Do you think Intel could destroy AMD in making video cards?

[NTMBK]

Looking forward to Broadwell K- hopefully the Iris Pro version will be powerful enough to handle modern games at 1080p without turning IQ way down.

 

[ShintaiDK]

wow you are right apparently it is real, but intel is so rich how come they can't do this? if they beat AMD in CPU why not do the same with GPU?

You dont throw good money after bad.

 

[Silverforce11]

apus are the future. once it can run games in 1080p on med settings, it will be main stream for sure = market share.

most apus can run games in low settings in 1080p now right?

APUs will remain specifically low-end gaming until they make a massive APU in die size (300mm2 on top of the CPU architecture), 200W with faster RAM technology that just isn't there.. and do it without being more expensive than the dGPU option.

 

[HeXen]

I have the Iris Pro on my Mac and it's actually a pretty good IGPU, I mean I don't think I otherwise wouldn't know it wasn't a discreet card of some sort. Runs Steam games like a dream.
Intel knows is an extremely expensive and competitive market to get into. Nvidia claims it costs billions just to come up with a new GPU and that's quite a risk for a first time venture not knowing if they'll even be able to cost effectively make one that outshines Nvidia or AMD's card. I don't think INtel's investors would even allow such an idea after the Larrabee debacle.

 

[john5220]

yeah but one question though

Why wasn't there intel Iris graphics in every i5 and i7? hell if you wanted to even see iris you had to buy a Mac.

Iris was the only thing to compete with the high end AMD APUs

 

[Silverforce11]

Why wasn't there intel Iris graphics in every i5 and i7? hell if you wanted to even see iris you had to buy a Mac.

Because its incredibly expensive for that weak performance.

It's a large chuck of the die and it required a big chunk of embedded vram. Unless the form factor or brand commands a premium, there's no way its competitive with mid-range dGPU due to price.

 

[ShintaiDK]

yeah but one question though

Why wasn't there intel Iris graphics in every i5 and i7? hell if you wanted to even see iris you had to buy a Mac.

Iris was the only thing to compete with the high end AMD APUs

Because it doesnt make sense. Same reason why AMDs own APUs lose in cost/performance to its own CPU+GPU options.

Iris Pro is for situations where low power consumption and small size is the key.

 

[hawtdawg]

Larrabee, google it.

Intel attempted and failed to produce a high end card

They were trying to make a GPU made out of tiny x86 cores, it was a long shot to begin with.

If Intel took their Iris Pro GPU, and made one comparable in size to one of AMD or Nvidias GPU's, given their process advantage, they would have no problems matching or surpassing AMD and Nvidia in every facet.

 

[ShintaiDK]

They were trying to make a GPU made out of tiny x86 cores, it was a long shot to begin with.

If Intel took their Iris Pro GPU, and made one comparable in size to one of AMD or Nvidias GPU's, given their process advantage, they would have no problems matching or surpassing AMD and Nvidia in every facet.

But it wouldnt bring in the required margins that Intels stockholders demand.

 

[hawtdawg]

But it wouldnt bring in the required margins that Intels stockholders demand.

I don't disagree, I'm just saying that they surely could if they wanted to. They basically have the technology to do it already.

 

[el etro]

Intel could doom AMD in graphic cards, but they don't want or need. It will still take some years(and much more money than AMD graphic division puts on R&D today) to do this, but they can do.

 

[Silverforce11]

But it wouldnt bring in the required margins that Intels stockholders demand.

You mean selling a mid-range ~300mm2 die at $600 or more is not enough margins? :/

And heck, those who believe if Intel made it, it would beat NV or AMD, then well, they can price it even higher.

Intel isn't gaining on mobiles and they have REALLY TRIED very hard. It's taken them a long time to match last-gen SOCs from Qualcomm & Apple on perf/w.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You mean selling a mid-range ~300mm2 die at $600 or more is not enough margins? :/

And heck, those who believe if Intel made it, it would beat NV or AMD, then well, they can price it even higher.

You forget how R&D and volume works. And how much of the market is willing to pay 600$

Also only nVidia is making money of the current 2 dGPU makers.

 

[TheSlamma]

wow you are right apparently it is real, but intel is so rich how come they can't do this? if they beat AMD in CPU why not do the same with GPU?

Maybe cause they want to stick with what they are best at instead of throwing money around "beating" everybody at everything

What is the obsession with "beating" everyone these days? Is this a side effect from you guys getting ribbons even for 8th place?

 

[tential]

yeah but one question though

Why wasn't there intel Iris graphics in every i5 and i7? hell if you wanted to even see iris you had to buy a Mac.

Iris was the only thing to compete with the high end AMD APUs

You're completely ignoring who the target market is.

Explain to me, again why anyone wants an AMD APU. Try and do that and you'll see why intel doesn't compete with high end AMD APUs. Try to recommend a High End AMD APU on any forum and watch yourself get torn to shreds.

This argument is similar to saying "Why doesn't Mercedes put 6 wheels on their cars so they can have the most wheels on their cars and beat all the other manufacturers!" Giving consumers something they don't need or want will not make them purchase your product. Intel focuses its efforts on power consumption of their CPUs to compete on the mobile market, and "just good enough" gpu performance to compete with Apple and Snapdragon. Competing with AMD's APU? Not a priority for anyone...

 

[Kallogan]

intel can beat everybody, they just allow others to survive

 

[Fox5]

Intel is getting close to wiping out mid range GPUs with their IGPUs, they don't really need a discrete card entry at this point. Maybe if Nvidia and AMD start to fail because Intel has taken away 80% of their markets then Intel will capitalize on that for an easy win with a single high end discrete project (targeted more at mobile but also available for desktop).

 

[rtsurfer]

You mean selling a mid-range ~300mm2 die at $600 or more is not enough margins? :/

And heck, those who believe if Intel made it, it would beat NV or AMD, then well, they can price it even higher.

Its hard to sell products at high margins when you are not a monopoly and you actually have competition.

Intel will need to blow Billions of dollars just to catch up with AMD & Nvidia.

 

[Enigmoid]

Just a note. Before you go around comparing intel's architecture and process you must address the elephant in the room. Drivers.

Intel's drivers are poor and not optimized for games to the extend that AMD and Nvidia optimize. If you want brute force architectural comparisons this handicap must be taken into account. With quality drivers I would not be surprised to see intel's igp 30-50% faster than it is not.

 

[KaRLiToS]

Why did you open two different threads for this discussion?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2408478
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2408479

 

[Silverforce11]

Intel is getting close to wiping out mid range GPUs with their IGPUs, they don't really need a discrete card entry at this point. Maybe if Nvidia and AMD start to fail because Intel has taken away 80% of their markets then Intel will capitalize on that for an easy win with a single high end discrete project (targeted more at mobile but also available for desktop).

Close?

A gtx770 or R285 class is now mid-range, or even towards low-end due to the prices at <$200.

 

[witeken]

Intel is only recently bringing their integrated GPUs to palatable status, so it'll be a while before they can compete with the big boys.

I'm sure Intel could make high performace motorcycles if they put enough money into it, but currently they have no idea how.

Making a fast GPU is extremely straightforward: add more cores. With recently I guess you meant in 2012 with Ivy Bridge. Intel simply didn't use more die space (and power budget) to add more EUs.

 

[Erenhardt]

Making a fast GPU is extremely straightforward: add more cores. With recently I guess you meant in 2012 with Ivy Bridge. Intel simply didn't use more die space (and power budget) to add more EUs.

Of course they use pixie dust to add more EUs

 

[witeken]

But it wouldnt bring in the required margins that Intels stockholders demand.

Yeah, you won't get high margins if you're using low density (but high performance) transistors. 14nm will make big IGPs more feasible.

 

[witeken]

Intel isn't gaining on mobiles and they have REALLY TRIED very hard. It's taken them a long time to match last-gen SOCs from Qualcomm & Apple on perf/w.

Intel's 32nm Atoms are very competitive against 28nm ARM SoCs. Peformance/watt isn't the issue.