Do you trust oil life monitors in newer cars?

[exar333]

Most manufacturers use a break-in oil.

I don't think it matters much. Proper break-in depends on user input, not the oil in the crankcase. The idea that any oil can prevent proper break-in is a myth.

Some do, some don't. IIRC Honda and Ford use break-in oil pretty commonly. I did confirm Subaru does NOT for the WRX, not sure for their other vehicles. Just regular old M1 synthetic.

 

[Throckmorton]

The Honda dealer insisted I not change the oil before 7,500 miles on my 2005 Accord. They claimed there was special break-in oil in there that should not be changed out early.

I wonder if any manufacturers other than Honda use some type of break-in oil?

7500 mile break in??

 

[LTC8K6]

7500 mile break in??

Well, the Honda owner's manual usually says to leave the factory fill in there until the MM tells you to change it. Honda apparently wants the factory fill to stay in there a while.

 

[mgttr]

7500 mile break in??

Yeah, it sounds excessive but that's what the dealer claimed. I waited until 7,500 to change the oil the first time, and it didn't seem to have any negative effects. The engine never needed to have any oil added between changes and it ran perfectly for the rest of the time I owned it (78K miles).

 

[ultimatebob]

The oil life monitor on my 2007 MINI didn't tell me to change the original break-in oil in my car until 18,500 miles.

Yeah... I wonder how years I took off the life of that engine by following THAT advice.

Not that matters... I'm unloading that lemon as soon as I get it paid off.

 

[LTC8K6]

The oil life monitor on my 2007 MINI didn't tell me to change the original break-in oil in my car until 18,500 miles.

Yeah... I wonder how years I took off the life of that engine by following THAT advice.

Not that matters... I'm unloading that lemon as soon as I get it paid off.

Isn't the normal interval 15K anyway?

 

[ultimatebob]

Isn't the normal interval 15K anyway?

Well... the official interval is "when the car says so". I do it every 10,000 miles now.

 

[MovingTarget]

No. I don't even trust oil level indicators, much less oil life indicators. I check my oil level when I fill up, and change it every 3k miles. Its cheap insurance for your engine if you plan on driving it until the wheels fall off.

 

[Vic Vega]

Do you trust oil life monitors in newer cars?

Absolutely.

 

[Eli]

The oil life monitor on my 2007 MINI didn't tell me to change the original break-in oil in my car until 18,500 miles.

Yeah... I wonder how years I took off the life of that engine by following THAT advice.

Not that matters... I'm unloading that lemon as soon as I get it paid off.

LOL WTF?

There's no way that is okay. Most oil won't last 18k miles, let alone in a brand new engine(lots of contamination).

Nor should you let break-in particules circulate around your engine for 18k miles......

 

[Pacfanweb]

Direct injection excluded, there is tons of fuel in an EFI intake manifold, the runners are generally soaked in fuel.

But to play devils advocate, you don't think that in 30+ years there have been any appreciable advances in engine ring design, ring fitment, or crank case ventilation (which mitigates the impact of blow-by gases)?

Sure, piston rings have changed over the years.....lower friction, and higher heat resistance needed as a result of moving the top ring closer to the top of the piston. It has to withstand higher temps that modern engines run. I'd still say that the modern oils did more to make that possible....you couldn't run today's clearances and temps in a small block with 20w50 oil.

And EFI intake runners are NOT generally "soaked with fuel", not like a carb'd engine would be. EFI is what keeps the oil cleaner and has more to do with the oil lasting then ring design or the actual oil itself.
Put it this way: Put some modern oil in an old, carbureted car (that is in good operating order) and start running analysis on it. It won't last anywhere near as long, just as if you put a carb on a new Ford truck.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Another note: my Honda dealer actually refused to change the oil on our Fit at earlier intervals. They said to come back when the orange oil change light came on.

Question: Are the oil changes free, or do you pay for them? If you have a maintenance plan that covers oil changes, they can't do it early.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Bean counters. The engineers say it does X and the bean counters will ignore that and make shit up. It happens all the time. Every company is set up as some kind of struggle between engineers and everyone else. That's how we get marketing terms like "4D graphics" (playstation 3 marketing term)

Tow ratings fall into this category. Pure fantasy.

 

[JCH13]

Sure, piston rings have changed over the years.....lower friction, and higher heat resistance needed as a result of moving the top ring closer to the top of the piston. It has to withstand higher temps that modern engines run. I'd still say that the modern oils did more to make that possible....you couldn't run today's clearances and temps in a small block with 20w50 oil.

And EFI intake runners are NOT generally "soaked with fuel", not like a carb'd engine would be. EFI is what keeps the oil cleaner and has more to do with the oil lasting then ring design or the actual oil itself.
Put it this way: Put some modern oil in an old, carbureted car (that is in good operating order) and start running analysis on it. It won't last anywhere near as long, just as if you put a carb on a new Ford truck.

There is a remarkable amount of fuel in an EFI intake, though certainly less that a carb'd engine. If you don't believe me, look inside an ITB intake while it is running, or take apart an intake manifold immediately after shutting the engine off. This is what I have done. Everything downstream of the injectors will probably be wet with fuel, even dripping a bit. At first I was quite worried that something was amiss with the fuel system, but according to my automotive engineering professor, and the lab tech, both of whom have done years of dyno tuning and experiments, that was par for the course.

I won't argue that EFI doesn't help, it certainly does. The point in my original post is that EFI wasn't some magical innovation that made oil last forever, but simply one of several improvements that helped increase oil life. There are several other engine improvements that have helped, and I would definitely agree that better oils have helped to improve engine performance in many ways.

 

[hanoverphist]

none of my vehicles have that monitoring stuff in it, but the work truck i spent the last couple of weeks driving has it. chevy 3500HD has a sticker from last service, its been a month. says next one is in oct or 75k miles. theres 73k on it, and the oil change message just started yesterday. not sure if i trust it or not, but i know the shop will take it in for a change anyway. policy.

 

[dawheat]

I saw a couple threads on Civic and RDX forums where some owners got their oil analyzed after following the MID - from what I recall the oil was in good shape and it seemed that Honda was pretty conservative with their indicators.

Every manf is different, but I'd feel comfortable following it in a Honda.

 

[BUTCH1]

I saw a couple threads on Civic and RDX forums where some owners got their oil analyzed after following the MID - from what I recall the oil was in good shape and it seemed that Honda was pretty conservative with their indicators.

Every manf is different, but I'd feel comfortable following it in a Honda.

I only let mine get to 25-30% left when I change it, leave room for error on the safe side (GM)..

 

[Pacfanweb]

Everything downstream of the injectors will probably be wet with fuel, even dripping a bit.

Of course it will, but the injectors on most EFI engines are squirting right at the intake port on the head, so the vast majority of the intake is behind, or before/upstream from the injector, not downstream. Of course everything downstream is going to be wet, no doubt, that's where the fuel and air are ultimately heading.

(note that I am not talking about throttle body or CFI (Central Fuel Injection) engines, but port fuel injection.

 

[JCH13]

Of course it will, but the injectors on most EFI engines are squirting right at the intake port on the head, so the vast majority of the intake is behind, or before/upstream from the injector, not downstream. Of course everything downstream is going to be wet, no doubt, that's where the fuel and air are ultimately heading.

(note that I am not talking about throttle body or CFI (Central Fuel Injection) engines, but port fuel injection.

Then we're in violent agreement?

 

[LTC8K6]

Only sequential multiport fuel injection would be timed to the intake stroke and intake valve opening.

There was also a sequential central fuel injection system.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Only sequential multiport fuel injection would be timed to the intake stroke and intake valve opening.

So in other words, pretty much every car built today, and for the last 10-15 years.

 

[LTC8K6]

So in other words, pretty much every car built today, and for the last 10-15 years.

I have no idea. I think you need a cam position sensor for sequential. I'm sure it was around much earlier than that on some cars, and I'm sure some later cars don't use it.

For instance, it was on the 1984 Turbo Buick Regals, along with distributorless ignition.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I have no idea. I think you need a cam position sensor for sequential. I'm sure it was around much earlier than that on some cars, and I'm sure some later cars don't use it.

For instance, it was on the 1984 Turbo Buick Regals, along with distributorless ignition.

Fords have all had SEFI since the mid-90's. Some had it before that. Don't know about everyone else. I would assume that nobody is using regular EFI now, and for quite awhile.