Do you think college/university degrees are necessary?

[Farmer]

A physics degree probably would have taught me a ton, but how would that be any good for my career? It wouldn't apply to anything I do.

I mean what do you define as a career, something that pays you lots of money, or something that you enjoy and find interesting? There are plenty of physicists that make and living and do what they love.

I can guarantee you, of the physics or math majors I know, those who are not going to grad school, find some of the highest paying jobs. It's either research at a government research lab, which is at minimum $60K fresh out, or in the finance sector, in which case the sky is the limit.

Because the hard sciences are challenging, they attract the smartest people. In the end, you're right, employers don't care about your degree that much. They care about your intelligence and your work ethic. A degree is just a representation of that, so as a result they care about your degree.

 

[HAL9000]

The point is that the degree did NOTHING in itself to advance my career. My knowledge and experience did that. If I had the degree, but wasn't good at my job, it wouldn't matter that I had a degree, I'd be fired. I don't see why you can't see the issue here.

Why did you do the degree then? If it doesn't help your career, doesn't higher your earning potential? and you for some inexplicable reason chose a subject that you know everything about, why study it at all?!

 

[vi edit]

Literally none of this, not a single word of it validates your point that degrees are useless. You don't like the fact that... you don't see why... you didn't do it wrong... blah blah blah none of that means that degrees are useless. You yourself have found it useful to advance your career! I have literally no idea why you are continuing to try and make this point without any validation for it.

His point is that a degree outside of select industries like Engineering does not provide any real meaning or merit that he is capable of performing a job or duty. Yet it's a requirement for entry into many markets.

It's a lot like a drivers license. At least in the US a drivers license in no way really represents ones actual ability to drive responsibly. Just that you can pass a couple simple driving tests and a couple dozen questions. But yet it's required to legally operate vehicle.

 

[Numenorean]

I mean what do you define as a career, something that pays you lots of money, or something that you enjoy and find interesting? There are plenty of physicists that make and living and do what they love.

I can guarantee you, of the physics or math majors I know, those who are not going to grad school, find some of the highest paying jobs. It's either research at a government research lab, which is at minimum $60K fresh out, or in the finance sector, in which case the sky is the limit.

Because the hard sciences are challenging, they attract the smartest people. In the end, you're right, employers don't care about your degree that much. They care about your intelligence and your work ethic. A degree is just a representation of that, so as a result they care about your degree.

I'm sure that the pay is fine for that - but I would hate that as a career. I prefer to enjoy my work. That I wouldn't enjoy at all. So I would never use that degree to get a job in that field.

 

[PimpJuice]

Numenoreans lack of common sense is no longer surprising.

 

[Numenorean]

Why did you do the degree then? If it doesn't help your career, doesn't higher your earning potential? and you for some inexplicable reason chose a subject that you know everything about, why study it at all?!

Simply because it would remove a barrier to entry into a market. That is the SOLE reason. Which is bullshit.

I have no problem with people getting the same degree I have where the program actually DOES teach them what they need. It's not a bad program, and there is plenty of relevant information that was taught. It just wasn't helpful to me as far as expanding my knowledge of the subject.

 

[Numenorean]

Numenorean says some of the most idiotic things I've ever read in his posts. His lack of common sense is no longer surprising. Heck, even Hal900 is owning him in this argument.

I'm sorry that you aren't intelligent enough to understand.

 

[HAL9000]

His point is that a degree outside of select industries like Engineering does not provide any real meaning or merit that he is capable of performing a job or duty. Yet it's a requirement for entry into many markets.

It's a lot like a drivers license. At least in the US a drivers license in no way really represents ones actual ability to drive responsibly. Just that you can pass a couple simple driving tests and a couple dozen questions. But yet it's required to legally operate vehicle.

I understand the point his making, but that doesn't detract from the fact that having a drivers licence or degree is useful. Whether the need for the degree or licence is absurd or not is irrelevant to the utility of the license / degree.

I.e. Regardless of whether or not a drivers licence makes you a better driver or more able to drive the car, having a drivers licence is useful.

 

[HAL9000]

Simply because it would remove a barrier to entry into a market. That is the SOLE reason. Which is bullshit.

I have no problem with people getting the same degree I have where the program actually DOES teach them what they need. It's not a bad program, and there is plenty of relevant information that was taught. It just wasn't helpful to me as far as expanding my knowledge of the subject.

So because you don't like the use a degree has in your life it is useless? That doesn't work.

A degree isn't about being taught what you need, it's about being taught what you wan't to learn.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

The point is that the degree did NOTHING in itself to advance my career.

Ok, that's nice. Thanks for sharing. My degrees are absolutely necessary for my career. Isn't it astonishing how different people have different life experiences and value different things differently?!

Then again, I wouldn't expect someone who dismisses the expertise of a university instructor as 'bias-adding windbags' to understand something so simple.

 

[HAL9000]

Numenorean says some of the most idiotic things I've ever read in his posts. His lack of common sense is no longer surprising. Heck, even Hal900 is owning him in this argument.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

What's the point of a degree when there's no jobs to apply them to?

 

[HAL9000]

You win.

 

[Farmer]

What's the point of a degree when there's no jobs to apply them to?

To learn? To pursue your interests? Possible reasons.

 

[HAL9000]

What's the point of a degree when there's no jobs to apply them to?

To learn. To advance your understanding of a subject. To improve your skills. The list goes on.

 

[Numenorean]

To learn. To advance your understanding of a subject. To improve your skills. The list goes on.

Easily done without paying to get a degree.

 

[HAL9000]

Easily done without paying to get a degree.

Yep, a degree is one of the many useful ways of learning.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

I have a masters degree. Big deal. It is meaningless to me, because what I do today has nothing whatsoever to do with what I studied. ...

That's your own fault.

 

[SP33Demon]

Simply because it would remove a barrier to entry into a market. That is the SOLE reason. Which is bullshit.

I have no problem with people getting the same degree I have where the program actually DOES teach them what they need. It's not a bad program, and there is plenty of relevant information that was taught. It just wasn't helpful to me as far as expanding my knowledge of the subject.

People who really love what they do always want to learn more about it. In your case, you claim to have known everything already which is a very rare case. It seems that you should go on to the Masters/PhD level which would: a) help you learn more that you don't know, and b) remove even more barriers to entry and broaden future job possibilities. If you choose to go such a route, then your bachelor's wasn't useless since it allowed you to take grad courses which would expand your knowledge.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

To learn. To advance your understanding of a subject. To improve your skills. The list goes on.

Some people consider learning and knowledge ends in themselves. Others consider them only means to an end.

Earning a degree from a tech school, community college, or university isn't the only way to learn, but it is arguably the best way to learn many subjects, at least if you think the best way to learn is from an expert.

I think a lot of the frustration and bitterness in this thread stems from resentment of the traditional four year university degree - many people see it as being 'forced to learn about shit you don't care about to get a job that has nothing to do with this or that class.'

What these people don't understand is that a long time ago, the only people who attended university were the very wealthy and the very bright. The very wealthy acquired an education because they had the idle time to do it and didn't need to work, and the very bright went to university because they liked learning (and the very wealthy paid for them to go in the form of scholarships).

Middle class folks who were reasonably intelligent didn't go to university because they could earn a middle class living without needing a four year degree, and they either couldn't afford to go, or just weren't that interested in going. A lot of these people went to trade schools instead, back when Americans did things like welding, before most of those jobs got offshored.

It's essentially no longer possible to have a middle class job without any sort of degree unless you're willing to perform a dangerous, or dirty, or otherwise shitty job that's only appealing because of its pay. Many middle class jobs that required only a high school education or technical degree simply no longer exist. And now because of social engineering, everyone can 'afford' to go to university via loans. 18 year olds are told to go to university otherwise they'll never get a good job if they don't. They enter university without the maturity to realize they're making an enormous investment of time and money, and they're told to pursue their dreams regardless of economic realities - if they even have any dreams at all.

I'm as invested in the university system as anyone can be, but to be honest, our current higher ed model is unsustainable. There are too many people in my classes who are not intelligent enough and/or not interested enough, who should instead be in trade schools - but again, where are those jobs? The only growth industry where a technical degree is sufficient seems to be IT, because as computer hardware and software evolve, it's becoming very apparent that many IT jobs can be performed with a technical degree rather than four year university degree. I fear that IT's insufficient, though. Technology is absolutely one of the factors widening the gulf between the haves and have nots in the US, along with offshoring.

 

[HAL9000]

Some people consider learning and knowledge ends in themselves. Others consider them only means to an end.

Earning a degree from a tech school, community college, or university isn't the only way to learn, but it is arguably the best way to learn many subjects, at least if you think the best way to learn is from an expert.

I think a lot of the frustration and bitterness in this thread stems from resentment of the traditional four year university degree - many people see it as being 'forced to learn about shit you don't care about to get a job that has nothing to do with this or that class.'

What these people don't understand is that a long time ago, the only people who attended university were the very wealthy and the very bright. The very wealthy acquired an education because they had the idle time to do it and didn't need to work, and the very bright went to university because they liked learning (and the very wealthy paid for them to go in the form of scholarships).

Middle class folks who were reasonably intelligent didn't go to university because they could earn a middle class living without needing a four year degree, and they either couldn't afford to go, or just weren't that interested in going. A lot of these people went to trade schools instead, back when Americans did things like welding, before most of those jobs got offshored.

It's essentially no longer possible to have a middle class job without any sort of degree unless you're willing to perform a dangerous, or dirty, or otherwise shitty job that's only appealing because of its pay. Many middle class jobs that required only a high school education or technical degree simply no longer exist. And now because of social engineering, everyone can 'afford' to go to university via loans. 18 year olds are told to go to university otherwise they'll never get a good job if they don't. They enter university without the maturity to realize they're making an enormous investment of time and money, and they're told to pursue their dreams regardless of economic realities - if they even have any dreams at all.

I'm as invested in the university system as anyone can be, but to be honest, our current higher ed model is unsustainable. There are too many people in my classes who are not intelligent enough and/or not interested enough, who should instead be in trade schools - but again, where are those jobs? The only growth industry where a technical degree is sufficient seems to be IT, because as computer hardware and software evolve, it's becoming very apparent that many IT jobs can be performed with a technical degree rather than four year university degree. I fear that IT's insufficient, though. Technology is absolutely one of the factors widening the gulf between the haves and have nots in the US, along with offshoring.

I appreciate that, but while I'm not arguing for the current Higher education system, which I too believe to be flawed in some areas, what I am arguing for is that higher education has value, both in terms of advancing learning and proving to employers that you have the knowledge you claim to have.

That being said I also believe that the American Higher education system is more flawed than in other parts of the world purely because of the huge amount of money it costs to do a degree over there, leading people to the conclusion that they should get a degree relevant to their career to maximise income, when IMO a person should get a degree to learn something they are interested in, but when the costs are so high people are thinking about a ROI and so disregarding things that employers may view as trivial such as subjects not directly related to their career path.

While I also agree that a degree should not be a pre-requisite for getting the job you are applying for unfortunately that is not the case with many jobs, and I understand peoples frustration with that, it does not remove the intrinsic value of higher education.

 

[TheNinja]

Yes. I believe it shows that you are willing to work and learn. Plus, I recommend a 4 year degree b/c you get a lot of general classes as well. They make you a more well rounded person.
Plus why WOULDN'T you want to go to a 4 year college/university? They can be some of the best 4 years of your life. Where else do you get to hang around tons of people your age who are all looking to have fun, make friends, etc.

 

[SaDiZTiKStyLeZ]

To learn? To pursue your interests? Possible reasons.

To learn. To advance your understanding of a subject. To improve your skills. The list goes on.

I'm finding alot of what I learned, I've forgotten over time. I still do brush up when I'm not on the hunt. But it's not that helpful when not putting information to use, thus absorbing it more easily. And difficult to study for new potential positions, when I don't know what knowledge any random jobs' duties would require.
Only so much I can learn without being in a business environment. I'm waiting to find steady employment, move out & accomplish a few other goals before going back for BA. But at this point, I don't know if I want to further my education in IT.
Have had a desire to delve more deeply into project or business management. Was planning to with one of my companies, but they canned me before got too much into it. Did have alot of fun being Assist Project Manager for that short time though.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

That being said I also believe that the American Higher education system is more flawed than in other parts of the world purely because of the huge amount of money it costs to do a degree over there...

I have to chuckle at this - no offense - but the fact that we pay for our higher eds mostly out of our pockets doesn't make the cost of higher ed more expensive in the US. From what I gather speaking with colleagues in the UK, Germany, and Australia, actual cost of running schools is similar - but outside of the US schools are massively subsidized by taxpayers, and tax burden in Europe is much higher than in the US. So, students aren't directly paying for higher ed like in the US, but I assure you, someone else is. There's no such thing as a free degree, unless you're really, really good at something - and this is not most people, ha.

While I also agree that a degree should not be a pre-requisite for getting the job you are applying for unfortunately that is not the case with many jobs, and I understand peoples frustration with that, it does not remove the intrinsic value of higher education.

Apparently some people think reading a book is as valuable as learning from experts in person as well as getting your hands dirty in a lab or in the field.