Do you think Europe's problems with Muslims will be America's one day?

[umbrella39]

I'll give you that much - it doesn't seem to be the AAA squad that say, Minneapolis is turning into. Beyond that, go have a juice box in your safe zone.

I'll tell you what the next time you're on vacation if you're feeling brave enough to come up to Michigan I'll pay for you to have a guided tour of Greenfield Village. WE can walk the streets of East Dearborn eat their food talk to them shake their hands meet them and afterwards if you still feel that Dearborn is on Safe Haven of Muslim terrorists, sharia law, and no go zones, I'll refund your money for the cost of coming up here and pay for you to fly home.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Super weird eh.

Not at all
Since the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the war on terror, Islamic terrorism has risen
Comparing everyday Muslims with terrorists is like comparing murder to terrorism

 

[realibrad]

Not at all
Since the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the war on terror, Islamic terrorism has risen

So then what was the point of your post? Even if most Muslims are fitting into French society, The vast majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims. Why do you think 6-8% of the population committed about 85% of the reported terrorism in France? Why is France being attacked more than other European countries?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So then what was the point of your post? Even if most Muslims are fitting into French society, The vast majority of terrorist attacks are done by Muslims. Why do you think 6-8% of the population committed about 85% of the reported terrorism in France? Why is France being attacked more than other European countries?

All terrorist attacks are done by terrorists, that's why we call them terrorists
You can't compare normal people to terrorists

 

[dullard]

WTH does the one have to do with the other?

That terrorism and bombings occur in other religions and in other locations. Focusing on just one brand of terrorism is naïve at best.

 

[Knowing]

Germany just raided a salafist mosque. Seems like salafism and Wahhabist traditions are the most "problematic" for the west since they're "ultraconservative" (read: regressive).

So where are the global centers for these dangerous factions that are unequivocally incompatible with western ideals? Hint: one country in particular has been implicated in a number of attacks in the US.

My question is, and I'm admitting my ignorance here, why don't western Muslims decry the belief systems that produce attackers rather than the attackers themselves?

 

[MrA79]

That terrorism and bombings occur in other religions and in other locations. Focusing on just one brand of terrorism is naïve at best.

The IRA disarmed years ago. The Balkans wars are over. Like it or not, the focus is going to be on the most frequently reported type. That means Arab\African Islamists (and Chechnyan separatists in the past, but Russia demonstrated how to deal with them).

That basically leaves the Basques and the PKK, and you never hear about the Basques anymore.

 

[MrA79]

I'll tell you what the next time you're on vacation if you're feeling brave enough to come up to Michigan I'll pay for you to have a guided tour of Greenfield Village. WE can walk the streets of East Dearborn eat their food talk to them shake their hands meet them and afterwards if you still feel that Dearborn is on Safe Haven of Muslim terrorists, sharia law, and no go zones, I'll refund your money for the cost of coming up here and pay for you to fly home.

Been there, but that's very generous of you.

 

[realibrad]

All terrorist attacks are done by terrorists, that's why we call them terrorists
You can't compare normal people to terrorists

And all terrorists are people. And, there sure does seem to be a link in a single religion for terrorism in France. 85% of terrorist acts done by a group that makes up less than 10% of the population. The Muslims that do not do terrorist acts are not terrorists. But, when there is a terrorist attack, 85% of the time it is Muslims when in France.

Would it be wrong to look at solutions for terrorism that are Muslim specific?

 

[dullard]

The IRA disarmed years ago. The Balkans wars are over. Like it or not, the focus is going to be on the most frequently reported type. That means Arab\African Islamists (and Chechnyan separatists in the past, but Russia demonstrated how to deal with them).

That basically leaves the Basques and the PKK, and you never hear about the Basques anymore.

There are plenty more:
http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm
Yes, most are Islamists at the moment. But lets not fool ourselves into being concerned about only one front. That (a) means we will miss the next major problematic group and (b) just feeds the radical Islamists what they want to hear.

 

[realibrad]

Germany just raided a salafist mosque. Seems like salafism and Wahhabist traditions are the most "problematic" for the west since they're "ultraconservative" (read: regressive).

So where are the global centers for these dangerous factions that are unequivocally incompatible with western ideals? Hint: one country in particular has been implicated in a number of attacks in the US.

My question is, and I'm admitting my ignorance here, why don't western Muslims decry the belief systems that produce attackers rather than the attackers themselves?

Some do, but they have to twist the situation. What they say is that they are understanding the texts incorrectly. Its the same thing that Christians fought over a while back during its reformation.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Germany just raided a salafist mosque. Seems like salafism and Wahhabist traditions are the most "problematic" for the west since they're "ultraconservative" (read: regressive).

So where are the global centers for these dangerous factions that are unequivocally incompatible with western ideals? Hint: one country in particular has been implicated in a number of attacks in the US.

My question is, and I'm admitting my ignorance here, why don't western Muslims decry the belief systems that produce attackers rather than the attackers themselves?

Even the belief system of the Wahhabist terrorist needs to be based on defense
They need to preach that they are being attacked and need warriors to defend
Wahhabist followers are a very very small minority in Islam, there is like only 5 million total and you are going to have a hard time convincing them that they can kill innocents and still get to heaven
How does a good Christian drone operator reconcile with himself that killing a hundred women and children is worth it, and he is not going to hell?

 

[realibrad]

Even the belief system of the Wahhabist terrorist needs to be based on defense
They need to preach that they are being attacked and need warriors to defend
Wahhabist followers are a very very small minority in Islam, there is like only 5 million total and you are going to have a hard time convincing them that they can kill innocents and still get to heaven
How does a good Christian drone operator reconcile with himself that killing a hundred women and children is worth it, and he is not going to hell?

Because his goal is not to kill those people. But, I suspect the high suicide rate for drone operators rate has something to do with what you are talking about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/u...one-operators-air-force-must-cut-flights.html

I hope you are not trying to say that Christians are able to do that and be okay with it.

 

[zinfamous]

lolno.

Too many guns and too many rednecks.

Plus, the muslims that have been here for many, many have a long, long history of being well assimilated and generally tolerated in their communities--which lies in stark contrast to the history of immigrant communities in European countries and cities--basically the remnants of colonial experimentation and only allowed into those countries so long as they they remain "in their place." That had been going on for well over a hundred years now, with generations of outright prejudice and refusal of access to host country values, culture, services.

The USA has a long history of treating it's immigrants better, in comparison (obviously some very real dark times--not to discount any of the anti-chinese, irish, italian presence from generation to generation), but still, all of those communities assimilated. Hell, muslims have been in remote parts of Wyoming for well over a century and had established themselves for generations--probably alarming to some.

Of course there will be some problems here and there, but a lot of what seems to be happening with these loan wolf fucksticks in the USA claiming whatever they want to claim is an evolution of privileged suburban teen-angst, that really isn't that much different from the sort of kid that wants to shoot up schools for their own reasons. It's a problem that is very difficult to address, whether you call it bullying or Islamic extremism that lead to it, no matter what community you are dealing with.

The USA does not have sharia neighborhoods, and never will. We will certainly be dealing with the same type of jihadi-wannabee ostracized teens looking to wreak havok for whatever purpose they claim, but outside of blocking the internet for "suspect groups" (hello laws) or physically and digitally tracking "suspect groups" en mass, (oh yeah, laws again), there is only so much that can be done.

 

[realibrad]

lolno.

Too many guns and too many rednecks.

Plus, the muslims that have been here for many, many have a long, long history of being well assimilated and generally tolerated in their communities--which lies in stark contrast to the history of immigrant communities in European countries and cities--basically the remnants of colonial experimentation and only allowed into those countries so long as they they remain "in their place." That had been going on for well over a hundred years now, with generations of outright prejudice and refusal of access to host country values, culture, services.

Cheap shot, but maybe they are worried about cultural appropriation

But, very valid point.

The USA has a long history of treating it's immigrants better, in comparison (obviously some very real dark times--not to discount any of the anti-chinese, irish, italian presence from generation to generation), but still, all of those communities assimilated. Hell, muslims have been in remote parts of Wyoming for well over a century and had established themselves for generations--probably alarming to some.

The big benefit the US has is that we were flooded with immigrants as part of its origination. No doubt there was discrimination, but with more and more coming in, they kinda had to get over it. We did not have entrenched societies yet, and tons of mobility. Go USA.

Of course there will be some problems here and there, but a lot of what seems to be happening with these loan wolf fucksticks in the USA claiming whatever they want to claim is an evolution of privileged suburban teen-angst, that really isn't that much different from the sort of kid that wants to shoot up schools for their own reasons. It's a problem that is very difficult to address, whether you call it bullying or Islamic extremism that lead to it, no matter what community you are dealing with.

The vast majority of terrorists are males under 35. So, while its true that there appears to be a link with Islam, there is an even bigger link to young males. Being young, dumb, and full of cum is a bigger factor than religion. Would not mind some targeting there.

The USA does not have sharia neighborhoods, and never will. We will certainly be dealing with the same type of jihadi-wannabee ostracized teens looking to wreak havok for whatever purpose they claim, but outside of blocking the internet for "suspect groups" (hello laws) or physically and digitally tracking "suspect groups" en mass, (oh yeah, laws again), there is only so much that can be done.

A start is admitting there is a problem. Then, by looking at the links, we can tailored solutions. Bombing the Arab world will do next to nothing at best.

 

[Blue_Max]

Not much love for Jesus here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJBW49afzg

Most Christians don't like your street preachers either
They are a hateful shitty children terrorizing group

PLONK - you're not worth my time. Continue your trolling ignorant bliss and run to your safe space where the evil Muslims can't get you.

Wonderful display of SuperLeft world view. Give 'em concrete evidence what they believe is completely wrong, they'll just double down and scream their original position even louder.

"islam is peace!"
*provides overwhelming evidence it is not*
"I said islam is PEACE and you're an evil monster if you disagree!"

 

[umbrella39]

Been there, but that's very generous of you.

No problem. If you are ever up this way, pm me. The offer is open... Our motto, at least we aren't Detroit The real motto is: Keep Dearborn Clean which has it's own history when Hubbard was mayor. He counted on the Arabs is east Dearborn who lived on the border to Detroit to keep the "undesirables" out. That's it's own topic though...

 

[umbrella39]

To the people pissing and moaning about a city they have never visited but saw a youtube vidoe:

Hundreds of people in Dearborn are taking a stand against ISIS and terrorist attacks
http://www.wxyz.com/news/hundreds-o...ng-a-stand-against-isis-and-terrorist-attacks

Dearborn rally protests ISIS
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...11/28/dearborn-muslims-against-isis/76466230/

All these Arabs here since before 1900 and not one terrorist attack in or around my home town... I know more Muslims that have served proudly in our Armed Forces than I can count, they were born and raised here and are proud Americans. Ironically, they are more the target of threats than threats themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Dearborn_mosque_bombing_plot

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local-woman-apologizes-for-threatening-dearborn/36488440

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/10...rs-to-rally-saturday-outside-dearborn-mosque/

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/24/3725261/between-isis-and-anti-muslim-americans/

 

[hal2kilo]

lolno.

Too many guns and too many rednecks.

Plus, the muslims that have been here for many, many have a long, long history of being well assimilated and generally tolerated in their communities--which lies in stark contrast to the history of immigrant communities in European countries and cities--basically the remnants of colonial experimentation and only allowed into those countries so long as they they remain "in their place." That had been going on for well over a hundred years now, with generations of outright prejudice and refusal of access to host country values, culture, services.

The USA has a long history of treating it's immigrants better, in comparison (obviously some very real dark times--not to discount any of the anti-chinese, irish, italian presence from generation to generation), but still, all of those communities assimilated. Hell, muslims have been in remote parts of Wyoming for well over a century and had established themselves for generations--probably alarming to some.

Of course there will be some problems here and there, but a lot of what seems to be happening with these loan wolf fucksticks in the USA claiming whatever they want to claim is an evolution of privileged suburban teen-angst, that really isn't that much different from the sort of kid that wants to shoot up schools for their own reasons. It's a problem that is very difficult to address, whether you call it bullying or Islamic extremism that lead to it, no matter what community you are dealing with.

The USA does not have sharia neighborhoods, and never will. We will certainly be dealing with the same type of jihadi-wannabee ostracized teens looking to wreak havok for whatever purpose they claim, but outside of blocking the internet for "suspect groups" (hello laws) or physically and digitally tracking "suspect groups" en mass, (oh yeah, laws again), there is only so much that can be done.

Just like Hispanics, Muslims are really quite conservative. You know that family values thing that the Republicans trot out all the time. I strongly suspect that a majority of the assimilated Muslims actually voted Republican at one time but, that's all changed especially after Obama got into office and was being accused of being a secret Muslin sympathizer. Once again votes squandered/driven away by their party by courting the extremists of their party.

 

[bshole]

I think this proves my point that older Muslims living in America are definitely not a problem, they are fully integrated Americans. The drum I have been drumming is that Islamic immigrants coming into America now have been raised on a completely different brand of Islam which is incompatible with western secularism. It is a radicalized version. It has spread all the way to Turkey and taken down the single Muslim country that served as a beacon for secularism and science. It was taken down with the WILLING CONSENT of it's Muslim population who now PREFER theocracy and Sharia to secular modern society.

 

[Triloby]

Are most muslim in europe causing trouble? Recall that Europe has a muslim population of like 50 million.

Probably, probably not. It still doesn't explain why there are so many recorded cases of Islamic extremism happening in a first world nation like France over there.

Then again, some of the Muslims that I personally know, from where I live, are obviously not as cuckoo or as violent as those in Europe. The older ones are usually rather conservative, while the young ones are liberal. Not that surprising in the grand scheme of things.

One major difference is that they're South Asians (aka Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, etc.), while most of the Muslims I hear about in France seem to come from North Africa.

 

[agent00f]

That was a strange, simple, redirective non reply (like most of your responses). In fact, I think Im going always answer you in kind.

Here goes:

Choosey mothers choose Jiff because four out of five dentists recommend it. You should thank them.

He was being facetious, since the messiah which many aspire to was martyred for a great cause. Are you even christian?

Interesting. Well, lets look at the wiki article about terrorism in France in response to your link on a different wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France

France for 21 Century.

20 Terrorist attacks Total
17 Attacks were Islamic

2003 Not Islamic
2004 Islamic
2007 Not Islamic
2010 Not Islamic
2012 Islamic
2013 Islamic
2014 Islamic
2014 Islamic
2014 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2015 Islamic
2016 Islamic
2016 Islamic
2016 Islamic
2016 Islamic
2016 Islamic

Super weird eh.

If you can read the list from bottom, notice that they appear to be IS related. Also notice that you've been recently informed that terrorism is how poor people fight wars and that France has been actively fighting IS since 2013/2014.

Now try to put the 2 and 2 together here and see if you get anything near 4.

 

[SSSnail]

blah blah

Shoot the messenger, but not the message I see...

Anyways, so you're denying that none of the events reported on that page actually happened?

What about the recent incident where group of Muslims were brazen enough to smash up a bar because people were drinking in said bar because "Ramadant"? That's just a small example. It only take a few to enforce their will upon the rest, because apathy and cowardice. They're only so brazen, because they know the laws don't apply to them.

Probably, probably not. It still doesn't explain why there are so many recorded cases of Islamic extremism happening in a first world nation like France over there.

Then again, some of the Muslims that I personally know, from where I live, are obviously not as cuckoo or as violent as those in Europe. The older ones are usually rather conservative, while the young ones are liberal. Not that surprising in the grand scheme of things.

One major difference is that they're South Asians (aka Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, etc.), while most of the Muslims I hear about in France seem to come from North Africa.

He just can't comprehend that most Muslims are not terrorists, but most recent terrorist acts are perpetrated by Muslims. One does not preclude the other.

 

[bshole]

If you can read the list from bottom, notice that they appear to be IS related. Also notice that you've been recently informed that terrorism is how poor people fight wars and that France has been actively fighting IS since 2013/2014.

Terrorism is how AMORAL SOCIOPATHS fight wars. Specifically targeting innocent people just trying to live their lives is inexcusable on any level. It is disgusting, vile and a moral outrage.

 

[agent00f]

Germany just raided a salafist mosque. Seems like salafism and Wahhabist traditions are the most "problematic" for the west since they're "ultraconservative" (read: regressive).

So where are the global centers for these dangerous factions that are unequivocally incompatible with western ideals? Hint: one country in particular has been implicated in a number of attacks in the US.

My question is, and I'm admitting my ignorance here, why don't western Muslims decry the belief systems that produce attackers rather than the attackers themselves?

Those are strands of islam that happened to be funded both directly & indirect by the west. The house of saud was a major beneficiary of british colonialist (ie alignment against the ottoman empire), and the reason why their mosques are particularly prevalent in the west is due to a transactional relationship based on oil with the saudi Muslim World League.

Probably, probably not. It still doesn't explain why there are so many recorded cases of Islamic extremism happening in a first world nation like France over there.

Then again, some of the Muslims that I personally know, from where I live, are obviously not as cuckoo or as violent as those in Europe. The older ones are usually rather conservative, while the young ones are liberal. Not that surprising in the grand scheme of things.

One major difference is that they're South Asians (aka Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, etc.), while most of the Muslims I hear about in France seem to come from North Africa.

The main difference is that far more French muslims live in squalor which makes for a better recruiting environment, when someone feels they have nothing to lose. Even if not from the slums themselves, that injustice tends to be motivational. Consider that's also how (bloody) revolutions happen.