Do you trust oil life monitors in newer cars?

[ShawnD1]

That's just ignorant. I'd wager that basically every engineer who works with cars, especially on engines, is a car guy/gal and they want to make the best car they possibly can. I say this having known quite a few, including a professor of mine in college who did engine design and testing for Chrysler.

Bean counters. The engineers say it does X and the bean counters will ignore that and make shit up. It happens all the time. Every company is set up as some kind of struggle between engineers and everyone else. That's how we get marketing terms like "4D graphics" (playstation 3 marketing term)

 

[JCH13]

Bean counters. The engineers say it does X and the bean counters will ignore that and make shit up. It happens all the time. Every company is set up as some kind of struggle between engineers and everyone else. That's how we get marketing terms like "4D graphics" (playstation 3 marketing term)

I don't know quite what you're trying to say, and if it relates at all to what you quoted from me...

 

[ShawnD1]

I don't know quite what you're trying to say, and if it relates at all to what you quoted from me...

You're saying that the instruction manual and the oil life gauge are designed by engineers. I'm saying they are not.

marketing: what's the recommended oil change interval?
engineering: if you change it every 6k miles, it will last forever
marketing: great, we'll write 7k in the instruction manual
engineering: but you'll fuck it up then
marketing: but it improves our numbers
engineering: the number of cars that fuck up?
marketing: it's all very complicated. you don't understand because you're not in marketing

 

[JCH13]

You're saying that the instruction manual and the oil life gauge are designed by engineers.

That is not at all what I said, or what I intended. You may have realized that if you carefully read and considered what I wrote before spewing a bunch of nonsense that is just recycled from what other people have already complained about.

I said " basically every engineer who works with cars, especially on engines, is a car guy/gal and they want to make the best car they possibly can." I never said anything about oil life gauges or instruction manuals. My point is simply that engineers in general, especially the ones I work with, take great pride in their work and do the best job that they can. They care about the car's performance even after it is out of warranty. They drive cars too ya know...

 

[BassBomb]

Yes mine is pretty good, but since I drive a ton I try to do it before it asks. I once went a bit past 0% and my my oil was a little low (according to the shop that changed my oil)

 

[Throckmorton]

My better half's Civic has the OLM thinger, I remember looking up how they worked and it's a calculation based on time, total engine revolutions, RPM, and temperatures IIRC. She usually gets 8-10k on a change and it's never been low on oil to my knowledge.



That's just ignorant. I'd wager that basically every engineer who works with cars, especially on engines, is a car guy/gal and they want to make the best car they possibly can. I say this having known quite a few, including a professor of mine in college who did engine design and testing for Chrysler.

If they love cars so much, they should come out publicly decrying the stretching oil change intervals.

 

[JCH13]

If they love cars so much, they should come out publicly decrying the stretching oil change intervals.

If such a thing is occurring. It may not be, and I don't think it is. I am not so jaded that I believe 7-10k is stretching oil changes with modern synthetic oil, modern filters, and modern engines. I'm inclined to believe that since the 1960s all of the technologies associated with vehicle oiling have improved to the point of 10k mile oil changes. Hell, if memory serves, some cars didn't even have oil filters then.

If you insist on taking the cynical approach, why not blame oil manufacturers and garages for suggesting OCIs that are too short?

 

[Throckmorton]

If such a thing is occurring. It may not be, and I don't think it is. I am not so jaded that I believe 7-10k is stretching oil changes with modern synthetic oil, modern filters, and modern engines. I'm inclined to believe that since the 1960s all of the technologies associated with vehicle oiling have improved to the point of 10k mile oil changes. Hell, if memory serves, some cars didn't even have oil filters then.

If you insist on taking the cynical approach, why not blame oil manufacturers and garages for suggesting OCIs that are too short?

But it's not 7-10k with synthetic oil and modern filters. It's 10k with conventional oil, 15k with synthetic (BMW), and no mention of filter in some (most?) cases. That means the average joe is going to take his car to Jiffy Lube and end up with a Fram filter or worse.

Mobil says to follow the manual and to do the shorter intervals if your car sees "severe service". That would be the statement that gets them in the least trouble because it's not a recommendation from them. AFAIK, no oil maker says to change your oil at 3000 miles.

I'd rather have the lube places sell the 3000 mi OCI, because changing your oil too soon isn't going to hurt. The "severe service" interval for my Jeep is 3000 mi anyway.

 

[Vette73]

^

Nope castrol still says 3000miles and 5000miles on Syn. They even try to get shops/tech to push the 3/5k change time frame to sell more oil.

Here is castrols page telling shops to sign people up to change their syn oil every 5k or 5months.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9024826&contentId=7046321


They still have places where they say 3000miles but also the "check owners manual...". So they try to play both sides but still push short changes.

 

[Throckmorton]

^

Nope castrol still says 3000miles and 5000miles on Syn. They even try to get shops/tech to push the 3/5k change time frame to sell more oil.

Here is castrols page telling shops to sign people up to change their syn oil every 5k or 5months.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9024826&contentId=7046321


They still have places where they say 3000miles but also the "check owners manual...". So they try to play both sides but still push short changes.

Good. I buy used cars and I'd rather have people doing 3000 mi changes than 15000 mi.

 

[Vette73]

Good. I buy used cars and I'd rather have people doing 3000 mi changes than 15000 mi.

I agree, I rather get a over taken care of car then under. But whens its my car it gets taken care of but not doing something that offers little to no extra protection/help.

 

[exar333]

Good. I buy used cars and I'd rather have people doing 3000 mi changes than 15000 mi.

This.

 

[JCH13]

But it's not 7-10k with synthetic oil and modern filters. It's 10k with conventional oil, 15k with synthetic (BMW), and no mention of filter in some (most?) cases. That means the average joe is going to take his car to Jiffy Lube and end up with a Fram filter or worse.

Mobil says to follow the manual and to do the shorter intervals if your car sees "severe service". That would be the statement that gets them in the least trouble because it's not a recommendation from them. AFAIK, no oil maker says to change your oil at 3000 miles.

I'd rather have the lube places sell the 3000 mi OCI, because changing your oil too soon isn't going to hurt. The "severe service" interval for my Jeep is 3000 mi anyway.

So one auto manufacturer (BMW), with a reputation for precision, performance, and 'doing things right' says 10k-15k. Why don't you believe them?

 

[Vette73]

So one auto manufacturer (BMW), with a reputation for precision, performance, and 'doing things right' says 10k-15k. Why don't you believe them?

 

[ShawnD1]

If they love cars so much, they should come out publicly decrying the stretching oil change intervals.

Calling out your employer - the best way to get fired

If you insist on taking the cynical approach, why not blame oil manufacturers and garages for suggesting OCIs that are too short?

Changing your oil too often is not a bad thing. If you change your oil every time you start the car, the thing will never have problems with degraded oil. It would just be a huge pain to deal with.

 

[JCH13]

That's their reputation, and BMW does make quite an amazing machine, despite its stereotypical customer... :awe:

 

[Vette73]

That's their reputation, and BMW does make quite an amazing machine, despite its stereotypical customer... :awe:

Only for fan boys. They, BMW, have reliability issues and are known for their high cost to keep once the warranty goes out.

Hell even a lot of BMW fans will admit that.

 

[JCH13]

Only for fan boys. They, BMW, have reliability issues and are known for their high cost to keep once the warranty goes out.

Hell even a lot of BMW fans will admit that.

I said "precision, performance and 'doing things right.'" I said nothing about low cost of ownership or low maintenance or high reliability.

BMWs are generally put together very well, with excellent fit, and with high-quality components and materials that have been well-tested. I call this 'doing things right'. They do compromise durability and/or price point for low weight and/or performance in some cases, like any other auto manufacturer. The difference is that BMW tends more towards high cost and high performance.

 

[SonicIce]

heres what u do. write the mileage and date down on a piece of paper after u change it and put it in your glove box

 

[Vette73]

I said "precision, performance and 'doing things right.'" I said nothing about low cost of ownership or low maintenance or high reliability.

BMWs are generally put together very well, with excellent fit, and with high-quality components and materials that have been well-tested. They do compromise durability and/or price point for low weight and/or performance in some cases, like any other auto manufacturer, the difference is that BMW tends more towards high cost and high performance.

1st vs 2nd does not match. Even you can't get it straight.

Fuel systems needing fuel pumps all the time, head bolts breaking, engines sludging, etc... is not "high-quality". I expect that out of a 70's GM car, not a 20XX 50k car.

 

[exar333]

Subaru says 7.5k for oil changes in the new WRX/Sti and Forester (all come with synthetic from the factory). I would not wait 7.5k for an oil change in a turbo-equipped vehicle, period. I will do ~5k on high-quality synthetic, which for me will be a little less than 2x a year.

With my Z, I only have 12k miles and i have owned this for 2.5 years. I have changed the oil 2x each year (spring and late fall) every year. Changing oil is cheap, don't push it.

On the WRX forums there are people who get their oil tested after 500, 1000, and 3000mi and sometimes after each interval (especially on a new engine) it needs new oil. You spend 10, 20, 30 40, or 50k+ on a car, why not spend an extra $30-40 a year and get 2 oil changes each year instead of 1? It's definitely worth the money if you plan to keep the car.

 

[JCH13]

1st vs 2nd does not match. Even you can't get it straight.

Fuel systems needing fuel pumps all the time, head bolts breaking, engines sludging, etc... is not "high-quality". I expect that out of a 70's GM car, not a 20XX 50k car.

I did not know that they were having such dramatic issues as of late, my mistake. You might have believed me in 2005 :sneaky:

Just took a look at the 3-series reliability on consumer reports, all the issues seem to have started on their latest platform, that's a shame...

 

[Eli]

Uh, no.

The ONLY way to tell if your oil is lubricating properly is to have it analyzed. That's typically why we change it at intervals that should be conservative...

I cringe at you people that leave your oil in the crankcase for a year. Yikes. You could be absolutely destroying your engine, and you wouldn't ever know it.

 

[MagickMan]

I go by the OLM, it usually works out to ~6-6.5k miles.

 

[Throckmorton]

So one auto manufacturer (BMW), with a reputation for precision, performance, and 'doing things right' says 10k-15k. Why don't you believe them?

More precision and performance should mean more frequent oil changes, not less.

I don't believe them because they have a vested interest in reducing their "free maintenance" costs, and zero interest in your car lasting past the warranty term.

BMW enthusiasts and mechanics say the 15000mi interval is too long.