Do you think Europe's problems with Muslims will be America's one day?

[PingviN]

1) There aren't no-go zones. Certainly not like you have described them.

2) The terrorist problem isn't Muslims (look at the Irish Protestants vs Catholics bombings for 30+ years). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

3) The problem is demoralized people, usually without many jobs or hope, segregated into groups where it festers, wanting power and having none. It could have an ethnic twist, a religious twist (here is where the Muslim extremists come into play), a nationalistic twist (also related to the Muslim extremists), etc. But in the end, there are groups of devalued people who eventually act out in terrorism.

Yes, that can happen in the US. And many may argue that it has happened here. It'll be more likely to happen as long as people keep their blinders on thinking it is only an extremist Muslim problem. In fact, segregating out and demoralizing a group (such as Muslims) will only make the problem worse.

Nr3 is bullshit though, not only because there are several non-poor/segregated terrorists. This is a muslim problem for as long as muslims go to war in the name of Islam. In Sweden, we don't have this terrorists/foreign fighters problems with say Christian Syrians. Not saying it's because Christianity is a religion of peace, because we've got plenty of criminal networks run by Syrian families, but they don't blow themselves up or attack civilians in the name of God. I'm sure, in theory, a lot of criminal acts could be labeled as terrorism, but this large scale, organized, world-wide terror is exclusive to Islam.

Not saying all muslims are terrorists or that all muslims support terrorism, but let's just call a spade a spade. This is muslim terrorism and it can't be targeted by blanket solutions. It's specific.

 

[agent00f]

Nr3 is bullshit though, not only because there are several non-poor/segregated terrorists. This is a muslim problem for as long as muslims go to war in the name of Islam. In Sweden, we don't have this terrorists/foreign fighters problems with say Christian Syrians. Not saying it's because Christianity is a religion of peace, because we've got plenty of criminal networks run by Syrian families, but they don't blow themselves up or attack civilians in the name of God. I'm sure, in theory, a lot of criminal acts could be labeled as terrorism, but this large scale, organized, world-wide terror is exclusive to Islam.

Not saying all muslims are terrorists or that all muslims support terrorism, but let's just call a spade a spade. This is muslim terrorism and it can't be targeted by blanket solutions. It's specific.

As mentioned above islamic terror attacks are relatively uncommon at least in the US despite the supposedly rather popular chant of death to america.

But people tend to believe what they're told, and they're being told a lot as of late that islam is the real threat to the west. Before it was the soviets, and then the chinese for americans, so it's nothing new but evidently said people never wise up to it.

 

[realibrad]

As mentioned above islamic terror attacks are relatively uncommon at least in the US despite the supposedly rather popular chant of death to america.

That is to be expected though right? What % of the US population is Muslim?

But people tend to believe what they're told, and they're being told a lot as of late that islam is the real threat to the west. Before it was the soviets, and then the chinese for americans, so it's nothing new but evidently said people never wise up to it.

I don't see that as being true. Many on the right are worried about Muslim terrorism, but even they don't see it as being the biggest threat to the US. Some evidence to this would be to look at the Trump platform. With all the crazy shit he has said, Muslims are not the number one issue. Its up there for him, but not #1 for sure.

 

[bshole]

As mentioned above islamic terror attacks are relatively uncommon at least in the US despite the supposedly rather popular chant of death to america.

But people tend to believe what they're told, and they're being told a lot as of late that islam is the real threat to the west. Before it was the soviets, and then the chinese for americans, so it's nothing new but evidently said people never wise up to it.

I found this somewhere. Is it bullshit or the truth?

And as a 2014 study by University of North Carolina found, since the 9/11 attacks, Muslim-linked terrorism has claimed the lives of 37 Americans. In that same time period, more than 190,000 Americans were murdered

?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

 

[PingviN]

As mentioned above islamic terror attacks are relatively uncommon at least in the US despite the supposedly rather popular chant of death to america.

But people tend to believe what they're told, and they're being told a lot as of late that islam is the real threat to the west. Before it was the soviets, and then the chinese for americans, so it's nothing new but evidently said people never wise up to it.

Islamic terrorism is "relatively" uncommon everywhere except certain areas in the middle east. Is there a point here that I am missing?

 

[Triloby]

Have you also considered the possibility that the vast majority of muslims might not be blood thirsty jihadis like westerners which you rightly point out?

There's a rather odd perception in the west that slum-dwellers wouldn't prefer the middle class first world lifestyle if given the opportunity.

What the hell made you think that I believe that all Muslims are blood-thirsty murderers?

 

[agent00f]

I found this somewhere. Is it bullshit or the truth?

?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

Honestly I'm not going to research this in detail, because the discrepancy between perceived islamic violence and actual reality is so massive in the orders of magnitude and people on the other side so immune to facts that it would make no difference.

Islamic terrorism is "relatively" uncommon everywhere except certain areas in the middle east. Is there a point here that I am missing?

Is this not you?:

"I'm sure, in theory, a lot of criminal acts could be labeled as terrorism, but this large scale, organized, world-wide terror is exclusive to Islam. "

 

[realibrad]

I found this somewhere. Is it bullshit or the truth?

?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

Those numbers seem way off. Total homicides for 2013 was just over 16k

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf
page 10

That said, you cant really compare terrorism to murder rates.

 

[PingviN]

Is this not you?:

"I'm sure, in theory, a lot of criminal acts could be labeled as terrorism, but this large scale, organized, world-wide terror is exclusive to Islam. "

I don't know what you would call it, but I'm not sure we're at odds here. I'm disagreeing with the term "relatively", because acts of terror are rare, both in regards to other crime rate, but also in term of casualties or number of practitioners. Then again, crime is also "relatively" rare, depending on what you use as a baseline. It doesn't mean terrorism is not a big deal though, because it is. It's an attack of individual freedom as well as national security.

 

[agent00f]

That is to be expected though right? What % of the US population is Muslim?

There are literally millions of muslims living in US and maybe handful of actual terrorist attacks. People actually concerned about violent crime instead of pretending to would be looking elsewhere.

I don't see that as being true. Many on the right are worried about Muslim terrorism, but even they don't see it as being the biggest threat to the US. Some evidence to this would be to look at the Trump platform. With all the crazy shit he has said, Muslims are not the number one issue. Its up there for him, but not #1 for sure.

I enter into evidence the threads & focus of discussion here. Hating on muslims seems to have an edge on mexicans.

What the hell made you think that I believe that all Muslims are blood-thirsty murderers?

Has this forum been hacked or something?

You just above:
"Hell, the only reason why Muslims aren't going out in full rampage out here in America "

 

[agent00f]

I don't know what you would call it, but I'm not sure we're at odds here. I'm disagreeing with the term "relatively", because acts of terror are rare, both in regards to other crime rate, but also in term of casualties or number of practitioners. Then again, crime is also "relatively" rare, depending on what you use as a baseline. It doesn't mean terrorism is not a big deal though, because it is. It's an attack of individual freedom as well as national security.

I say relatively rare compared to all instances of terrorism as compiled by the fbi, as linked and mentioned previously.

That said, you cant really compare terrorism to murder rates.

That's true enough, one can't be sold nearly as well as the other. Humans in general are pretty terrible at statistically thinking, which better salesmen use to their advantage.

 

[Triloby]

Has this forum been hacked or something?

You just above:
"Hell, the only reason why Muslims aren't going out in full rampage out here in America "

Again, when did I ever imply that all Muslims in America are terrorists? I was making a point about why most Muslims in America aren't causing so much trouble compared to those in Europe, and the differences in how we expect all immigrants in America are to adapt to American laws and culture.

 

[agent00f]

Again, when did I ever imply that all Muslims in America are terrorists? I was making a point about why most Muslims in America aren't causing so much trouble compared to those in Europe, and the differences in how we expect all immigrants in America are to adapt to American laws and culture.

Are most muslim in europe causing trouble? Recall that Europe has a muslim population of like 50 million.

 

[PingviN]

I say relatively rare compared to all instances of terrorism as compiled by the fbi, as linked and mentioned previously.

Domestic, to begin with, secondary, it depends on how wide the definition is. Threatening to blow people up can be terrorism, but blowing people up is also terrorism. The two are not equal. And the report does not take into account threats of terrorism from outside the US, against the US.

 

[agent00f]

Domestic, to begin with, secondary, it depends on how wide the definition is. Threatening to blow people up can be terrorism, but blowing people up is also terrorism. The two are not equal. And the report does not take into account threats of terrorism from outside the US, against the US.

Sure, I guess if include every time some muslim gets uppity it would be more, but then we have to compare that to the count of every time some black person or other minority gets uppity which according to conservatives is quite/too often.

 

[spacejamz]

This thread makes me want to watch the first few seasons of 24 again followed up by Executive Decision...

 

[realibrad]

There are literally millions of muslims living in US and maybe handful of actual terrorist attacks. People actually concerned about violent crime instead of pretending to would be looking elsewhere.

No. The presumption you are making is that murderers are murderers and the impact is the same. What makes terrorism a big fear, Muslim or otherwise, is that the goal is to do as much damage as possible. A guy who kills his wife does not care about a family in CA who is gay. A terrorist is driven to do as much damage as possible to cause as much disruption as possible.

I am concerned about crime personally. I think if we could address say, the murder rate in the black community, it would go a long way in helping that community grow and flourish which would be good for us all. I am also concerned about terrorism. I can say that terrorism right now is a lesser concern than over all murder as well.

I enter into evidence the threads & focus of discussion here. Hating on muslims seems to have an edge on mexicans.

This is such a dumb cop out. Islamic terrorism is a legitimate concern. Just because you think its not as big as other issues, does not mean it should be ignored either. Are you trying to say that any discussion about Islamic terrorism is dumb because we have bigger issues?
[/QUOTE]

 

[PingviN]

Sure, I guess if include every time some muslim gets uppity it would be more, but then we have to compare that to the count of every time some black person or other minority gets uppity which according to conservatives is quite/too often.

My point is that the term terrorism can include baseless threats made in a fit of rage and while that still being terrorism, I prefer that kind of terrorism over planned and organized attacks like the Boston bombings, the attack on Bataclan or the most recent attack in Nice.

 

[Fern]

The muslim population in france is due in large part to import of cheap labor
-snip-

Don't think so.

When Algeria won its independence France allowed those Algerians who were 'loyal' to it to migrate to France so they wouldn't be killed.

And over the years those Algerians were allowed to sponsor their relatives as immigrants.

Now Germany had to import labor (Turkish) for the reconstruction following WWII. Not many German males left for construction etc.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snip-
2) The terrorist problem isn't Muslims (look at the Irish Protestants vs Catholics bombings for 30+ years). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

How does the fact that in (approx) 1600 Scottish settlers were sent by the English to displace the Irish and take their land for themselves in an effort by England to finally control and claim Ireland and the resulting centuries of animosity and violence prove that "the terrorist problem isn't Muslim"? (See the Plantation of Ulster.)

Basically it's a conquered people still fighting for their political aspirations (join free Ireland and dump England).

WTH does the one have to do with the other?

Fern

 

[SSSnail]

Let me put it as briefly as possible just how dumb this kind of source is.

Exhibit A:

"The American cable television channel Fox News has also issued at least four apologies for referring to Muslim no-go zones in Europe, after one commentator erroneously claimed that the entire city of Birmingham, England, was Muslim. Had he simply said that "parts" of Birmingham are Muslim, he would have been correct. Despite such politically correct denials, Muslim no-go zones are a well-known fact of life in many parts of Europe."

Exhibit B (like 2 paragraphs latter):

"Europe 1, one of the leading broadcasters in France, has referred to Marseille as a "no-go zone" after the government was forced to deploy riot police, known as CRS, to confront warring Muslim gangs in the city. "

Here, let me add the sentence that you conveniently left out, it was the next sentence. " The French Interior Ministry said it was trying to "reconquer" 184 square kilometers (71 square miles) of Marseille that have come under the control of Muslim gangs."

----

It's simply a fact you're not great at putting 2 and 2 together so let's walk through this. First, it's pretty obvious the author has never actually been to europe or ever read anything about it for that matter, so this is just like those people who've never taken physics argue about climate.

Second, in A he apologizes for his peers in this regard, as if meeting someone who has no fucking clue in the middle is a sound basis for analysis.

Third, and this is the most egregious bit in a crime-spree against logic, he goes right on to make the exact same error he was just apologizing for. Clearly he thinks of "Marseille" in the same way that Fox retard thinks of "Birmingham".

Another error in the same sentence is not surprisingly the same one you continue to make in not reading (or comprehending) the link provided that explains what "no-go zone" actually refers to in france instead of the mistranslation by people with nonexistent language skills.

---

In conclusion, these are among the dumbest shits on the planet who've managed to convince themselves that they're onto some conspiracy. There's generally no hope for them due to the nature of dumbshittery.

Despite the many links in that page pointing you to actual and factual reports, you're still blind. Putting 2 and 2 together? Climate and physics? Try reading first.

Oh, a blurb about the author's biography of that page you didn't read.

I graduated with a degree in diplomacy and international security from the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University in Washington DC, and also studied Middle Eastern history and geopolitics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

I have visited more than one hundred countries, including all of those in Europe and most of those in the Middle East. The most fascinating place I have ever been to is Iran, a country rarely seen by outsiders and enchanting beyond belief. It is home to astonishing landscapes, truly amazing food, and some of the most hospitable people in the world.

I am a dual citizen of the United States and Germany. I am fluent in English, German and Spanish, and have a working knowledge of Dutch, French, Italian and Portuguese. I am married to my best friend Mónica and we feel equally at home in both Spain and America.

Talk about dumbshittery.

http://soerenkern.com/about/

 

[FelixDeCat]

Until today I did not even know of "Dearbornistan" in America.

 

[JSt0rm]

Until today I did not even know of "Dearbornistan" in America.

The city is a nightmare for all freedom loving Americans.

"Freedom can go to Hell."



Now I have seen everything.

That photo is from the uk. It even says so in the link. lmao. The internet makes us dumb because we can always find what we are looking for.

 

[1prophet]

If Islam was held to the same secular standard as other religions there would be no more problem with Islam than any other religion today in western countries.

For example,

This is considered art and we tell Christians who are offended to go pound salt.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-in-italy-deemed-too-racy-for-irans-president
In contrast we cover up art in order not to offend Muslims.

 

[umbrella39]

That photo is from the uk. It even says so in the link. lmao. The internet makes us dumb because we can always find what we are looking for.

Don't confuse the true believers with facts... FFS We are the home of Ford Motor Company. Dearborn is still a very nice town to live in and raise a family. My in-laws still live in the East end behind Fordson High School and have never in their 40 years of living in their home have the ever had a problem with the Arabs, Muslim, Christian or otherwise. It's fun to read the rantings of fucktards who have never been to Dearborn but are convinced the other morons who have also never been here who write their bullshit about the city are correct...