intended to discuss the subject of how and when the topic of electricity costs itself is relevant to certain demographics but irrelevant to others, it is in no way intended to be a rebuttal against taltamir's stated position regarding electricity costs)

 

[taltamir]

Concerns over electricity costs are valid, but irrelevant to the vast majority of folks who are appreciably above the poverty line and don't live with their parents still (meaning they are beholden to someone else who pays their bills for them and so have to justify their cost footprint on the household budget).

Hundreds of dollars per year is not irrelevant no matter how rich you are. It might be acceptable, but not irrelevant...
Also, people keep on saying "cancer research". There are MANY DC projects out there, many of which don't have such well defined benefits (ex: seti@home). I assure you that folding was the LAST project I quit. If you are gonna argue for cancer cures, then state clearly that you are talking about protein folding, not DC in general.

Although I also happen to be a poor college student... (although I never buy beer, cigs, or pizza)

I Would like to point out that underclocking and undervolting a modern CPU to get the WU of an old one is... well, a waste in the relative scheme of things. DC is not a static thing, and as costs decrease, challenges tackled increase, requiring more power. Every year n, people contribute as much FLOPS as the entirety of the calculations done from inception to n-X. with X probably being 3 or 4 years. So the entirety of donations simply accelerates research by a few more years. And to be honest, it would be better to have specialized computational farms and donate 15$ a month to them, instead of running it on your own PC. Part of it is that people are not seeing the cost.

Electricy costs vary as well, (and cooling costs), and it can come up to much more than 15$ a month.

 

[GLeeM]

After I learned some programming, I saw how much a computer could do in a really short time. And here my computer was always turned on not doing much of anything. When I found out about Distributed Computing I thought here was something this device could do while just sitting there

Sure it uses up more electricity but it seems so worthwhile that I keep doing it.

I guess for me for most of the year it is just another space heater (40 degree F this morning and my fingers are a little numb and as I type this I reach my hand into the open side of the case to warm my fingers on the toasty GPU).
Most DCers cut back or stop during the heat of the summer. But if you are paying for heating during the winter why not use some of those dollars to do DC?

Originally posted by: Philippart
About lifespan: the architecture of cpus was developped to make them run 24/7 at full load, their lifespan only gets noticeably smaller when you operate them at high temps or voltages.

My dual Xeon LV 1.6@2.5 has done 24/7 for four+ years crunching.

I think most hardware problems are not with CPU.
For full disclosure, I have replaced cheap PSU and cheap cooling fans
I am learning to buy quality first!

Go TeAm!!

 

[taltamir]

But if you are paying for heating during the winter why not use some of those dollars to do DC?

Good argument. When calculating electricity costs I actually increase it during summer and decrease it during winter to account for cooling / heating adjustments. of course, where you LIVE makes a huge difference.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I do DC. Not on a grand scale like some people do, but I have a couple of machines running 24/7. The way I look at it - I need a computer running 24/7 anyways for my MagicJack to recieve calls, and I overclock, so that means that I disable power-saving features of my mobo/CPU (C1E/EIST) to ensure that my overclock is stable, so if I'm burning the juice anyways, might as well do something useful, and prevent those cycles fromg going to waste.

Btw, my electric bill (I live by myself) is around $80/mo in MA, although it was $110 last month, I have two ACs and it's been a little bit hotter around here. I leave my overclocked C2D on all the time, along with two routers, a switch, my phone, my printer, etc. I also used to have a second AMD64 non-overclocked rig running 24/7 too.

I have a quad-GPU folding rig in storage, but the reason that's not operating is limited space in my apt to connect computers, not because of the electrical cost.

 

[taltamir]

I do DC. Not on a grand scale like some people do, but I have a couple of machines running 24/7. The way I look at it - I need a computer running 24/7 anyways for my MagicJack to recieve calls, and I overclock, so that means that I disable power-saving features of my mobo/CPU (C1E/EIST) to ensure that my overclock is stable, so if I'm burning the juice anyways, might as well do something useful, and prevent those cycles fromg going to waste.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

Connect a power meter to your rig and see the difference in power draw from the wall with the DC on and off, it will blow you away.

 

[dguy6789]

If I made more money, I'd definitely DC. My electric bill is ridiculously high already. Maybe some time in the future...

 

[narzy]

Originally posted by: taltamir

But if you are paying for heating during the winter why not use some of those dollars to do DC?

Good argument. When calculating electricity costs I actually increase it during summer and decrease it during winter to account for cooling / heating adjustments. of course, where you LIVE makes a huge difference.

Do you have your number written down on how you calculated the costs? I'd be interested to see how you've done it. Did you use something like a kill-a-watt device to measure electricity load before and after DC?

Are you adamantly against the concept of DC? What would you like to see out of it that you are not currently?

I know that in the past some DC projects have tried to pay their participants for their time but I've never seen a dime from the projects that I have participated in.

You mention 'dedicated computing systems' to do some of the projects. one of the appeals of DC is that researchers don't need to invest in massive computing infrastructure to accomplish significant calculations that would usually take years to complete.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: taltamir

I do DC. Not on a grand scale like some people do, but I have a couple of machines running 24/7. The way I look at it - I need a computer running 24/7 anyways for my MagicJack to recieve calls, and I overclock, so that means that I disable power-saving features of my mobo/CPU (C1E/EIST) to ensure that my overclock is stable, so if I'm burning the juice anyways, might as well do something useful, and prevent those cycles fromg going to waste.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

Connect a power meter to your rig and see the difference in power draw from the wall with the DC on and off, it will blow you away.

Without C1E and EIST as helpers, I don't expect much of a difference between load and idle power.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: taltamir

I do DC. Not on a grand scale like some people do, but I have a couple of machines running 24/7. The way I look at it - I need a computer running 24/7 anyways for my MagicJack to recieve calls, and I overclock, so that means that I disable power-saving features of my mobo/CPU (C1E/EIST) to ensure that my overclock is stable, so if I'm burning the juice anyways, might as well do something useful, and prevent those cycles fromg going to waste.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

Connect a power meter to your rig and see the difference in power draw from the wall with the DC on and off, it will blow you away.

Without C1E and EIST as helpers, I don't expect much of a difference between load and idle power.

The difference is still huge.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: taltamir

I do DC. Not on a grand scale like some people do, but I have a couple of machines running 24/7. The way I look at it - I need a computer running 24/7 anyways for my MagicJack to recieve calls, and I overclock, so that means that I disable power-saving features of my mobo/CPU (C1E/EIST) to ensure that my overclock is stable, so if I'm burning the juice anyways, might as well do something useful, and prevent those cycles fromg going to waste.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS!

Connect a power meter to your rig and see the difference in power draw from the wall with the DC on and off, it will blow you away.

Without C1E and EIST as helpers, I don't expect much of a difference between load and idle power.

its actually quite large... Expecially F@H users who also do GPU.

The no difference is actually having C1E and EIST on to begin with.

At most that is very small... meaning short term, you wont notice it... long term, possibly.

 

[dennilfloss]

I used to (rc5 & SETI) but lost the spark after a few years. Time for others to carry the torch.